Yearling Halter Broken in Under Two Hours..!! :D

[Tnavas]

I often wonder with threads like this how much experience the people posting have had.

Have they only halter broken one or two youngsters

Or have they been involved in the halter breaking of many youngsters.

Hanging out with your yearling is fine if you have all the time in the world. Some of us don't and our horses all turn out fine - the wilder they are to be honest the easier they are to work with. Heavily handled foals tend to lack respect as young teenage friends found out when their now 8 month old foal wanted to play tag with them as they had let him do as a young foal.

I've handled a lot of youngsters having worked in many studs over the years. Step in and hang on has worked everytime. Advance and retreat can be considered stalking as a wild predator. If you have ones that spend too much time retreating from you, you are teaching them to not be caught.

A slightly different example. One of my youngsters was born with 'Ants in his pants' a real fidget that would never stand still. As a yearling he was ignored in the showring as he never stood long enough for the judge to check him over. I'd say stand repeatedly and never get the result I wanted. Then the lightbulb went on! I was actually teaching him that the word 'Stand' meant to him to wriggle around. So now I changed tack. I waited until he was stationary and then said "Stand" It took a while but now aged 8 when asked to stand he places his feet four square and remains still!

I've also worked with a few that have been really bad to catch and successfully used the Parelli method of keeping the horse moving until you have decided to let them stop. Works every time.

Part of having a well behaved horse is them having respect for you and your instructions and intentions. The horse should come to you as soon as he sees you or hears you calling him. I've never had to go and walk across a paddock to catch mine, I call them and stand at the gate. Yet I have always grabbed and held on!

 

[WelshD]

Do you mean Sarah? Sarah has trained countless feral and difficult ponies - several hundred, is in demand all over the UK and written a best selling book on the subject that is regularly recommended on this forum.

I'm not being sarky I'm just aware that with you not being in the UK you may not have heard of Sarah. Apologies if you have.

 

[Tnavas]

Do you mean Sarah? Sarah has trained countless feral and difficult ponies - several hundred, is in demand all over the UK and written a best selling book on the subject that is regularly recommended on this forum.

I'm not being sarky I'm just aware that with you not being in the UK you may not have heard of Sarah. Apologies if you have.

I don't mean anyone in particular!

 

[Dry Rot]

I often wonder with threads like this how much experience the people posting have had.

Have they only halter broken one or two youngsters

Or have they been involved in the halter breaking of many youngsters.

Hanging out with your yearling is fine if you have all the time in the world. Some of us don't and our horses all turn out fine - the wilder they are to be honest the easier they are to work with. Heavily handled foals tend to lack respect as young teenage friends found out when their now 8 month old foal wanted to play tag with them as they had let him do as a young foal.

I've handled a lot of youngsters having worked in many studs over the years. Step in and hang on has worked everytime. Advance and retreat can be considered stalking as a wild predator. If you have ones that spend too much time retreating from you, you are teaching them to not be caught.

A slightly different example. One of my youngsters was born with 'Ants in his pants' a real fidget that would never stand still. As a yearling he was ignored in the showring as he never stood long enough for the judge to check him over. I'd say stand repeatedly and never get the result I wanted. Then the lightbulb went on! I was actually teaching him that the word 'Stand' meant to him to wriggle around. So now I changed tack. I waited until he was stationary and then said "Stand" It took a while but now aged 8 when asked to stand he places his feet four square and remains still!

Exactly. It is the association of words with actions, not a command for the animal to obey. So many novice trainers never really get that.

I've also worked with a few that have been really bad to catch and successfully used the Parelli method of keeping the horse moving until you have decided to let them stop. Works every time.

Part of having a well behaved horse is them having respect for you and your instructions and intentions. The horse should come to you as soon as he sees you or hears you calling him. I've never had to go and walk across a paddock to catch mine, I call them and stand at the gate. Yet I have always grabbed and held on!

Experience? Experience? When ever did having experience have anything to do with being an expert?

One brief traumatic encounter by a prey animal designed to live on it's nerves is not going to make a lot of difference when serious training won't happen for years. Even so, I prefer not to have a confrontation with my foals if it can be avoided. Occasionally, it can't.

Interesting to see documentaries on races who live horses, like the Mongols. They seem to just get out the noose on the end of a stick and it clearly works for them.

