Woman killed, seven dogs seized

Dexter said:
Where did you see the details? The article was really vague and just described it as a show for badly behaved puppies, probably deliberately to be fair.
Click to expand...
The show was called Ten Puppies and Us. It was on a few years ago, I watched it at the time. It followed the first few months in the lives of the pups and their owners. The Wales Online headline is irresponsible clickbait.
 
Moobli said:
And whether they are likely to be prosecuted? ?
Click to expand...


What could they be prosecuted for? The woman who was in charge of them is the one who died. They were definitely foolish in allowing their dogs to be walked in such a big group by one person but, as she shouldn't even have been walking them all together in that area, according to the by-law, I don't see how the owners can be held responsible. I would be surprised if the owners knew the truth about the usual dog walks.
 
Hackback said:
You see I think any dog is capable of this in the wrong situation. I love dogs (and have 3 big dogs) but I am in the camp of never leave a child and dog together unattended, never assume your dog won't bite you in a moment of stress because it loves you, etc etc.
Click to expand...

I had an uncle who had been a security guard and dog handler until a work accident put an end to that career and the dog, an Alsatian bitch named Tanya, was retired with him.

That dog loved loved me, and there are many photos of us playing together with her off lead in the snow in the woods or her sitting by the foot of my high chair while I gnaw the last meat off a lamb bone, waiting her turn to have a go at it.

And then one day the postman came to my aunt's and uncle's house, and Tanya dashed along the hall, straight through the bottom pane of glass in the door to get the postman. He'd seen it through the frosted glass and run down the path, and Tanya stopped just outside the door.

She was put to sleep the same day.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
What could they be prosecuted for? The woman who was in charge of them is the one who died. They were definitely foolish in allowing their dogs to be walked in such a big group by one person but, as she shouldn't even have been walking them all together in that area, according to the by-law, I don't see how the owners can be held responsible. I would be surprised if the owners knew the truth about the usual dog walks.
Click to expand...

I’m sure you are right. I wasn’t sure whether the owners or the dog walker would be considered to be legally responsible for the dogs when in the care of the PDW.
 
I know that from an insurance point of view the person with control/custody of the dogs at the time of an incident (e.g. a dog causing an RTA or knocking someone over) is likely to be seen as liable, which is why dog walkers need insurance. I suppose if an owner knew for example that their dog had previously attacked people, didn't tell the dog walker that, and then the dog attacked a third party whilst being walked by the dog walker then the owner could be seen as having some legal responsibility for owning a dangerous dog. I suppose the owners would only be seen to have any legal responsibility in this case if they hadn't told the walker that their dog was known to bite/fight/be dangerous.
 
marmalade76 said:
Agree, I wouldn't expect the combination of breeds in the Leon to be anything but sweet & tolerant. One the other hand I would never trust a collie not to bite (yes, I own one) but they're not known for mauling, more sneaky, eg bite then run away.

How anyone would think it's a good idea to take eight dogs out at once is beyond me.
Click to expand...

my jrt was in the boot of the car when a large male collie jumped up and dragged him by the leg out of the car, i tried to pull it off, it bit me on the hand then dragged my dog out of the car, i punched it and ran with collie in pursuit oh was there by then thank god, if it had not let goas iwas kicking it, i was going to jump on it and get it by the long nose and throttle it

i`ve been trying to think of something to carry apart from a large stick, like a spray or something

if a loose dog heads in out direction i pick my dog up immediately, on the beach one day spot went towards another dog
, i called `` here spot`` he came back instantly, i was really proud of that, even if he is 6 inches high! i still feel the need to control him

what happened to the dog walker was going to happen soon, loose dogs everywhere, dogs have teeth and are pack animals that hunt, what the bloody hell is wrong with people!
 
Not sure that picking your dog up is a good option. Apparently the other woman that was bitten was attacked because she had picked her dog up and I would have thought there would be a high risk of you getting knocked down if a big dog decided it wanted your dog and you were holding it. Have nothing better to add though as a better solution.
 
Petalpoos said:
Not sure that picking your dog up is a good option. Apparently the other woman that was bitten was attacked because she had picked her dog up and I would have thought there would be a high risk of you getting knocked down if a big dog decided it wanted your dog and you were holding it. Have nothing better to add though as a better solution.
Click to expand...
With mine, I know it could lead to me being bitten, but I too have whisked him up and into my arms. I couldn't just allow him to be bitten!
 
