Woman attacked by dogs and killed in Liverpool
- Thread starter skinnydipper
- Start date
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
Not another one 
Wonder if they were family dogs as it says she was in the house .. it’s terrible this keeps on happening
Wonder if they were family dogs as it says she was in the house .. it’s terrible this keeps on happening
ArklePig
Well-Known Member
For FFS. Correct me if I'm wrong but there seems to be a lot more this year than normal? Horrible, that poor woman.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
That’s awful. Can you imagine the scene? I dare say more facts will come to light.
Smitty
Well-Known Member
Bbc headlines now: 5 American Bulldogs destroyed and their 31 YO owner held in custody for being in charge of dangerously out of control dogs.
bonny
Well-Known Member
Does make me wonder what it would take for bullies to be banned .....just crazy that the numbers in our midst are increasing all the time. Seems this woman and her son were breeding them, what on earth makes people want to own them ?
Starzaan
Well-Known Member
When they aren’t owned by morons they are absolutely lovely dogs. Beautiful temperaments, amazing family dogs.
Sadly since covid, prices have rocketed, more and more people have been buying dogs who don’t understand how to train or care for them, and more and more clueless people are breeding for the money.
It breaks my heart that this keeps happening. When will our country understand that just banning breeds won’t help. Introducing much tighter restrictions around who can own and breed dogs is the only real way forward.
bonny
Well-Known Member
As you can’t legislate who owns them the only way to not to keep having fatal attacks is just not to have them at all. Nobody needs to have a XL bully.
Starzaan
Well-Known Member
I don’t need to have Great Danes and a Malinois, particularly the Mali because I don’t need her to do any bite work or guarding. However, my dogs are well trained and are a pleasure to be around.
The breed has absolutely nothing to do with it. It’s the idiots who own them who create bad dogs.
There was a case near my fathers home in South Africa recently where a Labrador killed two people who had broken into someone’s house. Should we consider banning labradors too? They have as much potential to kill as bull breeds.
bonny
Well-Known Member
It’s all irrelevant anyway, people will carry on breeding them, others will keep buying them and people will continue to be attacked and killed by them.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
There is a time when you have to stop and ask yourself is it nature or nurture that turns this type of dog into a killer?
Some dogs are genetically predisposed to fight rather than flee, like the difference between a labrador that might run in the opposite direction or a German Shepherd that might face a threat head on. That doesn't mean a German Shepherd is at anymore risk of being a 'dangerous dog' its just that their very nature means they are more likely to not run away.
The problem is that its not just a case of what that dog has been subjected to by the handler. There can be hundreds of factors in a dogs life, or events that may have contributed to either reactive behaviour or aggressive behaviour and not just one thing that you could pinpoint has a lasting effect.
A lot of it is learned behaviour and the reaction of its owner (s) who have contributed, most probably, to its behaviour without even realising.
Some dogs are genetically predisposed to fight rather than flee, like the difference between a labrador that might run in the opposite direction or a German Shepherd that might face a threat head on. That doesn't mean a German Shepherd is at anymore risk of being a 'dangerous dog' its just that their very nature means they are more likely to not run away.
The problem is that its not just a case of what that dog has been subjected to by the handler. There can be hundreds of factors in a dogs life, or events that may have contributed to either reactive behaviour or aggressive behaviour and not just one thing that you could pinpoint has a lasting effect.
A lot of it is learned behaviour and the reaction of its owner (s) who have contributed, most probably, to its behaviour without even realising.
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Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Unwarranted/inappropriate aggression in any dog is generally down to poor/high nerve and that's genetic and gets put aside for colour and looks and size etc etc etc in breeding animals.
Confident, stable dogs don't go around biting people and gobbing off at everything for no reason.
Confident, stable dogs don't go around biting people and gobbing off at everything for no reason.
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
I agree with you. I have no problem with people who know what they are doing owning them, but that isnt the case, any muppet who wants a status symbol can have one.
These dogs are too powerful, inflict too much damage too quickly and do not back down. They are a liability in the wrong hands and the wrong hands I daresay would be the majority of people who own one.
Arzada
Well-Known Member
You're correct. There are more deaths by dog in 2022. To 31 May there were 6 fatalities. ANd more since.