 

[SarahWeston]

I would disagree with the "one brief traumatic encounter by a prey animal designed to live on it's nerves is not going to make a lot of difference" - I would say that it definitely can. Horse have to learn from one time events or they would be dead. I have met thousands of horses that have been to the brink (or over it) because of one event. Take a horse that has been frightened by a vehicle, or dogs for example. Why would you want to be part of the problem and not part of the solution? I have trained hundreds of semi-feral foals (and adult ponies) starting off with a long handled feather duster and not been kicked once. The whole point is so that you can be at a distance from their feet initially and that you don't put enough pressure on them for them to feel the need to kick. If you don't turn it into a battle then they don't feel the need to defend themselves.

And...as for keeping my mouth shut, I think this is all a debate worth having, and if someone sees that there is an alternative to restraining a foal in order to force a headcollar on then I've done my job.

As for Mongolian "horsemen" then I would say it depends on what you call horsemen. I'd say a lot of so-called horsemanship is actually hardmanship and that people seem to get a lot of pleasure (and kudos) out of being as hard as they can on horses.

 

[SarahWeston]

Actually...I did get kicked once - it was AFTER I had put a headcollar on an sixteen month old Dartmoor colt and just leaned on the wall to take a photo. He came over to talk to me but when he turned round his leg brushed mine and he kicked out instinctively. Totally my own fault and not his.

 

[Tnavas]

Experience? Experience? When ever did having experience have anything to do with being an expert?

Maybe I should rephrase

How many have had AN experience halter breaking a foal compared to those that have had MULTIPLE experiences halter breaking or do so as a professional handler.

 

[SarahWeston]

I have run halter training or handling the wild foal courses for people here in the New Forest and on Exmoor and Dartmoor. It's one of the most rewarding experiences for people taking part and the trainers too.

 

[Dry Rot]

Maybe I should rephrase

How many have had AN experience halter breaking a foal compared to those that have had MULTIPLE experiences halter breaking or do so as a professional handler.

Thomas Hardy is quoted as saying, "Experience is proportional to intensity, not duration".

I know people who have spent a life time doing things the wrong way!

I think we should all be grateful to Sarah for taking time to post here when she is obviously very busy head collaring hundreds of foals, meeting thousands of ponies, as well as writing her books and giving lectures, though I must confess I'd never heard of her either before today.

 

[SarahWeston]

You could try Googling, however one of the other Sarah Westons is a trans gender pilot working for American Airlines. Please don't confuse the two.

 

[Pen]

Well if I had an unhandled foal I know which method of handling I would plump for and it wouldn't involve a battle of strength. It would be the one that has integrity, works with the foals instincts, and builds trust for a good future - what a good job I've got Sarah's book!

 

[JamOnToast]

Sarah, you may be trying to 'teach a pig to sing' in your eyes, but as a logical horsemanship teacher, you of all people should understand people have many ways of training/haltering horses, just because you believe in one way (monty roberts) does not mean other peoples methods (firm, yet fair) are wrong, fair enough you are trying to promote your softly softly approach, but as you can see from various posters on this thread, another method other than yours works aswell.

 

[popsdosh]

Sarah has not seen me doing it so how can she describe it as forcing a headcollar on to a foal! This is what I find unfair about her interaction on this forum ! Have I once said her method does not work. What I do is very similar but she does not see that but chooses to criticise ,maybe it helps sell books!!
I would love her to come and see me do some and then criticise me! I also have met a few I would love to see her sort out and the time it would take!
all bar one of those had been faffed about with by owners who had bought the book but did not have the common sense or ability to think like a horse.

 

[MissMistletoe]

I've handled a lot of youngsters having worked in many studs over the years. Step in and hang on has worked everytime. Advance and retreat can be considered stalking as a wild predator.

I have to agree with that.

You sometimes need to just get stuck into things with youngsters.

Approach and retreat is providing too much 'grey' area where youngsters operate better with a completely black and white approach.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I think we should all be grateful to Sarah for taking time to post here when she is obviously very busy head collaring hundreds of foals, meeting thousands of ponies, as well as writing her books and giving lectures, though I must confess I'd never heard of her either before today.

!!

