Woman killed, seven dogs seized

Sandstone1 said:
I agree but any dog could kill if they bite in wrong place. It could be more than one dog that bit and the poor lady died from blood loss. It will be a big mess to sort out.
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Where did you hear she had died from blood loss?
It must be one of the most terrifying ways to go.
In response to some post re dogs bites, I have been bitten, once was entirely my own fault I trusted a dog I had been warned about, he let me in but didn't let me out without a bite, he luckily was a JRT who was contained he broke the skin and damaged muscle through leather chaps and jeans, i then I had to get them back in again before I left!
Other times have been when dogs are about to fight or have just started, when terriers have been ratting and dogs need grabbing due to safety issues, those dogs have all made contact and 'spat' me back out so to speak, despite what 'zone' they were in they all realised I was not the intended target, for me any dog that hits a true red zone and reaches a point that its a blind all out attack on anything in its area needs putting to sleep regardless of size, situation, breed etc etc.
I feel for the owners but honestly I don't know if I would want my dog back if it had been involved in any aspect of this and there was any slightest doubt as to what dog did what.
I doubt this will be a popular view but the dogs won't know.
 
twiggy2 said:
Where did you hear she had died from blood loss?
It must be one of the most terrifying ways to go.
In response to some post re dogs bites, I have been bitten, once was entirely my own fault I trusted a dog I had been warned about, he let me in but didn't let me out without a bite, he luckily was a JRT who was contained he broke the skin and damaged muscle through leather chaps and jeans, i then I had to get them back in again before I left!
Other times have been when dogs are about to fight or have just started, when terriers have been ratting and dogs need grabbing due to safety issues, those dogs have all made contact and 'spat' me back out so to speak, despite what 'zone' they were in they all realised I was not the intended target, for me any dog that hits a true red zone and reaches a point that its a blind all out attack on anything in its area needs putting to sleep regardless of size, situation, breed etc etc.
I feel for the owners but honestly I don't know if I would want my dog back if it had been involved in any aspect of this and there was any slightest doubt as to what dog did what.
I doubt this will be a popular view but the dogs won't know.
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The poster said "could have died from blood loss...." not "did die from blood loss.
But no one knows what happened - its possible she got tangled and fell on the dogs.....or a fight started and she tried to stop it. No one knows yet.. But I most certainly would want my dog back - innocent till proven guilty.
 
twiggy2 said:
Where did you hear she had died from blood loss?
It must be one of the most terrifying ways to go.
In response to some post re dogs bites, I have been bitten, once was entirely my own fault I trusted a dog I had been warned about, he let me in but didn't let me out without a bite, he luckily was a JRT who was contained he broke the skin and damaged muscle through leather chaps and jeans, i then I had to get them back in again before I left!
Other times have been when dogs are about to fight or have just started, when terriers have been ratting and dogs need grabbing due to safety issues, those dogs have all made contact and 'spat' me back out so to speak, despite what 'zone' they were in they all realised I was not the intended target, for me any dog that hits a true red zone and reaches a point that its a blind all out attack on anything in its area needs putting to sleep regardless of size, situation, breed etc etc.
I feel for the owners but honestly I don't know if I would want my dog back if it had been involved in any aspect of this and there was any slightest doubt as to what dog did what.
I doubt this will be a popular view but the dogs won't know.
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I didnt say she died of blood loss if you read my post. I said any dog COULD bite in the wrong place and she COULD have died of blood loss. I have no idea if thats what happened. Just pointing out that any dog if it bites in the wrong place could kill someone.
 
Sandstone1 said:
I didnt say she died of blood loss if you read my post. I said any dog COULD bite in the wrong place and she COULD have died of blood loss. I have no idea if thats what happened. Just pointing out that any dog if it bites in the wrong place could kill someone.
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Steady, Mine was a simple question, not an allegation, I read your post wrong that's all.
 
Our council says 4 dogs max, which some walkers ignore. My OH counted 5 vans in the car park on Friday. Fortunately, they all seem to go into one section of the woods and not the bit we use.

