Would YOU pay £10,000 for a horse that weaves

[Some People]

What on earth is the point in trying to have a reasoned debate when you have quite clearly stated you won't listen to a word anyone with an opposing view has and you clearly just want a fight?

If you don't buy a horse that weaves as it is rewarding the awful neglect and suffering it must have endured, do you not buy any horse with any issue or vice?

If it bites, it been beaten and forced to defend itself?

Bad to catch = must have been attacked with a headcollar?

Difficult to load = must have been abused in a horsebox?

Bucks when ridden = must have badly fitting tack?

Pulls when ridden = must have poor teeth?

Paws the floor = must have been tied up for weeks on end at some point?

I assume you only ever buy absolutely perfect horses as any bad habit or behaviour you accept would surely be rewarding the previous mismanagement of the horse?

Your response is as ridiculous to me as evidently mine was to you!

Firstly we were not talking about a green youngster here, but a well schooled horse which was sold for 10K.

No horse is born bad as someone has already stated, just bad owners/trainer/riders. Vices and issues are born from either objection or ill treatment, either because the horse is not comfortable or afraid.

When a horse rears, it does not do so for fun. It does it in objection, mostly through either pain or fear.

The above applies to most situations regarding objection or refusal. To beat a horse into submission is NOT the answer, as vices/issues can and do develop.

If we do not listen to what the horse is saying, issues can and do arise. It is the way we deal with what the horse is saying before the issue/vice arrives which prevents such issues.

I am not about to instruct, nor talk you through preventing or dealing with each point you make. But what I will say is a good deal of problems horses develop is down to the rider/owner.

Someone can buy a perfectly good horse and it will be ruined and develop issues within a matter of months. If a horse is difficult, some person or thing made him that way.

I believe everyone owning, loaning or taking care of a horse, should have a licence to do so and sit an exam in order to obtain said licience!

And No, I would not buy a horse with any issue. Mine have none, so why would I try to correct a problem some ignorant person created?

If I needed another brilliant horse, I would buy a youngster or breed one and raise it the correct way, so it develops into a well adjusted, capable horse such as the ones I own already.

 

[Vickijay]

People don't pay 10k for 'a horse that weaves' they pay 10k for a horse that does A,B,C and D and happens to weave. If it weaves then so what? Personally petty stable vices don't put me of a horse, if it moves, jumps and has a good attitude to work then who cares really? Its still worth the asking price if it does what it says on the tin.

This ^^

 

[millitiger]

Your response is as ridiculous to me as evidently mine was to you!

Firstly we were not talking about a green youngster here, but a well schooled horse which was sold for 10K.

What has that got to do with the price of bread? I didn't mention the age of the horse...

No horse is born bad as someone has already stated, just bad owners/trainer/riders. Vices and issues are born from either objection or ill treatment, either because the horse is not comfortable or afraid.

Agreed, again you seem to be preaching though and how do you judge 'not comfortable?'

When a horse rears, it does not do so for fun. It does it in objection, mostly through either pain or fear.

Really? What about horses which rear when playing in the field? I watched the foal at the yard the other day turning herself inside out with lots of rearing when loose in the field with her mum and she was having a super time

The above applies to most situations regarding objection or refusal. To beat a horse into submission is NOT the answer, as vices/issues can and do develop.

Again, who mentioned beating a horse? I haven't said that is the answer to any issue, let alone weaving.

If we do not listen to what the horse is saying, issues can and do arise. It is the way we deal with what the horse is saying before the issue/vice arrives which prevents such issues.

In most cases I would agree. But as YOU pointed out, the horse in the OP was an older horse so perhaps the person selling it did not cause the weaving to begin?
And the point is, once a horse has a vice what do you do with it? You cannot turn back time and remove whatever caused the vice in the first place so what would YOU do and what do you propose people do with horses which already weave, like the one in the OP?

I am not about to instruct, nor talk you through preventing or dealing with each point you make. But what I will say is a good deal of problems horses develop is down to the rider/owner.