 

[Auslander]

I don't see an issue with taking a couple of days to let a newly arrived youngster settle in and figure out whats going, and who the new people are, but equally, I wouldn't hesitate to corner and headcollar a youngster quickly if the situation warranted it.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way. I do however, think its a bit sad that people are being slated by the opposing sides for doing things a different way. Selecting the "Slowly slowly" approach doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing, and choosing to corner and get a headcollar on fast doesn't make you a nasty evil horse person.

 

[WelshD]

Thomas Hardy is quoted as saying, "Experience is proportional to intensity, not duration".

I know people who have spent a life time doing things the wrong way!

I think we should all be grateful to Sarah for taking time to post here when she is obviously very busy head collaring hundreds of foals, meeting thousands of ponies, as well as writing her books and giving lectures, though I must confess I'd never heard of her either before today.

That's a little sharp. The book No Fear No Force is mentioned on here a fair bit as an excellent resource. You may remember Missy who was a feral pony owned by a forum member? That one was helped by Sarah. Maybe not so well known by name but she is well regarded and respected by many. I agree with the theory that more than one method can work but don't think that poking fun or being sarky helps

 

[ester]

I don't see an issue with taking a couple of days to let a newly arrived youngster settle in and figure out whats going, and who the new people are, but equally, I wouldn't hesitate to corner and headcollar a youngster quickly if the situation warranted it.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way. I do however, think its a bit sad that people are being slated by the opposing sides for doing things a different way. Selecting the "Slowly slowly" approach doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing, and choosing to corner and get a headcollar on fast doesn't make you a nasty evil horse person.

Well said!

I have no issue with either method, and no experience of either really, other than I suspect frank would look at me suspiciously if I waved a disembodied glove in his direction . I just felt that suggesting that the corner and headcollar method led directly to youngsters with headcollars embeded was more than a little alarmist .

 

[Spring Feather]

I have no issue with either method, and no experience of either really...

I have no issue with either method and I have experience of both. They both work just fine, however where yearlings are concerned, the 'just get on with it' method works best. For foals the slowly slowly approach works well, and for semi-ferals the slowly, slowly approach can work as well as the 'just get on with it' method.

I personally put no one on a pedestal, not even *gasp* if they have written a book; so did Linda Parelli, Hiltrud Strasser and George W Bush :wink3:

 

[WelshD]

I don't think anyone is putting anyone on a pedestal, I will openly admit that Sarah's methods did not work for me personally but I was trying to point out to those that may not be familiar with Sarah that she does actually have decent relevant experience while others were being dismissive of her opinions and experiences

 

[ester]

TBF that is one of the things I sort of like about this place, open to all for comment .

SF I perhaps feel I should clarify that isn't because I use some totally out there method, more that I've not had much to do with proper babies.

 

[Spring Feather]

I was trying to point out to those that may not be familiar with Sarah that she does actually have decent relevant experience while others were being dismissive of her opinions and experiences

I think you'll find that it was Sarah herself who started the 'being dismissive' of others actually. I'm perfectly open to different ways of doing the same job, it appears Sarah is not ... and that's fine for Sarah, but not fine for me.

Anyhow, the OP did not try Sarah's method, she managed to do what she needed and I know if she continues dealing with the yearling in a kind but efficient manner, then she'll be just fine in the long term :smile3:

 

[Spring Feather]

TBF that is one of the things I sort of like about this place, open to all for comment .

SF I perhaps feel I should clarify that isn't because I use some totally out there method, more that I've not had much to do with proper babies.

I do too! It's good to hear all sorts of different stories from all aspects. No one is saying you must do it my way (well not many of us anyway lol), we're all just giving suggestions; take it or leave it.

You have common sense Ester; you'd be just fine with 'proper babies' :smile3:

 

[popsdosh]

I don't think anyone is putting anyone on a pedestal, I will openly admit that Sarah's methods did not work for me personally but I was trying to point out to those that may not be familiar with Sarah that she does actually have decent relevant experience while others were being dismissive of her opinions and experiences

Nobody and certainly not me have rubbished what Sarah says! However she has made it very clear that she does not agree with anything else and made backhanded accusations about others methods and trying to sensationalise it. Its Sarah who cannot accept there are other ways.
If you have your doubts please read every post again with an open mind thats what I find so b****y unreasonable,she is the one with the blinkered attitude!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I have used Sarah's methods-one a moor-bred, semi-feral Exmoor 9 month old colt. Halter on after four short sessions totalling about 1h. He was in a largish barn at the time with an older pony for company. Absolutely no stalking involved and I am really against those types of NH training that use that sort of method. He was also my first 'real' youngster in that the only handling he'd had was branding and inspection beforehand.