Pearlsasinger said:
Who in their right mind walks a Leonberger with 6 other dogs? A Leonberger can easily weigh as much as an adult woman. And somewhere where they are likely to be more excitable than usual!
Of course it's tragic but the scenario sounds like a disaster of some kind just waiting to happen.
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I only know one Leonburger and she’s an angel. I spoke to the owner who rarely lets her off. She walks beautifully on her lead and is very good with other dogs. I’d be terrified if she turned, she’s ruddy massive. Puppies were intimidated by her so I’d go to say hi while my OH was training the boys in their early days.
 
Cinnamontoast said:
Our council says 4 dogs max, which some walkers ignore. My OH counted 5 vans in the car park on Friday. Fortunately, they all seem to go into one section of the woods and not the bit we use.



I only know one Leonburger and she’s an angel. I spoke to the owner who rarely lets her off. She walks beautifully on her lead and is very good with other dogs. I’d be terrified if she turned, she’s ruddy massive. Puppies were intimidated by her so I’d go to say hi while my OH was training the boys in their early days.
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Oh yes, I know of one that frequently visits a local MENCAP daycentre and is fab but they are very big dogs. When our Rottweilers got to weigh more than I do, I stopped walking them together, on my own. Neither of them was at all aggressive but if another dog had attacked, I would not have been able to hold them both and one would definitely have taken up the challenge.
 
Cinnamontoast said:
I only know one Leonburger and she’s an angel. I spoke to the owner who rarely lets her off. She walks beautifully on her lead and is very good with other dogs. I’d be terrified if she turned, she’s ruddy massive. Puppies were intimidated by her so I’d go to say hi while my OH was training the boys in their early days.
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I've come across lots as I think we have breeders down here. I would be very sad if it was the Leon. We used to have one old man who I guess was just lonely. He used to walk his adult Leo plus his Leo puppy into our market town several times a week right into the middle of it. He was stopped every few yards as people wanted to stroke the dogs and talk. I expect that way he got company. Kids mauled the dogs and they were delightful and tolerant.
Others walked their Leo pups as well. They were training them and they were delightful dogs. I wouldn't be scared of them nor others such as Newfies of which we also seem to have several.

I suspect the Leo will get the blame just because it is a large dog. If it was on top of her for whatever reason there is no way she would have ever got up due to it's size. One newspaper seemed to have it at the top of the list of suspects as it chewed everything when it was a pup. On that basis I would have had lots of little "land sharks" PTS over the years.


I ended up spending 6 weeks visiting the outpatients and health centre on just about a daily basis due to the my GSD.
He laid straight across my thighs as I was sitting up in bed watching the box. I had a hot water bottle under my thigh which burst. It took me a couple of second to work out what had happened and a lot longer to get the dog off. I ended up badly burnt as I couldn't get him off quickly enough.

I don't think the dogs S/B PTS unless there is very clear evidence. Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for the walker and her family as usual the animals were put into that dangerous position by a human's lack of judgement ie walking 7/8 dogs.

I have been bitten twice. Both times were collies who packed. (not mine)
 
twiggy2 said:
any dog that hits a true red zone and reaches a point that its a blind all out attack on anything in its area needs putting to sleep regardless of size, situation, breed etc etc.
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You see I think any dog is capable of this in the wrong situation. I love dogs (and have 3 big dogs) but I am in the camp of never leave a child and dog together unattended, never assume your dog won't bite you in a moment of stress because it loves you, etc etc.
 
Hackback said:
You see I think any dog is capable of this in the wrong situation. I love dogs (and have 3 big dogs) but I am in the camp of never leave a child and dog together unattended, never assume your dog won't bite you in a moment of stress because it loves you, etc etc.
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I agree never leave dogs and kids and that Al dogs bite, I feel a bite and a red zone attack are 2 very different things.
 
My foreign rescue (GSD/Rott/something) had had her canines filed, she's never shown any inclination to bite anyone or anything, but would that be a non cruel safety option for large breeds? Or is a big dog's bite powerful enough to cause massive injury even with blunt teeth?
 
I almost ended up throttled by a dog lead that i had round my neck one day on the beach. It was a foolish thing to have done and I made a mental note not to repeat the error. We don't really know yet what happened to the dog walker but we do seem to know that at least some of her dogs were on lead. I am pretty sure that a thorough post mortem will be carried out and all will be revealed in the fullness of time. If one of the dogs were mine, I would be pushing for its return unless it can be proved that the dog actually caused the death.
 
millikins said:
My foreign rescue (GSD/Rott/something) had had her canines filed, she's never shown any inclination to bite anyone or anything, but would that be a non cruel safety option for large breeds? Or is a big dog's bite powerful enough to cause massive injury even with blunt teeth?
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Yes. A prey bite involves the whole mouth. Even filed teeth are capable of causing tearing/lacerations and crush injuries/bruising. That's before infection and shock kick in.