Someone can buy a perfectly good horse and it will be ruined and develop issues within a matter of months. If a horse is difficult, some person or thing made him that way.

Absolutely agree but again totally off the topic.
I have schooled a lot of problem horses who turned out to have no problems at all apart from their owners!
But the point is it wouldn't stop me buying a horse if it showed behaviour I didn't like- if anything my experience has made me more inclined not to worry so much about behavioural issues.

And No, I would not buy a horse with any issue. Mine have none, so why would I try to correct a problem some ignorant person created?

If I needed another brilliant horse, I would buy a youngster or breed one and raise it the correct way, so it develops into a well adjusted, capable horse such as the ones I own already.

You really have absolutely perfect horses? Really?

They have 100% perfect conformation without a single thing you would change?

They honestly have never displayed any behaviour you felt was unacceptable at any point?

 

[TarrSteps]

Just to be pedantic . . .

Horses DO rear for fun. I'll agree it's a VERY unusual source of the behaviour under saddle but I've seen a few, especially colts for particular lines but not always, who display it as their default "whee haw" reaction, in the way another horse might toss its head or hump its back on a crisp day. Not saying it's desirable and obviously it's not even under discussion when the horse is showing any other signs of fear/confusion/discomfort but yes, I've seen horse "stand up" with a smile on their face.

On the "no bad horses" front . . .I agree with the theory completely (and make my living from it ) BUT I have known at least one family of "mad right out of the box" horses and have heard stories of others from people I trust. (Perhaps I've met others and didn't have the background to know for sure, I have no way of knowing.) They all grew up on the stud I started horses for so I knew where they were and who handled them (along with about 30 other foals a year) their whole lives, they had the same sires as many other horses I knew. . . and they all had the same dam. And they were all properly, dangerously mad. They weren't vicious, but they did things that made your hair stand up, things "normal" horses don't do, like climb up walls until they put bone chips in their ankles, and run around the school, smashing into the walls and falling over repeatedly, and flipping over (NOT rearing) at mild stimuli. Interestingly, they all looked normal but I eventually met the mare and SHE looked like the sort of person you'd cross the street to avoid! Now, she may very well have been a victim of circumstance, although even that's debatable because she'd been a broodmare on this stud her whole life so it could only have been an isolated incident or perhaps an innate problem. (Which also goes against the "man made" theory, I guess.)

Just to be REALLY pedantic, if we're going to say that horses which display a vice have only been made insane, with no innate predisposition, then are we also arguing that people have no biological inclination towards or away from specific mental illnesses? Evidence would suggest to the contrary. Even if you're going to make it all about nurture, is that only ever about people? Bi-polar disorders appear disproportionately in people who have suffered the loss of a parent during a very specific period of development but then this predisposition also seems to run in families . . . nature or nurture. Both, obviously.

 

[Some People]

What has that got to do with the price of bread? I didn't mention the age of the horse...



Agreed, again you seem to be preaching though and how do you judge 'not comfortable?'



Really? What about horses which rear when playing in the field? I watched the foal at the yard the other day turning herself inside out with lots of rearing when loose in the field with her mum and she was having a super time



Again, who mentioned beating a horse? I haven't said that is the answer to any issue, let alone weaving.



In most cases I would agree. But as YOU pointed out, the horse in the OP was an older horse so perhaps the person selling it did not cause the weaving to begin?
And the point is, once a horse has a vice what do you do with it? You cannot turn back time and remove whatever caused the vice in the first place so what would YOU do and what do you propose people do with horses which already weave, like the one in the OP?



Absolutely agree but again totally off the topic.
I have schooled a lot of problem horses who turned out to have no problems at all apart from their owners!
But the point is it wouldn't stop me buying a horse if it showed behaviour I didn't like- if anything my experience has made me more inclined not to worry so much about behavioural issues.



You really have absolutely perfect horses? Really?

They have 100% perfect conformation without a single thing you would change?

They honestly have never displayed any behaviour you felt was unacceptable at any point?

I am not about to take up a debate with you one this that and the other. I made my point and so have you.