Pony is now a good citizen and 5 years old. I chose Sarah's methods not because I am anti the pin them down and stick it on method as much as I was alone and wanted to make sure got the job done without me getting hurt! I wouldn't hesitate to use the method again tbh on the sort of pony that needs it. It really only takes ages if the person doing it is too much of a numpty to observe behaviour, or if you have a pony thats sensitive or undergone some sort of really bad handling already-which some of these ponies do.

 

[AengusOg]

I don't think the op has much to be proud of at all. The plaudits, although in the majority, are misguided in my opinion. So the head collar is on the yearling, but that is all. The term 'halter broken' is very inaccurate in this instance.

The yearling's mother was taken away, and he found himself alone in the stable with someone who suddenly became predatory in his eyes. He was then subjected to 50 minutes of fear, during which time he became so afraid that he made three unsuccessful attempts to jump the door and at one point actually jumped the door to escape.

He then had to endure a further 30 minutes of trying to dislodge the person clinging to his neck, failing to do so despite rearing and bucking and even resorting to biting in defence.

The owner was then called away urgently, or the animal's ordeal may have gone on even longer after that.

The most important consideration seems to be that the human was uninjured during all this.

That's the jist of it, isn't it, or am I missing something here?

Inevitably there are many ways to force a horse to accept something, and human invention knows no bounds it seems. However, the art of horsemanship lies in achieving acceptance from the horse without force and there aren't so many sensible options to that end as there are roads to Rome.

That time could have been spent working with the yearling in a more humane fashion and the same results arrived at.

 

[popsdosh]

I don't think the op has much to be proud of at all. The plaudits, although in the majority, are misguided in my opinion. So the head collar is on the yearling, but that is all. The term 'halter broken' is very inaccurate in this instance.

The yearling's mother was taken away, and he found himself alone in the stable with someone who suddenly became predatory in his eyes. He was then subjected to 50 minutes of fear, during which time he became so afraid that he made three unsuccessful attempts to jump the door and at one point actually jumped the door to escape.

He then had to endure a further 30 minutes of trying to dislodge the person clinging to his neck, failing to do so despite rearing and bucking and even resorting to biting in defence.

The owner was then called away urgently, or the animal's ordeal may have gone on even longer after that.

The most important consideration seems to be that the human was uninjured during all this.

That's the jist of it, isn't it, or am I missing something here?

Inevitably there are many ways to force a horse to accept something, and human invention knows no bounds it seems. However, the art of horsemanship lies in achieving acceptance from the horse without force and there aren't so many sensible options to that end as there are roads to Rome.

That time could have been spent working with the yearling in a more humane fashion and the same results arrived at.

All that anger !! Calm down dear!!!!

 

[Tally-lah]

I don't think the op has much to be proud of at all. The plaudits, although in the majority, are misguided in my opinion. So the head collar is on the yearling, but that is all. The term 'halter broken' is very inaccurate in this instance.

The yearling's mother was taken away, and he found himself alone in the stable with someone who suddenly became predatory in his eyes. He was then subjected to 50 minutes of fear, during which time he became so afraid that he made three unsuccessful attempts to jump the door and at one point actually jumped the door to escape.

He then had to endure a further 30 minutes of trying to dislodge the person clinging to his neck, failing to do so despite rearing and bucking and even resorting to biting in defence.

The owner was then called away urgently, or the animal's ordeal may have gone on even longer after that.

The most important consideration seems to be that the human was uninjured during all this.

That's the jist of it, isn't it, or am I missing something here?

Inevitably there are many ways to force a horse to accept something, and human invention knows no bounds it seems. However, the art of horsemanship lies in achieving acceptance from the horse without force and there aren't so many sensible options to that end as there are roads to Rome.

That time could have been spent working with the yearling in a more humane fashion and the same results arrived at.

This!