Would you buy a horse with sarcoids?

windand rain

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Not for that much unless it was exceptional and worth another zero without a sarcoid. It would also depend on the type of sarcoid as some can be simply cured with a castration band
 

EquestrianFairy

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It is an exceptional horse but obviously failed the vetting on them.

I’m torn between firstly buying him with a sarcoid and secondly, what offer to make now he has failed the vetting on them.
 

windand rain

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Perhaps about 3/5 grand reduction it seriously reduces his value but if he is what you want it might be you should ask for what it would cost to treat over a few years as their existance will mean he isnt insured for them.
 
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G&T

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I would never never buy another horse with a sarcoid, as you never know how many they’ll end up with, or where! Having had several lasered off a young mare, and most recently spending thousands on electro-chemotherapy for small sarcoids near eye and mouth (not a location you can laser, and couldn’t leave them if I wanted to keep riding the horse) I am of the view that its a massive gamble and you have to be able to afford to lose your money on the horse. It’s also a constant worry that another ones going to pop up if the horse gets stressed/run down etc. I hate the things with a passion now!
 

ihatework

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Yes I would and it would completely depend on how competitively priced the horse in front of me was to start with and what type and where the sarcoids were.

Last one I bought with sarcoid had 2 nodular and I negotiated £1250 off an already cheap unproven horse.

A couple of years ago I was involved in helping buy a young horse for a syndicate. 25k for a 5yo. We didn’t buy it in xrays but it also had a sarcoid and had the xrays been clean we wouldn’t have expected to get anything off but might have tried our luck at 2k

The one before that was a proven competition horse and had a flat one in inner thigh. I didn’t even try to get money off because it had been dormant the 2 years I had known the horse.

I think when they are young, unproven and expensive that is where the uncertainty comes in. If the horse proves itself then very few experienced people care. If however the horse is a bit duff and you need to sell as an amateurs all rounder then you loose a hell of a lot of £.
 

ycbm

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I would never never buy another horse with a sarcoid, as you never know how many they’ll end up with, or where! Having had several lasered off a young mare, and most recently spending thousands on electro-chemotherapy for small sarcoids near eye and mouth (not a location you can laser, and couldn’t leave them if I wanted to keep riding the horse) I am of the view that its a massive gamble and you have to be able to afford to lose your money on the horse. It’s also a constant worry that another ones going to pop up if the horse gets stressed/run down etc. I hate the things with a passion now!


I am moving in this direction, coming to the end of treating fourteen or fifteen on a horse who suddenly popped out multiples after having had two successfully treated the year before, after a stressful period of constant 'disappearances' of his companions which were rehomed one by one over a period of a month.

I would still buy a horse with two where you mention, depending on what type they were, but if he's genuinely worth fifteen without them, I'd want ten with them, and only then if I could afford to lose the ten and buy another and go through that heartache.
 

ycbm

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It is an exceptional horse but obviously failed the vetting on them.

I’m torn between firstly buying him with a sarcoid and secondly, what offer to make now he has failed the vetting on them.


He's presumably unproven as an eventer at five because he can't event properly until five and the season is still very new. . If he was successful at young horse classes I wouldn't buy him anyway for fear of how much he did too young to get him to a winning position in those events.

Since you stand to lose a lot anyway if he is unsuccessful, and presumably won't sell if he is successful, then that would make me more likely to buy him.
 

Goldenstar

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Yes I would and it would completely depend on how competitively priced the horse in front of me was to start with and what type and where the sarcoids were.

Last one I bought with sarcoid had 2 nodular and I negotiated £1250 off an already cheap unproven horse.

A couple of years ago I was involved in helping buy a young horse for a syndicate. 25k for a 5yo. We didn’t buy it in xrays but it also had a sarcoid and had the xrays been clean we wouldn’t have expected to get anything off but might have tried our luck at 2k

The one before that was a proven competition horse and had a flat one in inner thigh. I didn’t even try to get money off because it had been dormant the 2 years I had known the horse.

I think when they are young, unproven and expensive that is where the uncertainty comes in. If the horse proves itself then very few experienced people care. If however the horse is a bit duff and you need to sell as an amateurs all rounder then you loose a hell of a lot of £.

This really tells it like it is .
The treatment is expensive and you never get rid of the potential for more popping up.
EF ask your self can you afford the disaster that is G£Ts experiance , I have bought loads of horses with sarcoids .I have never had a disaster but I have incurred considerable expense.
Good Exceptional horses are rare can you afford the risk ,I would go for it but only you can decide if the risk is acceptable to you .
If you go for it you need to keep the horse very calm happy and healthy feed make sure everything in it health plan is as good as you can get it the right friends the turnout everything .
I always feed mine the forage plus supplements and they are vaccinated for herpes every six months so they are less likely to pick up minor virus that stress the immune system .
Get the horse to a really experienced specialist vet to treat them ( if you buy the horse now there’s still time before the flys ) .
Stress is really something to be carefully managed in these horses .
Like I said I would go for it , I could afford a disaster financially and emotionally thats what you have too think through .
 