What you have not taken into account is Yes, this thread was started about one particular horse, but it progressed to horses in generally, or did you not bother to read individual posts.

It then moved on to how, why, because and conditions owners kept there horses. So why are you nit picking over one horse which we know nothing about, save it was 10K weaves and producing some good results?

So yes, when I spoke of youngsters, that is exactly what I meant. The seed is sown mostly when they are young, but if bought as 100% vice free due to handling, riding or treatment vices/issue can and do occur. What part of that did you not understand?

As for how do I know when a horse is comfortable, simply because the horse is not displaying any signs of being any other, even an idiot could deduce that one.

Horse rear in fields, of course they do, but a well schooled horse with manners would never do that under saddle, unless in pain or frightened. Again portraying signs of distress, pain or fear?

I never said YOU mentioned 'beating' in your response, it is you whom have mentioned that of mine? Duhhhh

I also dispute I mentioned, or apportioned who caused the horse in question to weave, yes it could have been bought the first time round as a weaver, who knows? I said I would not buy one as it would be condoning practice. I cannot stop nor prevent anyone else from buying one.

It is like anything, let's take the greying gene, it will take years and years to prevent and halt that, breeders have started and in time leopards and the like will retain their spots, greys their dapples, whitening will be prevented. One has to start somewhere.

Whilst I agree weaving has been linked to genetics, but not all weaving is genetic.

As for instructing you on how to prevent vices/issues, it was you that listed a totally irrelevant list of issues and totally removed from my response, but I will forgive you. I was merely commenting, so not totally off topic as you say.

And yes my horses are perfect and brilliant, but who mentioned conformation, not I. I was speaking about vice/issue free. It was you who has mentioned conformation. So would you say bring conformation into the mix is totally off topic!

And NO, my horses have NEVER EVER displayed any unacceptable behaviour, this is because I treat them with respect and kindness and they return it with manners and good behaviour!

I am now going to see to my beautiful horses, because they are beautiful and they deserve my time!

 

[EAST KENT]

I had a beautiful show cob mare,no bad habits whatever.She then went on "show livery" for competition.She was a fence leaner,so her days there were spent either stabled/ridden or on a walker.She had an intelligent mind,and once home I found it quite distressing that her frustration had caused her to learn a constant up and down head shake in the stable. What we do to horses sometimes in the pursuit of competition is just not right.

 

[Some People]

I had a beautiful show cob mare,no bad habits whatever.She then went on "show livery" for competition.She was a fence leaner,so her days there were spent either stabled/ridden or on a walker.She had an intelligent mind,and once home I found it quite distressing that her frustration had caused her to learn a constant up and down head shake in the stable. What we do to horses sometimes in the pursuit of competition is just not right.

How right you are.
Tears sting my eyes when I read things like this. How dreadful for your beautiful horse and how terrible for you.

 

[Onyxia]

There should be more horse women with your conpassion! Fancy it not bothering those/some 'as long as it does it's job'!

What would you do with a weaver?
No thought to how the horse feels or why it started weaving, clearly through sheer neglect and it does not matter if it was genectic or not. If people did not drive these horses to such an extent and use them as machines for their own gratiforcation, then these issue's probably would not arise, or at the very lease be worked on.[/quote]
The thread was about the decision to purchase a horse that is known to weave-it's post purchase management is a different issue

I for one would NOT support this by buying a horse that clearly is
/has been distressed in the mind and probably too frightened to refuse to perform, as it probably realises it would be beaten/whipped/locked up in the stable for god knows how long and probably out of view of it's kind. Horses are herd animals, they willingly allow us to ride them and in return we should be thankful for the pleasure. Not use them as tools/machines and most certainly not support those who cause these issues, nor reward them by saying, it's okay' as long as it performs, does well, no one will care and most will buy it...so Hey Ho, I can carry on doing this to this poor animal!

Oh? And what would you do with a weaver?

There is no reason a horse that weaves can't have a full working life no there is no reason not to buy it if it is able to do what you want.
Noone buys a horse just to have about the place,so it's abilty to do something that the buyer wants is first priorty but I don't know anyone who would not put a LOT of carefull thought into the management of a weaver.

