Worried about something quite outside my control

skinnydipper said:
I wouldn't be pushing him to meet the family, he needs to be at ease in the current set up first.

I hope they listen to the dog and go at his pace.

They might want to look at Kendal Shepherd's Ladder of Aggression so that they can spot the early signs that he is uncomfortable and take heed.

I hope very much that it works out.
Click to expand...

The difficulty is the dog has already sussed that biting unfavourable (in his eyes) humans is an effective method of controlling their behaviour and thus relieving whatever fear the human unintentionally creates in the dog. That is going to be difficult and time consuming to correct.🙂
 
Blazingsaddles said:
The difficulty is the dog has already sussed that biting unfavourable (in his eyes) humans is an effective method of controlling their behaviour and thus relieving whatever fear the human unintentionally creates in the dog. That is going to be difficult and time consuming to correct.🙂
Click to expand...

Did you quote my post in error?
 
Well in fairness we're only getting the OP's account of the neighbour's perception of what happened.
I deal with a lot of people who can't see or don't want to see that the dog in front of them is unhappy/stressed/uncomfortable, even if their paw is dangling, their ears are wrapped and their eyes are rolling back in their heads.
It could be that the dog has been giving them big red flashing neon warning signs from day one, but they don't know enough or don't want to acknowledge them.

There are dogs I can spot, that I don't want to be anywhere near, the moment they exit the car, other people seem to want to fling themselves on these dogs for a cuddle.

ETA Whilst I'm realistic about the risks/the highs and lows of training, and I have a battery of jokes about the subject, I don't like getting bitten. It hurts like hell, it carries huge infection risk and I need my hands for work. The first time I was bitten properly (and I managed to make it into my 30s before this happened, which is a minor miracle, despite living with and training Big Dogs since I was a nipper) I resolved to try not to let it happen again. It has, of course, and every time, I learn a little more about how to avoid it the next time.
I don't know why anyone would put themselves in a position where it would happen repeatedly.
 
Last edited:
And to be fair I have no idea what is actually happening, it is all hearsay.

To agree with people not knowing what's wht. A friend rehomed a labrador and posted lots of photos of it having cuddles, ready to go for a walk, that sort of thing. I am a total novice yet could see the dog was completely petrified. As CC said people see what they want to see.
 
Blazingsaddles said:
No. Apologies, I wasn’t clear. I was referring to the ladder of aggression. The first attack occurred due to another dogs noisy reaction to a person passing the house - there were no warning signs - the dog went straight to the top of the ladder.
Click to expand...

CC's post puts it far better than I can.

If we forget about the breed for a moment and think about what the dog has been through and then we can try and understand why he was reactive.

This dog has been under a huge amount of stress and the owners have just ploughed on with their own agenda regardless.

A dog that intends to bite does not miss. People should never think "Oh, if I hadn't moved my hand/jumped back/ or whatever I would have been bitten" - if you weren't bitten it is because the dog did not intend to bite. I forget the exact number but a dog can bite about 20 times in 5 seconds, 3 to 4 times a second. Also if he had intended to do serious damage he would have done so.

Redirected aggression is not uncommon. We have a lab and a cockerpoo live 3 doors down. They throw themselves at the window or side gate if I pass with my dog (she is not special - they do it to all passing dogs). The lab turned and bit the cockerpoo in frustration because it could not reach my dog. (I don't subject her to unnecessary stress and only walk up the road now :(.)
 
Last edited:
Clodagh said:
And to be fair I have no idea what is actually happening, it is all hearsay.

To agree with people not knowing what's wht. A friend rehomed a labrador and posted lots of photos of it having cuddles, ready to go for a walk, that sort of thing. I am a total novice yet could see the dog was completely petrified. As CC said people see what they want to see.
Click to expand...

It makes me cringe when I see the photos of babies and children hugging and crawling over dogs, when with one glance at the dog you can see it is totally stressed and unhappy. Next news the parents will say the dog bit the child without warning.
 
