Words fail me

Bring back the death penalty and castrate/sterilise all who abusing or mistreating children in any way. They should never NEVER be allowed to have children again.

But of course the HUMAN RIGHTS people would be all over you. Well where were the human rights people when his innocent baby boy was being tortured to death.

If as a society we are unable to protect the most vulnerable amongst us then as a society we have failed.

It is about time that the powers took a much stronger position on this sort of behaviour, and eye for an eye.
 
I cannot help but think that the wave of 'misery porn' books is fuelling this fire somewhat. If people make money from writing about their childhood abuses at the hands of adults, it makes it more mainstream. I am convinced that 99% of what is published as autobiography is actually fiction. Sadly, this case is all too familiar a scenario. Babies are an easy target, and whilst it is easy to ask why Social Services didn't intervene, what about other family members, friends, medical staff etc? People can be very clever at disguising injuries and making excuses. The man was a sadist, and often sadists attack babies and young children in this way. I'd really like the same injuries inflicted on him... With the same 'regular visits' from a social worker that the baby received, of course.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I think we have to stop all this PT stuff and get to the point whereby if you can't demonstrate you can bring up children responsibly by living as an adult responsibly you aren't supported financially by the state in having children.


[/ QUOTE ]

So what happens if these people that can't bring up children responsibly, by behaving as responsible adults, (see your wording above), actually DO have children. If the state is not going to support these people, who supports their kids??? (Assuming the parents do not work, which is unlikely if they have already been labelled as irresponsible anyway).
confused.gif


And if this means that the children will be taken away (as the state is providing no money to the families in question to support children) surely this would be totally unethical and leaped on by HR???

The only way to stop these people having kids is enforced sterilisation
crazy.gif


I am not sure I understand this point
confused.gif
 
The point I am making is not about existing children already born but new or more children. In this country no-one has to take control of their lives or think about the consequences of their actions, there is always some official body to pick up the pieces.
Where will it end if some of the circumstance of these lives are not altered, we are descending into more and more depravity and for the benefit of all in society some harsh choices need to be made.

Even on this thread there are those saying where are the social workers in all this but the bottom line is what about the parents, the buck stops with them, social workers can't and weren't introduced to prevent murder for gods sake but to help the vulnerable in times of need.
 
People on this forum discuss every day if their animals are GOOD enough to be used for breeding, stallion are graded for this sole purpose.

It is quite obvious these people are not GOOD enough to bring up children, they have proven that by taking an innocent life for what seems like their own pleasure, so they should not be allowed to.

It really is as simple as that.
 
In my post I was referring to new children. There would be a certain percentage of children born after the 'no money for irresponsible parents/people rule' (which you are suggesting). You cannot stop these people having sex, and if they are already irresponsible, they may well have the same attitude towards contraception or the future.

So, assuming these people still have kids after a rule drawn up not to fund such kiddies, what happens then?
confused.gif


(As I said in my last post) - Enforced sterlisation, adoption/fostering the new kids? Or perhaps just total poverty for the children?

I am afraid this plan would just not work in reality.
frown.gif
confused.gif
 
Enforced sterlisation, adoption/fostering the new kids? You answered the question.

Its very easy clean up you act or remain childless, if you really want a family you'd get yourself sorted. Having a child should not be a given right if you cannot offer it a stable safe upbringing.

Doing nothing isn't and option any longer no matter how uncomfortable these things make us, children of these parents will have history repeating itself and somewhere the cycle needs to be broken.
 
POOR CHILD, jail IMO is far too good for skum like that!!! another child let down by the system, which was set up to and is meant to protect these children! AWFUL,,,, EVIL EVIL people!!!
 
Maybe what needs to happen is that the whole area of conception and having babies needs to be emphasised as what it is, the biggest responsibilty a human being can have. It shouldn't be seen as the first and only option in life for people who take no responsibilty even for themselves.

Sadly in this country it seems the lowest common denominator are the very people who seem to conceive without thought,without any consequence for their actions. Children should be seen as a privilege, for which you should be prepared to give your whole life to,not a right to any idiot who has sex.

Surely the only reason a child should be born is because it is going to be the parents' whole life, after years of careful consideration for the enormity of being responsible for bringing a life into this world.

I chose not to have children as I don't have the over powering maternal instinct needed to bring up children properly. Why do some people never even consider this, and just blindly conceive without any thought for the life they are responsible for? Personal responsibilty in this country has vanished.

