Would you take offence at this?

[Meowy Catkin]

I have to wonder, if this lady was so offended by small holed haynets, how would she react to a pony that needs to wear a grazing muzzle?

Or a pony like one I know who has cushings and has recovered from laminitis. The owner is working so hard to get the pony's weight, medication and feed correct to keep the pony laminitis free. Grass free turnout, all forage weighed etc...

I think the issue of work is an interesting one too. It has been mentioned on here before that people often overestimate how much work their horse is doing. So they'll then feed for hard work (via feeding levels suggested on the bag?) when their horse just isn't in that category. This maybe warps their perception further?

 

[SEL]

I think the issue of work is an interesting one too. It has been mentioned on here before that people often overestimate how much work their horse is doing. So they'll then feed for hard work (via feeding levels suggested on the bag?) when their horse just isn't in that category. This maybe warps their perception further?

I have one who I consider to be in 'no work' - she has a soft tissue injury so does up to 30 mins in hand (walking out, poles, various exercises etc) every day depending on how she is going. That is still more than most of the 'in work' horses do on our yard which I find entertaining.

She is also fat and spends most of her life in a muzzle or surrounded by electric fencing. Thankfully no longer by a footpath because I found the muzzle removed a few times via buckles being undone - my mare is not capable of undoing buckles.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Your horses look fantastic..!!!
So glad your vet was able to explain things to this lady. In fairness to her it can be so confusing as a first time owner and being told so many contradictory things...though it's probably better to keep your mouth shut about other people's horses but then, again in her defence, it takes some guts to bring up concerns (she seems to have felt genuinely justified in doing so..??)...alot of people will ignore welfare issues for fear of being "that person".
Hopefully she will now take a long, hard look at her own horse and make some changes. Maybe you could befriend her and help her a little..?? Xx

 

[Birker2020]

It drives me mad that people say my horse is fat when in actual fact you can just about make out her ribs. She just hasn't been schooled for years so everything has gone south and she bloats with grass if she so much as sniffs at a blade of grass. She's not in work and hasn't been in 'work' for about three years now.

She doesn't look fat to me anyway!

 

[DirectorFury]

Great update Winters, we need more vets like that!

I think the issue of work is an interesting one too. It has been mentioned on here before that people often overestimate how much work their horse is doing. So they'll then feed for hard work (via feeding levels suggested on the bag?) when their horse just isn't in that category. This maybe warps their perception further?

I freely admit that I fell into this trap as a novice owner - my horse was doing much more work than any others on the yard, and they were being fed for light-medium work, so by that logic I fed for hard work. What I didn't notice was that the other horses were obese, and it was only after mine piled the weight on and I did some reading on here that I realised my calibration for work levels was totally off.
As the saying goes, you don't know what you don't know!

Edit - a quick google has given this chart from the BHS: https://www.bhs.org.uk/advice-and-information/horse-care/horse-health-and-fitness
What they call hard work I'd probably consider medium tbh.

 

[maggiestar]

What a lovely update! Your vet sounds fab, it was very good of him to take the time to educate her. Hopefully she's learned something and gets her own horse down to a suitable weight.

 

[Fjord]

I love the update OP, that couldn't have gone better if you'd planned it! Hopefully she will take notice about her horse and do something to get him to lose weight.

Yours look great in the photos, not skinny at all, just perfect.

 

[PapaverFollis]

The vast majority of horses on livery yards I've known would barely be in light work by any official chart. Owners feeding competition mix "for energy" when they should have just been getting the horse fit instead... mine are worked daily but we're a long way from being out of the "light" into the "medium" work category.

 

[Esmae]

You don't need to justify your feeding to this lady at all. You sound like you manage your horses weight carefully and with a vet on board, there is no further discussion required. I would tell her your horses are well managed and mind her own business.

This completely.

 

[Merrymoles]

I'm sadly in the category of only dreaming that I'll be able to see a rib, with a very good doer who is still on only walking exercise after a year off due to injury. He has changed shape a fair bit but he has fat pads on his shoulders and no ribs that I can find by any stretch of the imagination. However, his usual apple bum has a very small cleavage and he has no crest, both of which are a bit of a comfort. He is out 24/7 on our winter fields with no hay and gets two miniscule feeds a day of soaked grass pellets to keep him occupied while his old field mate stuffs a full bucket of feed down.

I would be so proud if he looked like your horses OP that I probably would have been so offended that I would have let rip about how fat hers is. That said, your method was much better and hearing it from a vet is likely to be much more effective in the long term!

 

[ycbm]

Edit - a quick google has given this chart from the BHS: https://www.bhs.org.uk/advice-and-information/horse-care/horse-health-and-fitness
What they call hard work I'd probably consider medium tbh.

I agree. For me, hard work is 4 hours a day with 1 day off. Hunting a full day twice a week with 2 rest days and three other days 1-2 hours solid exercise. 9 hours a week would only be hard work if it was almost all done at speed or uphill (did Escher design horse exercise tracks?) .
.