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/national-crisis-fatal-dog-attacks-24110874
Between 2013 and 2019 the average number of death by dog was just over 3 pa
https://www.gbnews.uk/news/uk-dog-a...ncluding-toddler-killed-since-november/261833
AmyMay
Situation normal
Horrific
ArklePig
Well-Known Member
Thanks @Arzada really interesting links. I wasn't sure if I was just more aware of them from reading this forum recently or if they had increased, but they have massively. It feels so futile to say something must be done, what can be done? I'm not one to advocate banning whole breeds of dog but the thoughts of some one owning 5 American bulldogs just seems crazy. Even if there were stringent restrictions I can't see them being enforced to any great degree given we see often on this very forum that some dog wardens won't even act on a continuously straying dog.
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Errin Paddywack
Well-Known Member
Locally there are a couple who own an aggressive rottie. On one occasion they were in their front garden, their dog was loose and someone passing with a guide dog brood bitch had it badly attacked by this dog. It now has a restraining order on it. Then more recently a chap we know who also has a rottie, a real sweetie was walking it in a local little wood when his was attacked out of the blue by a rottie that was on a lead but the owner couldn't hold it. He got badly bitten and his dog was bitten too. His wounds got infected and he now has a referral to a plastics surgeon for evaluation. He didn't report this as he doesn't want to get rotties a bad name. However it turns out it is the rottie with a restraining order on it. His friend has told him he must report it and I hope he does as this is a really nasty dog.
My friend has also told me a young couple who bought a TM bitch puppy earlier this year and now have another pup, a dog, which is a Neapolitan Mastiff x Cane Corsa and I think something else too. They take good care of their dogs but what is the betting they breed them together. Really hope they don't.
I just despair at times.
My friend has also told me a young couple who bought a TM bitch puppy earlier this year and now have another pup, a dog, which is a Neapolitan Mastiff x Cane Corsa and I think something else too. They take good care of their dogs but what is the betting they breed them together. Really hope they don't.
I just despair at times.
Esmae
Well-Known Member
You certainly could, however whether or not it would ultimately make a difference is questionable. Laws, generally, only work for the law abiding. Personally I think most of these problems are caused by dogs being in the wrong hands. Sad for the woman to lose her life.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Crikey, both Cane Corsa's and Neopolitan Mastiffs are on the dangerous dogs list in the US so having a mix isn't ideal, much less breeding from one. I shrudder to think why people would want this??
Are those dogs attractive to the type of people who strutt down the street looking 'ard' with their dog at their side straining on a lead and looking menacing?
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Clodagh
Well-Known Member
They really don’t. Look at the inside of a non bull bred dog compared to a bull bred. The jaws on bullies are bred to have enormous amounts of grip and pressure.
Starzaan
Well-Known Member
Oh I don’t dispute that bull breeds have power behind them. But Great Danes technically are bull breeds as they’re a mastiff. Do we ban them too?
I just fail to see how banning breeds will make any difference whatsoever. We need to regulate the industry, not just ban dogs.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Neopolitan breed characteristic shows them as being:
Four of those words send a shiver down my spine.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Most NMs these days wouldn’t be able to see anything well enough to do much 
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I am not sure that there is breed-specific legislation covering the entirety of the United States of America, laws are usually by state/city/county.
I know someone with a Cane Corso with natural ears and tail who does very well in kennel club obedience competitions and showing, he's a big soft thing, they are not all monsters.
I don't recall Neopolitan Mastiffs as having been a problem in a very long time?
I know someone with a Cane Corso with natural ears and tail who does very well in kennel club obedience competitions and showing, he's a big soft thing, they are not all monsters.
I don't recall Neopolitan Mastiffs as having been a problem in a very long time?
SilverLinings
Well-Known Member
I think if breeds are banned that have caused attacks then unfortunately the irresponsible type of owner who is drawn to them (the type who picks a bull breed to look aggressive, and deliberately winds the dog up) will just move on to another breed. And that is supposing that they don't just obtain illegal ones.