Now lets sit back and read how many of you will be up in arms and disagree. Give it your best shot, I know how I feel and there should be more like me. If you cannot get the best out of your horse with kindness...Give it up!

On the last part t least I agree,but ti is of no relavence here :crazy:
The sitution in the OP was horse weaves, would you buy it knowing that.......

 

[Onyxia]

I believe that stable vices are mental illness, just like a child that rocks obsessively.

Choose your back up to this statement carefully

Most children that rock/hop/fidgit ect are simply doing it because it stimulates the vestibular system and it is a pleasurable experiance for them NOT brain damage or mental illness.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

Im in a firm believer in performance first!

I dont care about stable vices as long as the horse isnt plain nasty and does its job when ridden.

I do have issues with ridden vices though as ultimately thats what the horse is bought for.
I also will not have overly nasty horses on my yard - plenty of nice ones out there to be worrying about the next bite or kick aimed in my direction!

So, if the horse was perfect in every other way, yes i would buy it.

 

[Ibblebibble]

No horse is born bad as someone has already stated, just bad owners/trainer/riders. Vices and issues are born from either objection or ill treatment, either because the horse is not comfortable or afraid.




And No, I would not buy a horse with any issue. Mine have none, so why would I try to correct a problem some ignorant person created?

trip trap trip trap so you say no horse is born bad and vices are all down to human intervention / cruelty/neglect, don't disagree with you there, but then you blow it all completely by stating quite clearly that you wouldn't help a single one of these horses because you don't feel the need to correct someone elses problem!!!!!!
obviously your compassion for horses only stretches to your own!!!!!!!!
sounds like a troll, smells like a troll, yep it's a troll

 

[Puppy]

So, Pale Rider, Pinkvboots and Some People are all the same person then

 

[Pale Rider]

So, Pale Rider, Pinkvboots and Some People are all the same person then

So disagreeing with the vices don't matter so long as it does it's job means we are all the same troll like person.

Horses that haven't been treated like hamsters don't weave.

These threads get better and better.

 

[Honestly]

trip trap trip trap so you say no horse is born bad and vices are all down to human intervention / cruelty/neglect, don't disagree with you there, but then you blow it all completely by stating quite clearly that you wouldn't help a single one of these horses because you don't feel the need to correct someone elses problem!!!!!!
obviously your compassion for horses only stretches to your own!!!!!!!!
sounds like a troll, smells like a troll, yep it's a troll

What is a troll? Is it the same as a trog?

 

[Some People]

trip trap trip trap so you say no horse is born bad and vices are all down to human intervention / cruelty/neglect, don't disagree with you there, but then you blow it all completely by stating quite clearly that you wouldn't help a single one of these horses because you don't feel the need to correct someone elses problem!!!!!!
obviously your compassion for horses only stretches to your own!!!!!!!!
sounds like a troll, smells like a troll, yep it's a troll

Just another silly statement!
I said I would not buy a horse that weaves! Full stop!
Meaning I would not buy a horse that weaves.

I did not say I would not help a horse that weaves!!!
Simply... I would not buy one which did, as I think it lines the pockets of those whom feel it does not matter if their treatment of the horse causes it to weave, because it will sell anyone as long as it performs!

One could look at it, that if weaving horses were worthless, perhaps those who treat them in a way, so to cause the problem, would be more thoughtful in the way they manage the horse.

What would happen to all these poor horses who currently weave is a different debate and whilst relevant to this one, it was not what is currently being discussed! Perhaps you would like to start a separate one and openly share your view.

If I had an orchard full of money trees I would shake them in order to obtain enough money to buy and help a good many horses! So kindly do not assume to know the level of my compassion, because quite frankly you do not!

Am I a troll...why would you think that, is that your response to posts you do not agree with or are you saying anyone who does not share your opinion, must therefore be a troll? It is my opinion, I was not enlisting others nor forcing them to share mine.
I am entitled to have one, otherwise what are these forums about?

So roll your eyes as high as you like, at least mine are not closed!