AmyMay

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You’ll get lots of different answers, and there’s not a right answer as it were.

The question you have to ask yourself though is, are you prepared for possible expensive ongoing treatment and can you afford to write off the purchase price if the sarcoids ultimately become a real problem?

£15k is also a huge amount of money to spend for an amateur competing generally in local classes. Does your shopping criteria really warrant spending that amount?
 

Red-1

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On principal I won't buy one with sarcoids, especially for an unproven one. I won't pour my blood/sweat/tears into something that may then not be able to do what my blood/sweat/tears has brought the training up to do. There are enough risks in bringing on a young horse without adding a risk that is avoidable.

I have made an offer on an older horse with a sarcoid before. It was already doing exactly what I wanted so no blood/sweat/tears to get where I wanted. I offered half the asking price, which was already discounted by several K because of the sarcoid - but the owner had been self treating and it was active, so I was very cautious. I was not overly disappointed when I was turned down.

I know I have been strongly disagreed with when I have said this before, and I have not reacted as I guess everyone has a different level of risk.

All that aside, when I bought Jay Man I would have had him sarcoid or not. That was the original love over the stable door, he was absolutely beautiful and I paid a LOT of money for him despite the fact he was incredibly naughty for incredibly talented and professional people. That was a heart purchase, he did not have a sarcoid but even if he had 2 heads he would have been coming home with me!

Not an exact science this horse buying!
 

EquestrianFairy

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He's presumably unproven as an eventer at five because he can't event properly until five and the season is still very new. . If he was successful at young horse classes I wouldn't buy him anyway for fear of how much he did too young to get him to a winning position in those events.

Since you stand to lose a lot anyway if he is unsuccessful, and presumably won't sell if he is successful, then that would make me more likely to buy him.

He did the Young classes yes, badminton and burley (sp?!)
 

blood_magik

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I did - I bought a proven 5yo for a little bit more than that about a month ago and factored the price of treating his sarcoids into the purchase price.

He had them lasered (big one on his belly and a few around his sheath area) last week. It cost me about £600, which included the cost of hiring the machine.
 

EquestrianFairy

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I should add.. it’s not a purchase for myself.. a friend is looking for some opinions and I was replying on her behalf.

She was due to view it but it was sold before she had chance, it failed the vetting on sarcoids (apparently it had passed flexions etc) so the seller rang her and offered her to come view again.

It is an exceptional, talented, proven horse who has competed at the age classes.

If I had £15k to spend, it wouldn’t be on a horse right now, it would be on a holiday to help me get over loosing my £6k I spent on a broken one 😂.
 

ycbm

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He did the Young classes yes, badminton and burley (sp?!)


We've had quite a few comments of the forum in the past couple of years about how rarely winners of the young horse classes go on to be successful. I don't know how true that is myself, but I would probably be looking it up. I would worry about how much work he did, potentially too young, to get him to a high placing in those classes. But that nothing to do with sarcoids, of course.
 

ihatework

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He did the Young classes yes, badminton and burley (sp?!)

A 4yo that has done BYEH and is on the market for only 15k is one purely to make a bit of money. It either wouldn’t be on the market or would be double that if it was really talented.

Therefore this is an amateurs allrounder.

And at 5, for 15k and a sarcoid it is an expensive one.

I’m not saying don’t buy it. But you need to seriously love it.

ETA - I watched every 4yo in the ring at Burghley, so happy to try and dig into my memory archives if you pm me the name and breeding
 

Goldenstar

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It’s I think that young horse classes are not the best indicator for eventer at the top top level however under that level I think you will find many more .
Of course Primores Pride won the four and five yo championship and he’s was about as successful as you could get .
 

Goldenstar

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I should add.. it’s not a purchase for myself.. a friend is looking for some opinions.

If I had £15k to spend, it wouldn’t be on a horse right now, it would be on a holiday to help me get over loosing my £6k I spent on a broken one 😂.

It’s a gamble any horse is a gamble .
I once did not buy a very young horse expensive horse because it failed the vet on the lunging on the hard it went on to be very successful I ought to have been braver it was exceptional but it’s feet where badly cared for .
But it was an exceptional raw talent not a produced for young horse classes one that would but me off a horse .
But it’s the buyer gamble to take and only they can weigh up all the pro and cons .
 

ycbm

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I did - I bought a proven 5yo for a little bit more than that about a month ago and factored the price of treating his sarcoids into the purchase price.

He had them lasered (big one on his belly and a few around his sheath area) last week. It cost me about £600, which included the cost of hiring the machine.