 

[Velcrobum]

Your horses look very well including your older "poor" doer. Hopefully after your Vet giving her an education she will mull over his words and learn from them. Is she by any chance overweight herself? Over the many years I have been around horses both at livery and in competition I have observed a commonality that fatter people often have fatter horses and skinny people often have leaner horses. Then of course there is showing nuff said.
Are you based abroad??

 

[zandp]

Someone feeding him without your permission - wow. People are insane sometimes.

One of my friends has some horses with severe metabolic issues, diet is severely restricted and 1 yard the only other livery used to feed him regularly, ending up poisoning him with some food or other (never found out what) because she thought he was too skinny. Friend left the yard after the YO refused to do anything about it, and spent hundreds of pounds on vet treatment to get the digestive system right again and the horse healthy. I then worked for a bit with the other livery and she was totally insane and really horrible.

 

[Kat]

I agree. For me, hard work is 4 hours a day with 1 day off. Hunting a full day twice a week with 2 rest days and three other days 1-2 hours solid exercise. 9 hours a week would only be hard work if it was almost all done at speed or uphill (did Escher design horse exercise tracks?) .
.

I agree, mine does about 8 - 9hrs a week and I don't think she's even in medium work unless we are hunting.

In my mind hard work is horses in hunt service, hunting once a week or more, in race training, or higher level eventers. Medium would be most serious competition horses, and those hunting more gently. Most leisure horses will be in light or light/medium work. Three or four steady hacks a week of under an hour each does not require serious hard feed, but many horses get buckets of mix when this is all they do.

 

[Winters100]

Your horses look fantastic..!!!
So glad your vet was able to explain things to this lady. In fairness to her it can be so confusing as a first time owner and being told so many contradictory things...though it's probably better to keep your mouth shut about other people's horses but then, again in her defence, it takes some guts to bring up concerns (she seems to have felt genuinely justified in doing so..??)...alot of people will ignore welfare issues for fear of being "that person".
Hopefully she will now take a long, hard look at her own horse and make some changes. Maybe you could befriend her and help her a little..?? Xx

Yes, on reflection I thought the same. Although it was incredibly irritating I don't think that it was malicious. I saw her today and she seemed very red faced, avoiding me and not looking at me. To break the ice I asked her to help me put some food in a bin (didn't really need help, I just thought it was an easy way to show that I was not holding a grudge). Anyway we chatted, I asked was she feeling better about my horses, and did things make more sense now. She said they did, but that she doesn't know where to start with her own horse, so I lent her an old haynet and told her to start with that, to try moving him more and to cut his hard food to a token handfull of chaff. I am not sure how easy she will find it as she is a very nervous rider, and also incredibly anxious about the horse being hungry, so it is not a good combination, but anyway I don't like bad feelings on the yard so much better to take the first step to being friendly and see what happens

 

[Keira 8888]

Yes, on reflection I thought the same. Although it was incredibly irritating I don't think that it was malicious. I saw her today and she seemed very red faced, avoiding me and not looking at me. To break the ice I asked her to help me put some food in a bin (didn't really need help, I just thought it was an easy way to show that I was not holding a grudge). Anyway we chatted, I asked was she feeling better about my horses, and did things make more sense now. She said they did, but that she doesn't know where to start with her own horse, so I lent her an old haynet and told her to start with that, to try moving him more and to cut his hard food to a token handfull of chaff. I am not sure how easy she will find it as she is a very nervous rider, and also incredibly anxious about the horse being hungry, so it is not a good combination, but anyway I don't like bad feelings on the yard so much better to take the first step to being friendly and see what happens

You are such a kind thoughtful person Winters xx

 

[Winters100]

Your horses look very well including your older "poor" doer. Hopefully after your Vet giving her an education she will mull over his words and learn from them. Is she by any chance overweight herself? Over the many years I have been around horses both at livery and in competition I have observed a commonality that fatter people often have fatter horses and skinny people often have leaner horses. Then of course there is showing nuff said.
Are you based abroad??

Well I would say that she is maybe a bit over 'average' weight, not slim but not obese. Only thing I did notice, and I hope it doesn't seem mean mentioning it, is that her daughter is I guess between 10 and 12 years and quite overweight, so that did make me wonder, because at that age they are usually running around so much that it is hard for them to get this way. Maybe lockdown and home schooling had an effect though.

Edited to add that our yard is split into 3 different areas, 'English style' boxes that open to the outside which are occupied by horses with respiratory problems, 1 barn which is dressage and recreational horses, and the one that I keep mine in which is for sport horses. In the other barn I hate to say but probably 80 or 90% of the horses are quite a lot fatter than I would let mine be, some of them considerably so. The owners are mixed, some try to manage the weight and face genuine difficulties, others like the way they look and say that they are fine. So to be fair it must be pretty confusing for a novice owner to speak to others who say that their (in my opinion overweight) horses are fine, and then to see my much leaner ones, and be told that they are also fine. When my vet was showing her my 'average' horse her first reaction was a horrified 'but I can feel his ribs!' - well yes, thank goodness!