 

[templewood]

No horse is born bad as someone has already stated, just bad owners/trainer/riders. Vices and issues are born from either objection or ill treatment, either because the horse is not comfortable or afraid.

When a horse rears, it does not do so for fun. It does it in objection, mostly through either pain or fear.

Someone can buy a perfectly good horse and it will be ruined and develop issues within a matter of months. If a horse is difficult, some person or thing made him that way.

I believe everyone owning, loaning or taking care of a horse, should have a licence to do so and sit an exam in order to obtain said licience!

And No, I would not buy a horse with any issue. Mine have none, so why would I try to correct a problem some ignorant person created?

If I needed another brilliant horse, I would buy a youngster or breed one and raise it the correct way, so it develops into a well adjusted, capable horse such as the ones I own already.

If you had ever bred any animal you would know that they can indeed be born bad.

Horses do rear for fun. I have an Appy x PRE mare that rears and walks on her hind legs when playing in the field with her friends.

Horses can be difficult without being made that way by a person. It's just their personality. Just as it is with some people!

If no one bought any horse with an issue, then most horses would have to be destroyed. Is this a kind, compassionate attitude?

Good luck on creating a perfect horse from a youngster or one you breed yourself. Your obviously an amazing horseperson!

 

[Pale Rider]

If you had ever bred any animal you would know that they can indeed be born bad.

Horses do rear for fun. I have an Appy x PRE mare that rears and walks on her hind legs when playing in the field with her friends.

Horses can be difficult without being made that way by a person. It's just their personality. Just as it is with some people!

If no one bought any horse with an issue, then most horses would have to be destroyed. Is this a kind, compassionate attitude?

Good luck on creating a perfect horse from a youngster or one you breed yourself. Your obviously an amazing horseperson!

So you've bred a horse.

No one is talking about natural play behaviour of horses in the field such as rearing and bucking. But it says a lot if you think horses playing are born bad, you are obviously not an amazing horse person.

 

[millitiger]

I am not about to take up a debate with you one this that and the other. I made my point and so have you.

What you have not taken into account is Yes, this thread was started about one particular horse, but it progressed to horses in generally, or did you not bother to read individual posts.

It then moved on to how, why, because and conditions owners kept there horses. So why are you nit picking over one horse which we know nothing about, save it was 10K weaves and producing some good results?

So yes, when I spoke of youngsters, that is exactly what I meant. The seed is sown mostly when they are young, but if bought as 100% vice free due to handling, riding or treatment vices/issue can and do occur. What part of that did you not understand?

As for how do I know when a horse is comfortable, simply because the horse is not displaying any signs of being any other, even an idiot could deduce that one.

Horse rear in fields, of course they do, but a well schooled horse with manners would never do that under saddle, unless in pain or frightened. Again portraying signs of distress, pain or fear?

I never said YOU mentioned 'beating' in your response, it is you whom have mentioned that of mine? Duhhhh

I also dispute I mentioned, or apportioned who caused the horse in question to weave, yes it could have been bought the first time round as a weaver, who knows? I said I would not buy one as it would be condoning practice. I cannot stop nor prevent anyone else from buying one.

It is like anything, let's take the greying gene, it will take years and years to prevent and halt that, breeders have started and in time leopards and the like will retain their spots, greys their dapples, whitening will be prevented. One has to start somewhere.

Whilst I agree weaving has been linked to genetics, but not all weaving is genetic.

As for instructing you on how to prevent vices/issues, it was you that listed a totally irrelevant list of issues and totally removed from my response, but I will forgive you. I was merely commenting, so not totally off topic as you say.

And yes my horses are perfect and brilliant, but who mentioned conformation, not I. I was speaking about vice/issue free. It was you who has mentioned conformation. So would you say bring conformation into the mix is totally off topic!

And NO, my horses have NEVER EVER displayed any unacceptable behaviour, this is because I treat them with respect and kindness and they return it with manners and good behaviour!

I am now going to see to my beautiful horses, because they are beautiful and they deserve my time!