No society should have to try to protect tiny babies from their own parents. Disturbingly these monsters will find other scumbags to conceive again with.Life is cheap for these torturers. They should be forcibly sterilised.

RIP little boy, and all the poor innocents who have suffered before you, and the poor angels who will be doomed from conception in the future.

I am ashamed to be part of the human race right now.
 
altho i am appalled and shocked at this poor childs suffering and death I'm surprised at how many people think it is a good idea to hand over the power of deciding who can and can't have babies to the govt/ social services
shocked.gif
why didn't we just roll over all those years ago and let hitler in because those were his views too!!
can you imagine being told you're not allowed kids because you had depression at some point in your life, you're in the wrong job, you don't live in a nice enough house, you're the wrong race/ religion
shocked.gif
 
can you imagine being told you're not allowed kids because you had depression at some point in your life, you're in the wrong job, you don't live in a nice enough house, you're the wrong race/ religion

--------------------

Thats not what this is about at all. What is your answer then to the problems we have created whereby small babies are killed by those who should die to defend and protect them.
 
In defence of social services they do an amazing job in incredibly difficult circumstances with budgets cut year on year - do you really think any social worker would have seen this child and thought oh well I'll just leave it and go home. ever wonder why it is one of the highest stressful jobs on the planet? the parents are to blame here and yes maybe mistakes were missed but to blanket blame SS is frankly naive! It is a horrific case but pointing the finger at authorities who try and help won't do any good. Social services help and save thousands of children each year - not once do you hear people ever praising them for that.... there are evil people in this world, we will never stop that what we do is our best to stop them committing harm, blame them not SS.
 
How dreadful. I would not want to be the social worker concerned, however, I read the article to say the injuries were a few weeks old, so possibly hadn't been inflicted at the last social workers visit. I do hope these people are found guilty andf their crime becomes common knowledge in prison, then they will know fear.

As far as stopping people have children etc. I think if the Gov just put more effort into getting long term dole wallers etc back to work, and perhaps reduced the amount of income support provided for each sucsessve child, perhaps there would be less people making a career of benefits. I have waited 17 years to be in the position to try for a 2nd child. In the course of my work it is invariably non working families who choose to have multiple children, and of course they then get a bigger house (and they all have wide sceen telly & satellite dish).

We are so lucky in this country to have a safety net for if we get made unemployed or are left on outr own with kids. Its just such a shame its open to abuse
 
Jellyshake extreme knee jerk reactions like this don't help.

Nobody has said to allow decisions over who can and can't be allowed to have children be based on depression etc. That would exclude a huge number of society!

Surely we are referring to this particular horrific case, and the other people who have inflicted torture and murdered babies in the past? Do you think they should be given free rein to conceive again? Surely they have given up any right to have children again after already murdering their baby?

Bringing Hitler into this is ironic, as he also tortured and murdered babies and children. You have brought up race/religion/housing etc, these have not been mentioned by anybody as they are totally irrelevant.

All that matters is that parents who kill are never allowed to do this again, and seeing as these scumbags give no thought whatsoever into conception then it may be that they have to be forcibly prevented by other means. That is the point that has been made and no other. I wish people would read and digest and put some thought into replies and keep to what has actually been said.

Bringing such extreme comments into this is disrespectful to this tragic baby.

Education about the responsibilty of parenting from a young age is well over due in this society.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I think we have to stop all this PT stuff and get to the point whereby if you can't demonstrate you can bring up children responsibly by living as an adult responsibly you aren't supported financially by the state in having children. A colleague at work has a sister who is an enormous drain on the 'care' resources, she is a drug addict has a drug addict partner and two small children who are already showing signs of being disturbed. Social workers are damed if they do damed if they don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

With politics somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan (sp) I'm with you on this. Day in day out I see these folk stumbling through life expecting someone else NHS/S.Services/Police/Council etc sort their mess out for them and still they keep popping these kids out like shelling peas.

Along with life imprisonment this boys carers should be sterilised, full stop.
 
My point is how are you going to stop these people having children?
confused.gif


It is obvious that some of these people are not up to the job of parenting. How would you personally stop them having kids?
confused.gif


I really don't think the solution is readily available - So this issue is not simple at all IMO.

Of course I agree that the ultimate responsibility for a child lies with the parent. IMO it is the breakdown of this that leads to so many issues WRT crime etc.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Enforced sterlisation, adoption/fostering the new kids? You answered the question.

Its very easy clean up you act or remain childless, if you really want a family you'd get yourself sorted. Having a child should not be a given right if you cannot offer it a stable safe upbringing.