That's all fairly normal testing for a dog intended for law enforcement or tactical work.
A criminal might try and escape through water, climb over things, might knock things over/on top of the dog, try and fight him off, of course, someone being bitten will scream and shout etc etc so the dog has to sustain the hold under immense stress.
Some sports simulate these stresses, if even in a very diluted way.
That's a dog that wouldn't worry me too much. Didn't pay any attention to any of the other people who were not agitating him and seemed to have a good positive relationship with the handler.

((Deleted link as per Skinnydipper's point that it's off topic))
 
Last edited:
CorvusCorax said:
That's all fairly normal testing for a dog intended for law enforcement or tactical work.
A criminal might try and escape through water, climb over things, might knock things over/on top of the dog, try and fight him off, of course, someone being bitten will scream and shout etc etc so the dog has to sustain the hold under immense stress.
Some sports simulate these stresses, if even in a very diluted way.
That's a dog that wouldn't worry me too much. Didn't pay any attention to any of the other people who were not agitating him and seemed to have a good positive relationship with the handler.
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining. I can appreciate the skill required to train a dog to that level.

I'll just continue to bumble about with lure and reward ;)
 
So far it sounds to me that everyone surrounding that poor dog is as dumb as a box of rocks..!!!!
They are all expecting far too much too soon.
I have a fair amount of experience with giant breeds of many varieties and the "pack leader" crap works less on flock guardians than others. They are bred to be independent thinkers, working alone and being self sufficient. They often get labelled as "stubborn" but why the hell would, or indeed should, a dog bred to work on it's own instincts have any trust in your opinions..?? That's not how their brains are wired to work.
They can be great pets with the right owners BUT very few people are the right owners.
Sounds to me like this whole debacle is going to end very badly for everyone. Poor, poor dog 😥😥😥
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
So far it sounds to me that everyone surrounding that poor dog is as dumb as a box of rocks..!!!!
They are all expecting far too much too soon.
I have a fair amount of experience with giant breeds of many varieties and the "pack leader" crap works less on flock guardians than others. They are bred to be independent thinkers, working alone and being self sufficient. They often get labelled as "stubborn" but why the hell would, or indeed should, a dog bred to work on it's own instincts have any trust in your opinions..?? That's not how their brains are wired to work.
They can be great pets with the right owners BUT very few people are the right owners.
Sounds to me like this whole debacle is going to end very badly for everyone. Poor, poor dog 😥😥😥
Click to expand...

Great post, really good to see someone talking from experience & understanding (without being anthropomorphic) the dogs point of view
 
I trained a ASD when lived in Turkey he was a lovely boy bought to guard the area around the basement of the apartment .
I taught him some basic commands and socialised him with the janitors children took him out and about enough to get him confident .
One day while I was out they cut off half his ears with scissors poor boy .
They are a dog of the Anatolian plateau they run with the sheep or goats in with the herd and come back down to the villages in the evening I have seen them working they are magnificent they will take on wolves .
However they not inside dogs imo they have super thick coats poor dog it’s not his fault .
 
Belated update.
The behaviourist was useless and just suggested things they were already doing.
The dog is settling in well and has stopped trying to kill the neighbour over the garden fence,. he now sits down quietly when told to do so.
Thats about all I got, it was an 'in passing' conversation. I hope it does work out though, it sounds like its going the right way.
 
splashgirl45 said:
lets hope so....and that the dog has a good quality of life and isnt shut away from everyone....
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that being shut away is the worst thing that can happen to an antisocial dog. I had a very neurotic kelpie x heeler years ago and she was always shut away when people came round, she much preferred it.
He is with their dogs normally I gather and they are all walked together. I am not saying you are wrong about his quality of life, I do hope he is adjusting.
 
Just watching a show on Channel 5...Anatolian piss discourages cheetahs from hunting and killing the goats they protect. Wherever they go, they mark their territory and that keeps the big cats away from the livestock. Can't think why anyone would think a type of dog with that sort of commanding presence would fit seamlessly into an average pet home....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top