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Yes, on reflection I thought the same. Although it was incredibly irritating I don't think that it was malicious. I saw her today and she seemed very red faced, avoiding me and not looking at me. To break the ice I asked her to help me put some food in a bin (didn't really need help, I just thought it was an easy way to show that I was not holding a grudge). Anyway we chatted, I asked was she feeling better about my horses, and did things make more sense now. She said they did, but that she doesn't know where to start with her own horse, so I lent her an old haynet and told her to start with that, to try moving him more and to cut his hard food to a token handfull of chaff. I am not sure how easy she will find it as she is a very nervous rider, and also incredibly anxious about the horse being hungry, so it is not a good combination, but anyway I don't like bad feelings on the yard so much better to take the first step to being friendly and see what happens

That's lovely of you Winters, I really think she will feel like she can come to you for help with her own horse now...well fine xx

 

[McFluff]

That's a nice update Winters. Your support of her could save a horse from all the risks of being overweight.
While I'd never approach someone the way she did, I can totally understand why someone is confused with all the conflicting views/opinions out there. If you can be a friendly face for here's how to administer tough love and your horse will benefit, that can only be good.

 

[Reacher]

Loverly updates - am very pleased by the support from the vet (your horses look great).
I’m also very pleased it looks like the lady might be able to learn about what a healthy weight is . Well done for being kind to her

 

[Lois Lame]

It drives me mad that people say my horse is fat when in actual fact you can just about make out her ribs. She just hasn't been schooled for years so everything has gone south and she bloats with grass if she so much as sniffs at a blade of grass. She's not in work and hasn't been in 'work' for about three years now.

She doesn't look fat to me anyway!

View attachment 70798

She is so cute. What is she?

 

[Goldenstar]

Growing up in the pre- internet era, I was 40 years old and saw a young boy from a farm, training a slim black dog. I didn't recognise the breed at first glance, but on closer inspection, I worked out that it was a lab. It seems incredible now, that I thought obese labradors were normal.

On Saturday a lady walking two very obese panting labs asked what my lab was crossed with . Is he Lab crossed whippet ? she said in total innocence .
I really did not know what to say I am so upset fat labs having their lives blighted .

 

[Goldenstar]

Your horses look great .
Fit horses as in hard fit are not seen by people as often now . I wish I could get my ID’s as slim .

 

[Winters100]

Actually while we are talking about fitness I would be really interested to hear opinions on keeping older horses fit. My old girl is of unknown age, the vet say 18 to 20, her passport says younger, but when I bought her even the seller said that it was obviously wrong and I should make my own mind up! She owes me nothing, and can retire at any time, I have always said when I no longer feel the spring in her step she can wind down to just walking in the forest, or if she does not want to be ridden she can walk beside us.

I tend to take the view with her that we work to the level she wants, most days she is full of beans, in fact yesterday was full of energy and just wanted to run. We do get the occasional day where I feel that her heart isn't in it, and then we just take it easy, go for a hack, or sometimes even I will just stop and put her back to the paddock, but this is very occasional.

The thing that I am not sure about is how fit should an older horse be? My gut instinct is as fit as they can be without doing work that they struggle with or risking their soundness, but does anyone have any firm opinions. The vet is happy with her and says that she is great for her age, but when other people tell me that their horses of that age are just hacking I wonder am I asking too much of her? It is quite difficult as she does not show any signs of wanting to slow down, but I really want to do the right thing by her as I owe her so much. She was the horse who got me riding again after a serious accident, carried me safely every day for a year while she rebuilt my confidence, never once spooked or did anything silly, and without this wonderful school mistress I certainly would not be riding today.

Any opinions?

 

[ITPersonnage]

Completely confident that you will know exactly how to treat her

 

[ester]

I used to worry that there wouldn't be signs to slow down but there was one to slow down and later one to stop.

 

[Trouper]

You are such a star in handling your fellow livery in the way you did. She has found a knowledgeable friend and her horses will benefit.
As regards the oldies, I think just let them do what they want to do. You are clearly very observant on how they are feeling day to day so I think it is best just to go with that. As we age (sighs heavily) it is harder to work back up to a level of fitness so it is probably better to try to stay as close to the top as possible rather than sink into retirement too early. I think lockdown has shown some of us that all too clearly!!!

 

[Birker2020]

She is so cute. What is she?

Ahh thanks, she is a Belgian stamped Dutch Warmblood, grandsire Nimmerdor. She is 24 now.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Ahh thanks, she is a Belgian stamped Dutch Warmblood, grandsire Nimmerdor. She is 24 now.

What is a Belgian stamped Dutch Warmblood? Is it like bred Dutch but branded and inspected under a Belgian registry? Just curious.


Sorry for the thread hijack ?

 

[Birker2020]

What is a Belgian stamped Dutch Warmblood? Is it like bred Dutch but branded and inspected under a Belgian registry? Just curious.


Sorry for the thread hijack ?

Ha it's ok.

My horse is Dutch bred but because she was born in Belgium she has a Belgian brand on her bum and is the BWP Stampbook . But looking at her ancestry she's more Dutch than Belgian. It's just interesting because it was quite a revelation when I found out she has the same Grandad as Big Star and has Heartbreakers Dad.

She could have gone on to great things had she had a half decent rider And was full of arthritis by the time she was in her teens. That must have come from her Dams side.