Doing nothing isn't and option any longer no matter how uncomfortable these things make us, children of these parents will have history repeating itself and somewhere the cycle needs to be broken.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't answer the question, because I cannot see how enforced sterilisation could be made law???!!! And apart from human rights issues, what if there are medical reasons why this cannot happen to certain individuals? I cannot imagine the state pinning people down to have a sterilisation procedure?!
crazy.gif
confused.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe what needs to happen is that the whole area of conception and having babies needs to be emphasised as what it is, the biggest responsibilty a human being can have. It shouldn't be seen as the first and only option in life for people who take no responsibilty even for themselves.

[/ QUOTE ] Totally and absolutely agree with this approach.

[ QUOTE ]
Sadly in this country it seems the lowest common denominator are the very people who seem to conceive without thought,without any consequence for their actions. Children should be seen as a privilege, for which you should be prepared to give your whole life to,not a right to any idiot who has sex.

Surely the only reason a child should be born is because it is going to be the parents' whole life, after years of careful consideration for the enormity of being responsible for bringing a life into this world.

I chose not to have children as I don't have the over powering maternal instinct needed to bring up children properly. Why do some people never even consider this, and just blindly conceive without any thought for the life they are responsible for? Personal responsibilty in this country has vanished.

No society should have to try to protect tiny babies from their own parents. Disturbingly these monsters will find other scumbags to conceive again with.Life is cheap for these torturers. They should be forcibly sterilised.

RIP little boy, and all the poor innocents who have suffered before you, and the poor angels who will be doomed from conception in the future.

I am ashamed to be part of the human race right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely agree with your post.
 
[ QUOTE ]
altho i am appalled and shocked at this poor childs suffering and death I'm surprised at how many people think it is a good idea to hand over the power of deciding who can and can't have babies to the govt/ social services
shocked.gif
why didn't we just roll over all those years ago and let hitler in because those were his views too!!
can you imagine being told you're not allowed kids because you had depression at some point in your life, you're in the wrong job, you don't live in a nice enough house, you're the wrong race/ religion
shocked.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

No, the point that they are murdering, low life, scum bags, with no respect for human life what so ever, leads me to want to chop his bo@@@cks off or tie her tubes. The same goes for known repetitive sex offenders who are allowed to walk the streets, looking for their next innocent victim.

The fact that society is allowing these kind of people to reproduce knowing what they have done IS criminal. It will only lead to more strain put on the social and welfare services, as well as the government, which in turn simply boils down to all the law abiding tax paying citizens, doling out more cash to keep these people doing what they do.

YOUR CHOICE.

Maybe those people who don't agree with sterilisation should pay more taxes in order to cover the costs these horrendous acts place on society.

AGAIN YOUR CHOICE, I know what mine would be.

Your reference to Hitler is absolutely ridiculous
 
Just as in all previous difficult social changes,racism,sexism, homophobia, domestic violence etc. All the above issues do still happen but are not viewed as acceptable by mainstream society therefore are not as widespread as they once were, plus it's hoped we as a society are more aware, more tolerant and better educated.

So it is with irresponsible conception and bad parenting. What seems acceptable amongst certain sectors of society now has to come under pressure and be educated against for the sake of future generations.

World population is growing at such a rate there is no need for such a high birth rate, and coupled with the promotion of personal responsibilty and education from a young age abou life choices surely a difference can be made? It won't happen overnight but things have changed beyond recognition with other inhumane but well established problems.

If parents or carers who kill children are subject to compulsory sterilisation it would be a start too. And I am a liberal.Even voluntary, as in convicted paedophiles at the moment, might save a few children from being born to killers.

There is no simple solution no,but change can happen for the better if society encourages personal responsibility and uses education starting now. I can't believe positive life choices aren't already part of the curriculum,this society needs it badly.
 
[ QUOTE ]
How dreadful. I would not want to be the social worker concerned, however, I read the article to say the injuries were a few weeks old, so possibly hadn't been inflicted at the last social workers visit. I do hope these people are found guilty andf their crime becomes common knowledge in prison, then they will know fear.

As far as stopping people have children etc. I think if the Gov just put more effort into getting long term dole wallers etc back to work, and perhaps reduced the amount of income support provided for each sucsessve child, perhaps there would be less people making a career of benefits. I have waited 17 years to be in the position to try for a 2nd child. In the course of my work it is invariably non working families who choose to have multiple children, and of course they then get a bigger house (and they all have wide sceen telly & satellite dish).