I'm reluctant to write this as it sounds a bit narcy, but it is to help the current poster and future readers, so apologies if it upsets you.

Failure to resolve them on the first treatment is very common. Popping out more if the immune system is at all compromised, including by stress causing by simple things like leaving home, is very common, especially in a horse who already has multiples. My best vet says multiples are a different kettle of fish to singles.

I think the reasoning is that one is most likely one infected fly bite which had been contained, whereas multiples in different areas suggest that the virus is spread around the horse and may pop out anywhere.
 

AmyMay

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Say she loved this horse and wants to put an offer in-

What type of offer would be suitable given it has two sarcoids now?

I think she firstly has to ask the sellers if they’re open to offers.

But I guess it’s priced to sell, so she could try a cheeky offer of £12, but be prepared to pay £14.5
 

ycbm

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Say she loved this horse and wants to put an offer in-

What type of offer would be suitable given it has two sarcoids now?


This is such a tough question. The horse is ready to event right now, presumably, and she may have her heart set on that. In which case, if she can afford to lose it, he's worth full price.

If she can't afford to lose at least half of it if it turns out she doesn't like him for any reason, then she needs to walk away.

And a whole load of other options in between.

I think she needs to talk to them to see if they think they have already priced him to allow for them.
 

be positive

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I should add.. it’s not a purchase for myself.. a friend is looking for some opinions and I was replying on her behalf.

She was due to view it but it was sold before she had chance, it failed the vetting on sarcoids (apparently it had passed flexions etc) so the seller rang her and offered her to come view again.

It is an exceptional, talented, proven horse who has competed at the age classes.

If I had £15k to spend, it wouldn’t be on a horse right now, it would be on a holiday to help me get over loosing my £6k I spent on a broken one 😂.

I would want to be certain it had only 'failed' because of the sarcoids, I find it rather hard to imagine a scenario where an experienced owner and a buyer, spending that money so presumably also fairly experienced, both failed to see two sarcoids, the one on the sheath should have been easily spotted by anyone, I would go in with my eyes open and definitely vet it again if a purchase went ahead.
I would want to love it and not be too taken in by the young horse performances, has it been out yet this season to prove it has trained on?
 

ycbm

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I would want to be certain it had only 'failed' because of the sarcoids, I find it rather hard to imagine a scenario where an experienced owner and a buyer, spending that money so presumably also fairly experienced, both failed to see two sarcoids, the one on the sheath should have been easily spotted by anyone, I would go in with my eyes open and definitely vet it again if a purchase went ahead.
I would want to love it and not be too taken in by the young horse performances, has it been out yet this season to prove it has trained on?



You've been a little bit cryptic there BP, maybe. Are you talking about the kind of situation where the vet has a gut feeling that the horse is a wrong'un in some way, and can't hand on heart fail the horse technically on the day, so is making a big thing out of the sarcoids?

So you would want a second vetting by a different vet?
 

Goldenstar

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I think she firstly has to ask the sellers if they’re open to offers.

But I guess it’s priced to sell, so she could try a cheeky offer of £12, but be prepared to pay £14.5

OMG no not nearly enough of a reduction
I would say 10 and perhaps stretch to 12
I have easily spent 5k on Fatties sarcoids over the years .
There’s no way I would buy a young competition horse with sarcoids on a 500 reduction .
 

be positive

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You've been a little bit cryptic there BP, maybe. Are you talking about the kind of situation where the vet has a gut feeling that the horse is a wrong'un in some way, and can't hand on heart fail the horse technically on the day, so is making a big thing out of the sarcoids?

So you would want a second vetting by a different vet?

The vet doesn't always communicate fully with the seller so they may only have part of the story, the most obvious part that is there to be seen, I would either want to see the certificate which is down to the previous buyer to release or another vetting for a horse of this value I certainly wouldn't buy it without one or the other and if it is to be insured it will need a new one anyway.
 

ycbm

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The vet doesn't always communicate fully with the seller so they may only have part of the story, the most obvious part that is there to be seen, I would either want to see the certificate which is down to the previous buyer to release or another vetting for a horse of this value I certainly wouldn't buy it without one or the other and if it is to be insured it will need a new one anyway.

I get you. I missed the bit about it failing for someone else. Dohhh.

I agree, definitely another vetting, in case the first one was doing what I wrote in post 25.

.
 

Goldenstar

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EF friend must have her own vetting when you deal with buying a horse with a problem you still need a contract with a vet who tells you the rest of the horse is ok .
If I where her I would get the vet to photograph the sarcoids and get a specialist to advise before she makes an offer .
She needs to have a frank discussion with the vendors if the horse was up at 15k and previous buyer walked the vendors need to wake up and smell the coffee .
There’s lots of good new treatments for sarcoids but they cost £££ .
 
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