Most 'front teeth/half mouthed' bites are when the dog is in defence.
 
Petalpoos said:
You have to also feel bad for the dog owners. Guessing that they were mostly much loved pets, the owners must now be grieving at the thought of (a) the horror of what their dog may have done, and (b) that whether it did or did not take part in the attack, they are unlikely to ever see their dog again.
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And whether they are likely to be prosecuted? ?
 
Hackback said:
You see I think any dog is capable of this in the wrong situation
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Totally agree. These dogs were put in such a wild situation - an exciting place with six other dogs (they may or may not have met before), other dog walkers, horses, leads getting tangled up together, the woman falling over (which probably dragged some of them/jerked on their collars), redirected aggression, loud screaming...talk about over-stimulation.
 
ellieb said:
Totally agree. These dogs were put in such a wild situation - an exciting place with six other dogs (they may or may not have met before), other dog walkers, horses, leads getting tangled up together, the woman falling over (which probably dragged some of them/jerked on their collars), redirected aggression, loud screaming...talk about over-stimulation.
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Were you there ?
 
millikins said:
My foreign rescue (GSD/Rott/something) had had her canines filed, she's never shown any inclination to bite anyone or anything, but would that be a non cruel safety option for large breeds? Or is a big dog's bite powerful enough to cause massive injury even with blunt teeth?
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My toothless greyhound bit hard enough to kill a grown duck that was silly enough to walk under the gate into his yard.
 
paddy555 said:
I've come across lots as I think we have breeders down here. I would be very sad if it was the Leon. We used to have one old man who I guess was just lonely. He used to walk his adult Leo plus his Leo puppy into our market town several times a week right into the middle of it. He was stopped every few yards as people wanted to stroke the dogs and talk. I expect that way he got company. Kids mauled the dogs and they were delightful and tolerant.
Others walked their Leo pups as well. They were training them and they were delightful dogs. I wouldn't be scared of them nor others such as Newfies of which we also seem to have several.

I suspect the Leo will get the blame just because it is a large dog. If it was on top of her for whatever reason there is no way she would have ever got up due to it's size. One newspaper seemed to have it at the top of the list of suspects as it chewed everything when it was a pup. On that basis I would have had lots of little "land sharks" PTS over the years.


I ended up spending 6 weeks visiting the outpatients and health centre on just about a daily basis due to the my GSD.
He laid straight across my thighs as I was sitting up in bed watching the box. I had a hot water bottle under my thigh which burst. It took me a couple of second to work out what had happened and a lot longer to get the dog off. I ended up badly burnt as I couldn't get him off quickly enough.

I don't think the dogs S/B PTS unless there is very clear evidence. Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for the walker and her family as usual the animals were put into that dangerous position by a human's lack of judgement ie walking 7/8 dogs.

I have been bitten twice. Both times were collies who packed. (not mine)
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Agree, I wouldn't expect the combination of breeds in the Leon to be anything but sweet & tolerant. One the other hand I would never trust a collie not to bite (yes, I own one) but they're not known for mauling, more sneaky, eg bite then run away.

How anyone would think it's a good idea to take eight dogs out at once is beyond me.
 
twiggy2 said:
Thats not a badly behaved puppy, it's a normal pup qith novice owners, lots of puppies chew and there is nothing so far as I am aware that says that this dogs attacked the woman.
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Where did you see the details? The article was really vague and just described it as a show for badly behaved puppies, probably deliberately to be fair.
 
millikins said:
It's awful, poor woman and her friend who was injured. DT says 7 dogs seized and being held by police, no arrests yet. They also reported that 9 people were killed by dogs in 2022, compared to an average of 3.3 in the 20 years previously.
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I suspect this is a result of everyone and their mother getting a dog during lockdowns, not socialising or training them properly and then not having time to care for them when they went back to work (and getting dog walkers, sitters etc - many of which started up businesses after lockdowns as well with little experience).
 
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