I mentioned conformation as you said you had perfect horses- if we are not to buy horses that weave as it condones the act of weaving should we not also never buy horses with a conformational fault as that condones breeding horses with faults, however minor?

Clearly you have no debating skills as you cannot back up your points or opinions and simply call people who disagree with you idiots or use clever reasoning such as 'durrr'- very mature

I listed other behaviours as imo if we write off horses who weave because we don't want to be seen to condone the owners who caused the issue, we also have to write off 99% of horses in the world, as so far I have never met the perfect horse- in behaviour, conformation, temperament etc (obviously apart from your two).

 

[Ibblebibble]

Am I a troll...why would you think that, is that your response to posts you do not agree with or are you saying anyone who does not share your opinion, must therefore be a troll? It is my opinion, I was not enlisting others nor forcing them to share mine.
I am entitled to have one, otherwise what are these forums about?

So roll your eyes as high as you like, at least mine are not closed!

lol, ohhh the troll bites too, and a troll is someone who goes on a forum purely to wind up others, their 'opinion' is designed to cause argument and they'll never answer a straight question with a straight answer, rather they will spout copious amounts of psycho babble to try and make themselves appear more intelligent than they are.
trying to wind me up won't work, i worked with children, i'm immune to it

 

[Pale Rider]

lol, ohhh the troll bites too, and a troll is someone who goes on a forum purely to wind up others, their 'opinion' is designed to cause argument and they'll never answer a straight question with a straight answer, rather they will spout copious amounts of psycho babble to try and make themselves appear more intelligent than they are.
trying to wind me up won't work, i worked with children, i'm immune to it

Not good calling folk trolls, looks like working with children has had an effect on your behaviour as well. Childish or what!!

 

[templewood]

So you've bred a horse.

No one is talking about natural play behaviour of horses in the field such as rearing and bucking. But it says a lot if you think horses playing are born bad, you are obviously not an amazing horse person.

I never said horses playing are born bad! How on earth did you conclude that? I'm wondering if we have followers of the moustach here. It's the only answer I can think of for such unreasoned argument!

 

[YasandCrystal]

Choose your back up to this statement carefully

Most children that rock/hop/fidgit ect are simply doing it because it stimulates the vestibular system and it is a pleasurable experiance for them NOT brain damage or mental illness.

I agree with this! Horses and people under stress will do something repetitively as a comfort. Why does PaleRider thinks that is so weird? To calm an animal it is common to use a soothing phrase over and over again. It's not hard to think of everday examples. No mental illness involved.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Personally I hate the idea that people will put up with 'quirks' for the sake of competition, or 'doing the job'.

We give undevisive names like stable vices, for brain damage and mental illness, just to make ourselves feel better about it.
Even if the damage is caused through breeding it is still our responsibility, not the horses.

You very obviously don't compete and have no understanding of the serious competition horse.
Compare a high academic scientist with the lab technician. I bet the lab technician will have more practicality in his little finger than the brainy scientist. Quirky ....yes.

 

[Pale Rider]

You very obviously don't compete and have no understanding of the serious competition horse.
Compare a high academic scientist with the lab technician. I bet the lab technician will have more practicality in his little finger than the brainy scientist. Quirky ....yes.

Big erroneous assumption here.

And your point is??

Have put quite a few serious competition horses back together after some pretty useless serious competition riders have done their best, or worse, rather.

 

[Some People]

If you had ever bred any animal you would know that they can indeed be born bad.

Horses do rear for fun. I have an Appy x PRE mare that rears and walks on her hind legs when playing in the field with her friends.

Horses can be difficult without being made that way by a person. It's just their personality. Just as it is with some people!

If no one bought any horse with an issue, then most horses would have to be destroyed. Is this a kind, compassionate attitude?

Good luck on creating a perfect horse from a youngster or one you breed yourself. Your obviously an amazing horseperson!

If some horse owners/handlers/trainer/riders treated their horses with more understanding, respect and were not so hell bent on whipping/spurring/kicking/rushing/forcing their horse so badly, merely to perform or get the best out of it, you woud have no reason to use the word 'distroyed'!