Petalpoos said:
Not sure that picking your dog up is a good option. Apparently the other woman that was bitten was attacked because she had picked her dog up and I would have thought there would be a high risk of you getting knocked down if a big dog decided it wanted your dog and you were holding it. Have nothing better to add though as a better solution.
Click to expand...

TBH I wouldn't risk myself for any animal and I certainly wouldn't be putting myself between a pair of fighting dogs, maybe a foot if I had a good pair of boots on but that's it.
 
tristar said:
my jrt was in the boot of the car when a large male collie jumped up and dragged him by the leg out of the car, i tried to pull it off, it bit me on the hand then dragged my dog out of the car, i punched it and ran with collie in pursuit oh was there by then thank god, if it had not let goas iwas kicking it, i was going to jump on it and get it by the long nose and throttle it

i`ve been trying to think of something to carry apart from a large stick, like a spray or something

if a loose dog heads in out direction i pick my dog up immediately, on the beach one day spot went towards another dog
, i called `` here spot`` he came back instantly, i was really proud of that, even if he is 6 inches high! i still feel the need to control him

what happened to the dog walker was going to happen soon, loose dogs everywhere, dogs have teeth and are pack animals that hunt, what the bloody hell is wrong with people!
Click to expand...

I thought we were talking about people being mauled to death by dogs, not dog on dog, that is a completely different subject.
 
marmalade76 said:
I thought we were talking about people being mauled to death by dogs, not dog on dog, that is a completely different subject.
Click to expand...

as i said I WAS BITTEN ON THE HAND, it could easily have escalated to its loose running mates, 3 other collies joining in.

so i would say its very on topic, and what an unsympathetic reponse to a bad experience.
 
The dead woman has not yet been named, but here is an update.

Caterham dog attack: Victim's family speak of their grief https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64311565

Eight dogs seized by officers at the scene are still being held by police and their owners are being kept updated. Surrey Police said it was working with a forensic pathologist and a veterinary pathologist and inquiries would take time to complete.
 
Moobli said:
I’m sure you are right. I wasn’t sure whether the owners or the dog walker would be considered to be legally responsible for the dogs when in the care of the PDW.
Click to expand...

(on the basis we have no idea what happened so hypothetical)
what about the relationship between the dog owners and walker. If they find that the walker died from dog bites (she could have died from some other cause exacerbated by the dogs) and one of the owners had a dog with serious "form" and had not told the walker and it's teeth marks were found on the body as the most likely cause of death by mauling were does the estate of the deceased and the owner stand. Basically their dog with form was most likely responsible for her death but they had not disclosed this.

OTOH the owners of the dogs must now be facing considerable costs with their dogs kennelled, probably legal costs in trying to get them back leaving aside the distress and also the monetary value of the dog. Plus their dogs may have needed or need ongoing vet attention. 8 dogs fighting and killing someone are not going to come out intact without some having bitten the others. If they believed their dog was being walked with only say 3 similar size others (eg dachshunds) which should have posed no danger and the walker misinformed them (as I said hypothetical) and instead took a collie, Leo and doodle as well so their small dogs would have had no chance.
 
tristar said:
my jrt was in the boot of the car when a large male collie jumped up and dragged him by the leg out of the car, i tried to pull it off, it bit me on the hand then dragged my dog out of the car, i punched it and ran with collie in pursuit oh was there by then thank god, if it had not let goas iwas kicking it, i was going to jump on it and get it by the long nose and throttle it

i`ve been trying to think of something to carry apart from a large stick, like a spray or something

if a loose dog heads in out direction i pick my dog up immediately, on the beach one day spot went towards another dog
, i called `` here spot`` he came back instantly, i was really proud of that, even if he is 6 inches high! i still feel the need to control him

what happened to the dog walker was going to happen soon, loose dogs everywhere, dogs have teeth and are pack animals that hunt, what the bloody hell is wrong with people!
Click to expand...

Could you desensitise your dog to that compressed air spray and then use that? Won't harm anyone and loud/sudden enough to break focus a lot of the time.

However - and I'm not sure whether this is likely to happen or not so perhaps someone who knows more can advise - but the additional stimulation could further encourage the dog if it was already in a bit of a frenzy type mode.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Would an owner be responsible for the kennel fees if their dog is taken in by the police after an incident, but subsequently released with a clean slate after enquiries are completed?
Click to expand...

