Working kelpies

we had quite a long chat about them once-I wondered about temperament (his live in the house) as my kelpie experience in Oz wasn't great. He said they are great pen dogs, less good on the hill (he doesn't currently have a collie) and he's only had problems with temp in cross breeds. He admits said he's not the best trainer! he says he'll always have one-he has family in Oz so has spent time out there. is bitch is small but a lovely character.
 
I saw them a lot on Australia, mainly red clouds rather than black and tans. Rock hard little dogs who worked all day. They were bred as the border collie had too much coat and not enough drive for the outback. Very loyal, no temperament issues in the hard worked ones I saw. I had a kelpie x heeler who I bought back to England with me and she had enough emotional baggage to fill her own suitcase.
Very vocal when working.
 
I can't imagine they would work as 'tidily' as a collie, but it would be fun to train one, surely? And you could get it to do that running on the sheeps back thing. :-)
 
Clodagh said:
I can't imagine they would work as 'tidily' as a collie, but it would be fun to train one, surely? And you could get it to do that running on the sheeps back thing. :-)
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Yeah the problem is I haven't seen any (yet) who work as stylishly as a collie and tend to hash the sheep around. They are also known to be vocal which is a definite down side.
 
There are quite a few kelpies in agility as they are fast and able to beat the collies. I have seen a couple being trained and one was very biddable but his half brother was very hard and very very vocal. No ecperience of them on sheep
 
The farmer next door to me has a black and tan one he is a lovely dog very friendly, he had been trained with sheep before they got him but the farmer is having lessons with him so he can learn how to direct him, I have seen him with the sheep and he tends to just make them run around not herding as such not like a collie does but I thought they were mainly used to drive the sheep anyway so I suppose he is doing his job.
 
WorkingGSD said:
Thanks everyone. I quite fancy one but hubby is not playing ball at the moment!
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When ever we take a breed of dog and from it's national environment, DON'T ask me why, but it never really works. The German Springers and Labs aren't a touch on ours! Our own sheepdogs are all that we need. Huntaways and Kelpies work well in their homelands, but here we have collies and they're what work best. I'd be with your hubby!

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
When ever we take a breed of dog and from it's national environment, DON'T ask me why, but it never really works. The German Springers and Labs aren't a touch on ours! Our own sheepdogs are all that we need. Huntaways and Kelpies work well in their homelands, but here we have collies and they're what work best. I'd be with your hubby!

Alec.
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and yet I am told that the English and Irish setters in Europe are much better.

Are kelpies bred to do the exact same job as a BC? I hadnt heard before they are a droving breed. Seems to me that kelpies and huntaways are for a different job which most owners would take into account I would hope.
 
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Alec Swan said:
When ever we take a breed of dog and from it's national environment, DON'T ask me why, but it never really works. The German Springers and Labs aren't a touch on ours! Our own sheepdogs are all that we need. Huntaways and Kelpies work well in their homelands, but here we have collies and they're what work best. I'd be with your hubby!

Alec.
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Interesting theory - and there might even be something in it! :D
 
MotherOfChickens said:
and yet I am told that the English and Irish setters in Europe are much better.

Are kelpies bred to do the exact same job as a BC? I hadnt heard before they are a droving breed. Seems to me that kelpies and huntaways are for a different job which most owners would take into account I would hope.
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Kelpies are bred for the same job as border collies but in such different terrain and conditions and that is perhaps why the very different styles and uses? In Australia they do seem to talk much more about yard dogs (kelpies) and heading dogs (border collies) so it could be that over time it was found the collies were much better gatherers and kelpies more useful in the pens/yards.
 
WorkingGSD said:
Kelpies are bred for the same job as border collies but in such different terrain and conditions and that is perhaps why the very different styles and uses? In Australia they do seem to talk much more about yard dogs (kelpies) and heading dogs (border collies) so it could be that over time it was found the collies were much better gatherers and kelpies more useful in the pens/yards.
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well my n of one says they are better yard dogs than on the hill. Maybe you should ressurrect an old Scottish droving breed ;)

have you ever trained a beardie?


seems to me that with dogs (and horses) people who are an enthusiasts of that breed are prepared to overlook or work with any foibles-or indeed don't see them as foibles.

(not just with working dogs-how many times do we say/read 'I love XX, they are the best dogs-of course recall is an issue and they kill strangers but they are always so cheerful'! Of course they're cheerful, they're bledy dogs! ;) )
 
I haven't trained a beardie but my hubby had one over 20 years ago and hasn't seen one to impress him since.

ha! I think you are right - enthusiasts of any breed will overlook any faults or foibles or just work with them. My GSD is a useful yard and pen dog so perhaps I will forget the kelpie idea (as my OH is so against them) and stick with collies.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
and yet I am told that the English and Irish setters in Europe are much better.

Are kelpies bred to do the exact same job as a BC? I hadnt heard before they are a droving breed. Seems to me that kelpies and huntaways are for a different job which most owners would take into account I would hope.
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Setters are bred to be HPR in Europe, and not here, so different rather than better maybe? Although they are very show bred over here now I suppose. Did the kennel club ever improve a breed!?
 
Just a minor correction, the Labrador as a dog was first imported in to this country, from Canada though more likely from Newfoundland which is a separate breed which the early Labradors resembled.

The Labrador Retriever is an entirely British produced and developed breed of dog and those Labradors which now reside in Canada are almost all from imported British stock. The Labrador Retriever is an amalgam of several breeds of which the original Newfoundland is probably at the base. Just as Alsatians were named after an area, it would be silly to say that they originated from Alsatia, which doesn't even exist, so the Labrador Retriever was given a name and even if they were called Canadian Retrievers, that would be equally misleading because the breed is of entirely British design and concept.

No need to thank me, just attempting to dispel more myth and ignorance! :)

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Just a minor correction, the Labrador as a dog was first imported in to this country, from Canada though more likely from Newfoundland which is a separate breed which the early Labradors resembled.

The Labrador Retriever is an entirely British produced and developed breed of dog and those Labradors which now reside in Canada are almost all from imported British stock. The Labrador Retriever is an amalgam of several breeds of which the original Newfoundland is probably at the base. Just as Alsatians were named after an area, it would be silly to say that they originated from Alsatia, which doesn't even exist, so the Labrador Retriever was given a name and even if they were called Canadian Retrievers, that would be equally misleading because the breed is of entirely British design and concept.

No need to thank me, just attempting to dispel more myth and ignorance! :)

Alec.
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Ain't Wikipedia useful :D
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I dunno, are the KC responsible for making a working breed unfashionable for working?
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I'm not sure that it's actually the KC but the breed societies who have taken a dog which evolved and was bred to work, attached their own agendas and now produce animals which are a barely recognisable as the same breed. The breed societies do of course have the backing of the KC, so few are beyond criticism.

As a footnote, apart from those breeds which were originally bred as ornaments, most breeds have a history of being bred to fulfil a purpose.

Alec.
 
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