 

[Some People]

If you had ever bred any animal you would know that they can indeed be born bad.

Horses do rear for fun. I have an Appy x PRE mare that rears and walks on her hind legs when playing in the field with her friends.

Horses can be difficult without being made that way by a person. It's just their personality. Just as it is with some people!

If no one bought any horse with an issue, then most horses would have to be destroyed. Is this a kind, compassionate attitude?

Good luck on creating a perfect horse from a youngster or one you breed yourself. Your obviously an amazing horseperson!

Had you bothered to read the entire post, you would have seen I was not referring to genetics.

I repeat NO HORSE IS BORN BAD, just bad owners/trainers/handlers/riders!!!!!!"

I am not saying all horses are born without a genetic disorder, be it mental or otherwise, but like I said, we had already stated 'with the exception of genetics'!

Having said that. I come from a long line of horse breeders. My ancestors bred them and I expect the generations which follow will continue to do so.

And yes, all my horses are perfect in everyway, including temperament and conformation. If we all treated our horses in a better kinder and respectful way, then horses who are GENETIC FREE would not develop major issues/vices.

Finally thank you realising my ability and complimenting me on just how amazing I am as a horseperson and yes I have bred and reared youngsters to have wonderful temperaments, fantastic conformation, ability and guess what VICE FREE!

 

[Some People]

I mentioned conformation as you said you had perfect horses- if we are not to buy horses that weave as it condones the act of weaving should we not also never buy horses with a conformational fault as that condones breeding horses with faults, however minor?

Clearly you have no debating skills as you cannot back up your points or opinions and simply call people who disagree with you idiots or use clever reasoning such as 'durrr'- very mature

I listed other behaviours as imo if we write off horses who weave because we don't want to be seen to condone the owners who caused the issue, we also have to write off 99% of horses in the world, as so far I have never met the perfect horse- in behaviour, conformation, temperament etc (obviously apart from your two).

Just another assumption.

Where does it say I have two horses? Actually I have a yard full, we breed them! And have done so for generations.

Clearly we must be doing something right as buyers would not pay thousands for one of our horses, nor our stud fee, nor would there be a waiting list for one of our fantastic horses!

 

[Some People]

lol, ohhh the troll bites too, and a troll is someone who goes on a forum purely to wind up others, their 'opinion' is designed to cause argument and they'll never answer a straight question with a straight answer, rather they will spout copious amounts of psycho babble to try and make themselves appear more intelligent than they are.
trying to wind me up won't work, i worked with children, i'm immune to it

Ohhhh Yes my first thought was that you worked with children, what age group I do not know, but infant springs to mind.

I assume when teaching the ABC, you do not just throw the whole alphabet into a pot, letting the children tip the pot upside down so the letters fall iggly piggle, inside out, back to front, upside down and so no order of assembly.

Moral being...Grasppppppppppppp theeeeeeeee concepttttttttttttttttt
If you did not quite understand that...

Grasp the concept!

 

[pheline]

Personally I hate the idea that people will put up with 'quirks' for the sake of competition, or 'doing the job'.

We give undevisive names like stable vices, for brain damage and mental illness, just to make ourselves feel better about it.
Even if the damage is caused through breeding it is still our responsibility, not the horses.

So then obviously a habit such as biting fingernails makes all of us humans brain damaged too?
It's a habit more than anything else, due to boredom. I am guilty of biting my fingernails when I am bored/stressed, so therefore please excuse me while I go and receive some treatment for my malfunctioning brain.

 

[Honestly]

So then obviously a habit such as biting fingernails makes all of us humans brain damaged too?
It's a habit more than anything else, due to boredom. I am guilty of biting my fingernails when I am bored/stressed, so therefore please excuse me while I go and receive some treatment for my malfunctioning brain.

I do not think 'Pale Rider' was saying horses with issues have a brain/mental, problem. I read it that 'Pale Rider' was saying many owners/sellers portray/mask these issues as a genetic/mental issue and will/do not accept the issue could be human related.