We are so lucky in this country to have a safety net for if we get made unemployed or are left on outr own with kids. Its just such a shame its open to abuse

[/ QUOTE ]

totally agree, well put.

a safety net is one thing, but the endless abuse of dla, jobseekers (ha!) etc .... it's absurd for a start that if you don't work you can afford to drink/do drugs.
Tax credits work well for low paid (but hard working) families, so abusers of jobseekers and dla allowances should be clamped down on.
Providing a decent care system for children at tisk would help, too. I've heard social workers say the care system is so bad, unless a kid is actually at risk of being killed, he's better off at home *however* foul the home.
frown.gif
frown.gif
Got it wrong on this one then.
frown.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]


If parents or carers who kill children are subject to compulsory sterilisation it would be a start too. And I am a liberal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I totally and absolutely agree with this. Trouble is, although it can prevent such animals having future children (if they did then social services would surely remove them anyway) the damage is already well and truly done.

I think we were speaking about sterilisation of people that do not seem to act in a responsible way, BEFORE they have children??? That is what I find impossible to achieve?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


If parents or carers who kill children are subject to compulsory sterilisation it would be a start too. And I am a liberal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I totally and absolutely agree with this. Trouble is, although it can prevent such animals having future children (if they did then social services would surely remove them anyway) the damage is already well and truly done.

I think we were speaking about sterilisation of people that do not seem to act in a responsible way, BEFORE they have children??? That is what I find impossible to achieve?

[/ QUOTE ]

One child taken into care is better than a football team, or worst dead children.

People should be given the benefit of the doubt, but murder is murder no matter how you sugar coat it!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
sorry, not going to be popular here, but what the **** were the social services DOING?
rant over.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats exactly what i thought. they take any kid into care when there parents have asked for help and yet they let people like this kill a poor kid.

RIP poor boy
 
I am personally aware of one case where a parent killed his baby violently and has gone on,after serving a prison sentence for what he did, many years later,to have 2 more children with a different woman in a different area of the country. These children are not in care.

There are also 2 mothers, in the same area of this country, who both killed one of their children but have been allowed to resume living with their surviving children.One has gone on to have another 3 in addition.They must be under supervision but how can this be acceptable.How do the surviving children cope?

There must be other cases like this across the UK.

How many more killer parents have been able to do the same?I shudder to think. Surely this should not be allowed to happen.This was my main point.

Can't stop thinking about this poor baby boy.Does anybody remember Jasmine Beckford, Tyra Henry and Heidi Koseda?Their names and pictures have never left my mind.These little girls were all tortured and killed by their own parents or step parents in 1984.20 years later some poor children in our country are still suffering the same fate.Why hasn't education been put in place in the last 20 years to try to educate the very people who are likely to conceive irresponsibly and have children without a thought only to neglect them horrifically and in extreme cases murder them?

Sorry I have said so much on this,if only some children had the same care as us on here give to our horses..

I have contacted the NSPCC today and I have asked their advice on getting a petition up in order to try to have basic personal responsibilty regarding the conception of unwanted children made a high profile in society, particularly schools.The problem of unwanted/unplanned pregancies is only going to get worse unless something is done to chage mindsets.Contraception is more freely available now than at any time, yet child neglect and abuse is at unacceptable levels.

For the sake of the suffering of this little boy I have got to try to do something,would a petition get support do you think?There is very little else individuals can do except to raise how strong public opinion is this tragic little boy.
 
i know of two people who are social workers. and i am glad they wont see this frankly ignorant attitude. and to anyone who is a social worker i imagine they would be hurt and insulted that this is how they are percieved.
it is, as someone has pointed out already, one of the most stressful jobs out there. and i think it is completely unfair to blame it on SS. they are understaffed, underfunded and the system aint making it any easier.
i agree completely with sunny08. no-body praises the good work that is actually done by social workers, the stress they go through and even the danger they face. one fo these people i refer to has had a knife drawn on her and her hair ripped out while she has been working.
 
I think your idea of a petition re: education and personal responsibility around conception is a great idea.

It is great that you have given a lot of thought to this issue and are really trying to make a difference.

If you get the petition going do let us know.

I cannot believe that people who horrifically abuse or kill children actually go on to being responsible for more of their own children? I am horrified that the state actually lets this happen???
shocked.gif
confused.gif
 
There is only one answer for people like that and it’s the death penalty... no excuses for any one who can behave in that way! It’s disgusting and goes against every human instinct, I also don’t believe in paying part of my hard earned cash to keep them alive in a 'prison' with central heating, room service and sky TV.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top