There isn't a lot of accountability with dog owning at the moment, as shown on the other thread where neither the police nor dog warden will speak to the owner of dogs repeatedly straying onto a main road. Dogs are also supposed to be microchipped so could that not be linked to dog licences, and the licensing of breeding? Yes, some people would ignore it, but if the money raised from licensing went to fund more (and more proactive) dog wardens then spot checks in public would help to cut down on the less responsible owners. Unlicensed dogs should be seized and not released without a significant fine (and repeat occurrences could result in court for the owner).
If certain breeds are seen as a particular risk (in certain hands) in terms of attacks, then maybe requiring the owner to either attend some training themselves before the dog is 1yr old, or to take the dog to a training/assessment session and display basic obedience could again be linked to the dog license.
It's not an easy problem to solve, but aside from the risk to humans it is horrifying how many dogs are in completely unsuitable homes at the moment, made worse by the pandemic boom in ownership. Anything that stops dogs being owned by actively cruel people or completely ignorant and selfish numpties would be a good thing surely.
A lot of owners don't seem to realise that it is a privilege to own a dog not a right, and that they are responsible for putting the dog's needs first, but then a lot of them don't even seem to realise that about having children.
There isn't a lot of accountability with dog owning at the moment, as shown on the other thread where neither the police nor dog warden will speak to the owner of dogs repeatedly straying onto a main road. Dogs are also supposed to be microchipped so could that not be linked to dog licences, and the licensing of breeding? Yes, some people would ignore it, but if the money raised from licensing went to fund more (and more proactive) dog wardens then spot checks in public would help to cut down on the less responsible owners. Unlicensed dogs should be seized and not released without a significant fine (and repeat occurrences could result in court for the owner).
If certain breeds are seen as a particular risk (in certain hands) in terms of attacks, then maybe requiring the owner to either attend some training themselves before the dog is 1yr old, or to take the dog to a training/assessment session and display basic obedience could again be linked to the dog license.
It's not an easy problem to solve, but aside from the risk to humans it is horrifying how many dogs are in completely unsuitable homes at the moment, made worse by the pandemic boom in ownership. Anything that stops dogs being owned by actively cruel people or completely ignorant and selfish numpties would be a good thing surely.
A lot of owners don't seem to realise that it is a privilege to own a dog not a right, and that they are responsible for putting the dog's needs first, but then a lot of them don't even seem to realise that about having children.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
This, this and this again, we have these conversations every time this subject unfortunately comes around again, all too often.
My friend's dog (plus a spaniel and a fisherman, who was able to fend it off with his rod) was attacked by a bull type in a public walking spot a few weeks ago. Owner said that the leash broke but another witness says he regularly just pops the boot and lets the dog off with no leash. It took 20 minutes to catch the thing.
The dog warden arrived and my friend heard him say 'this is the third time I've had to speak to you' - why was action not taken, at least on the second time?
SilverLinings
Well-Known Member
The problem is that we're preaching to the choir on here!
At the risk of going down a rabbit hole, I think there is a larger issue in society that has developed over the last few years of some people not being adults and taking responsibility for the things they have control over. Frankly, if you can't be a responsible adult then you shouldn't be allowed children/pets/alcohol/to drive/etc, as you are behaving like a child (not you CC, the generic 'you'!). Particularly in the case of animals and children as you have the potential to ruin their lives (or kill them).
Regarding dog wardens, it very much seems luck of the draw whether you live near an effective one or not, and they don't seem to have many powers to do much of any consequence. Toughening up their powers would be a start, and repeat offending by dog owners should mean fines at the very least.
FestiveG
Over the hill and far awa
A few years ago, I had the misfortune of a loose dog running into the side of my car. It was supposedly with its female owner and her friend, who also had a loose spaniel. The road is 40mph with no pavement. The dog that got the car ran off and its owner was unaware of what had happened!
I rang the police non emergency number to inform of the collision, the call handler appeared to think that I was entirely to blame for the event, however the dog warden, thankfully, had a different view and we saw a massive improvement for a few weeks.
I rang the police non emergency number to inform of the collision, the call handler appeared to think that I was entirely to blame for the event, however the dog warden, thankfully, had a different view and we saw a massive improvement for a few weeks.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Fila Brasilerio, Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa and Dog Artentino are the four in this country on the DDA 1991.
52 countries have breed specific legislation against them. As of 2018 there is some level of breed-specific legislation in 37 states and over 1,000 cities in the US.