I've seen defendants held liable for kennelling costs in welfare cases, but I am not sure what happens when either dog or owner are acquitted, I imagine that would fall to the force or council involved in the seizure.
 
surely forensic testing can tell which dogs bit the poor lady, or did not, even if to eliminate some of the dogs from taking part in the attack, not much chance of knowing which dogs started the aggression though


i cannot get my head around a dog walker taking very large dogs out with tiny ones, with possibility however remote, or not so remote in my estimation, dog fights breaking out.
how can they possibly control the non participants and have any chance of stopping the fighters, and they have no control at all should another loose dog approach
 
CorvusCorax said:
There's all sorts of things they can do to assess/determine which dogs were involved, DNA tests/swabs from each wound, measuring the bite against dogs' mouths, testing the dogs bite pressure/reactions to certain stimuli.
Click to expand...

See above.

It all feeds into the belief that it's all about love and how you train/raise/treat a dog, rather than understanding that they are predatory animals which will revert to their innate genetics, whatever they may be, when stress is applied, and an associated failure to read body language.
 
CorvusCorax said:
See above.

It all feeds into the belief that it's all about love and how you train/raise/treat a dog, rather than understanding that they are predatory animals which will revert to their innate genetics, whatever they may be, when stress is applied, and an associated failure to read body language.
Click to expand...


It's sheer stupidity imho.
 
CorvusCorax said:
See above.

It all feeds into the belief that it's all about love and how you train/raise/treat a dog, rather than understanding that they are predatory animals which will revert to their innate genetics, whatever they may be, when stress is applied, and an associated failure to read body language.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is what really annoys me about a lot of dog "lovers", ignoring your chosen breed's history, traits and physical abilities is utter stupidity.
 
And totally off topic but to agree with Marmalade, its why people who buy doodle crosses and then wonder why they cant copy annoy the f--k out of me. Cockers crossed with poodles are 2 working breeds as are many of the other crosses. Mine is cute and cuddly, but he is also a very busy little chap as I would expect him to be, not a total lap dog! He fits in with my Ess and terrierist a treat but lap dog, he aint!! And on the subject of dog walkers, Im sure there are some brilliant ones but the ones I see locally, I wouldnt trust with a goldfish. Imo, too many dogs, too many mixes of incompatible breeds to walk together, so they just open the van and let them run round a field, admittedly a private, secure field but they do run up to the neighbouring horses and bark for fun and they dont all recall when asked. Blummin good job they are in a secure field :(
 
I've had a dog that had got away from a walker down our lane it was chasing a muntjac and the deer ran through my field with dog running behind it, I had just brought my horses in I'm so glad I did as the poor thing was trying to get through the hedges round my field, the deer eventually got away and the dog gave up went back through my field and onto the road.

I ran down the road to see who the dog belonged to and there was a woman with 4 dogs including the one I had just seen, when I questioned her she denied it and said they had all been on leads so I told her if I saw it in my field again I would shoot it.

I had heard her calling the dog for about 10 minutes before it came into my field so it had been out of her sight for some time.
 
asmp said:
BBC breakfast have just shown a bus in America where they pick up a load of dogs and take them for walks. They then showed handlers with lot of dogs per person. It seems a rather insensitive article at the moment ?
Click to expand...
I have just seen it and though exactly the same. Most of the dogs are attached very tightly to the seats too. It will probably give some dog walkers here ideas of how to walk even more dogs.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
There are too many 'professional' dogwalkers who take little to no responsibility for the dogs in their care. There are a couple who bring dogs to walk near our property, we often watch them apparently taking no.notice of what the dogs are doing while off their leads. We met one of them when we were walking our dogs one day last year. A spaniel appeared from nowhere, screamed a few times at our dogs and turned tail. At no.point did we hear the walker call for the dog, it was just luck that it rejoined her group.
There should be stricter legislation about the number of dogs that don't live together which can be walked by one person, with proper enforcement, before things go wrong.
Click to expand...
I was a professional dog walker for 8 years, I gave it up when every Tom, dick and harry started doing it thinking it is an easy way to make money. My insurance stated that I could only walk 4 customer dogs at a time. Most dog walkers are only covered to walk the dogs and not actually to transport them to somewhere to walk so actually they are not covered if they had an accident in the car/van. Unless the customer had pet insurance to claim off they would be liable if their dog escaped and caused injury or accident.I saw many many people doing this job filling their vans with 20 dogs and driving somewhere and letting out 6 or 7 at a time Before taking them home. The dogs basically spent most of their day in the van. Some dog walkers don’t even have cages or seat belts for the dogs.It is definitely something that needs to be properly licensed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top