YO advice how to evict a livery

Annagain

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I think it ones from the ‘your yard your rules’ usually means rules are being broken which doesn’t appear to be the case here just lack of communication/atmosphere.

That said as in my first post they should ask him to leave if they don’t want him there but not to use any of the ‘excuses’ suggested. Just say the arrangement isn’t suiting you because it isn’t and give notice.

Maybe being pleasant and talking to fellow liveries and the YO nicely should be a rule! You'd kind of hope it wouldn't have to be!
 

pippixox

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If the atmosphere is really bad then of course give them their notice. But if they simply said hi to you and made changes to make it easier/ like out all summer, would you mind them staying? I think I’m only thinking that because sometimes it’s better the devil you know!!!! He always pays, care greatly for his horse and you don’t have to do small talk with him!

But ignoring you is quite different to just not being chatty. Regardless of suggestions of autism- he can still acknowledge you!!!!

Hope you decide soon and things improve either way, as let’s face it the yard is a sanctuary and should be enjoyable
 
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MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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Now wouldn't it be interesting if the bloke concerned came on here and read all this about himself!!

Having said my piece earlier on here, and having read other comments, my feeling - as a YO myself - is that basically this needs discussion and resolution WITHIN THE YARD and NOT be splayed about on a forum such as this where the person concerned could easily read it! Or someone else could read it and identify the person concerned. That is not fair, or necessary, or professional even TBH.
 

Pearlsasinger

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This guy has been here for 2+ years. It’s gradually escalated and I feel now is more of a controlling thing than a behavioural thing. They have not told me about any ASD or otherwise so I just assume he’s an arrogant, extremely selfish person!! Started off friendly enough until I put my foot down about something then stopped talking to me altogether!! So I feel this is more about pushing the boundaries than not realising what they’re doing, which does annoy me somewhat as it’s just plain rude and they do know better.
Thanks for all of the opinions and advice people I do appreciate it and have lots to consider before I take appropriate action! 😊

Well, that's not autism, that's rudeness! I would give him notice - and I don't think I would extend it either!
 

paddy555

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I think people are being a bit harsh to OP. How any times have yard owners complained about liveries only for people to say "your yard, your rules, if they don't like it they can go." Now, when a YO is trying to do that, she's being told she's being unfair. Even if she is (and I don't think she is) she has every right to be. It's her yard, her home and she doesn't have to share it with anybody she doesn't want to, for whatever reason. Would the rest of you put up with a lodger who refuses to speak to you unless it's to complain about when you get up? Even if this person does have some form of ASD, that doesn't give him the right to treat people badly and he can't expect people to make allowances for him if he hasn't told them he has ASD.

Based on what you said OP, I'd just tell him you don't feel it's working for anybody any more and you'd like him to leave but give him an extended notice period to be nice.


are they being harsh? or are they simply arguing out a problem and coming up with various ideas, one of which may help?
As far as the ASD goes bear in mind it is not quite so simple. A lot of adults are undiagnosed, some even have no idea it is a possibility and even if people are diagnosed many probably don't want to go round telling people.
 
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ester

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Quite Paddy :)

Not necessarily relevant to this particular situation (again!) but making talking a rule would seem almost as cruel as putting up the livery for just him for a lot of people. Pointing out that it shouldn't have to be a rule rather highlights the potential issue, such 'social rules' are not clear to everyone despite their best efforts to identify, follow and have the capacity for them.
 

stormox

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If someone runs a business, say a shop or a hotel, and a customer doesnt speak or is even a bit rude, or is on the autistic spectrum and the staff wont serve them because of this, would this not fall foul of some discrimination law? "The customer is always right" I thought was the general rule.
 

ester

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'Only if they know' is probably the right answer, which is why we get into long drawn out conversations about if and when to inform employers too.
 

Roasted Chestnuts

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Just tell him to go. Aspergers or not rude is rude. My friends son is rather high on the aspergers spectrum and he wouldn’t act like that and he’s a 21yr old now.

I don’t particularly mingle with my fellow liveries but if they want to chat I’ll chat, I don’t particularly see eye to eye on everything with my YM either but we get along fine and I pay my livery and follow the rules and don’t cause issues.

You don’t need to be everyone’s friend but you do need to rub Along with folk.
 
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ester

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Ah an I know someone with ASD and they wouldn't do that so it's not a reason/excuse classic because we are all definitely the same
d050.gif
 

Roasted Chestnuts

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Ah an I know someone with ASD and they wouldn't do that so it's not a reason/excuse classic because we are all definitely the same
d050.gif

Yes Esther because the world is defined by how much you can use a diagnosis to get away with being an arse. You don’t even know if he has it but as an adult it doesn’t give you an excuse to be a w@nk£r.

I work with kids on various spectrums and many who aren’t, guess what ones we actually have more issues with? Do I really need to tell you?? It ain’t the kids on assisted teaching that’s for sure.
 

ester

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*Ester

Honestly, it is the most infuriating thing to read and it unfortunately it comes out everywhere :( it's very reductive, disappointing and upsetting when people cannot see that. Even more so if they have professional awareness.

I think very few people use a diagnosis to get away with being an arse, obviously it doesn't stop them being an arse as well.
Some people are interpreting it as being a wanker, I just happen to know plenty of 'successful', 'functioning' pick your word ASD adults who would really struggle to hold a conversation after a working day, even Hi can become an issue and I think it is helpful for people to know that can be the case.
 

Red-1

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If you do suspect he is on the autistic spectrum, and you are offering a service to the public, I am not at all sure you can discriminate against him for not liking the effects of his (possible) condition. I am not 100% sure if the law, but I believe you may have to offer reasonable adjustments. In his case it may be simply adapting to his not wanting to make small talk.

As far as BB's comment, I have also worked with people with autism, and can say that IME it is different for each individual. Some people are completely non verbal, some speak well, some can read emotions, some can't, some etc etc etc...

Knowing some people with autism won't help much with understanding another individual if you try to lump the possible facets of the condition in together.

TBH, if it were me, I would stop doing morning turnout if that is no longer what you wish to do. If school use is an issue than maybe each livery can have up to 3 hours per horse per week, or pay extra for school use?

If it comes to it, I could even see you stopping competition type livery and concentrating on retirement and leisure liveries, as that is true.

If someone is socially awkward I am not sure it would help at all to try to 'have a coffee' and force talk about social awkwardness. As the difficulties got worse after you had to have a word previously it is possible that he lost confidence to talk to you.
 

The-Bookworm

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Gosh.
Why is keeping yourself to yourself suddenly a problem that needs a diagnosis!
I am believe it or not a very quiet and private person. I am more likely to text than I am stop and chat to folk when I am actually wanting to be with my horse. I got a horse to be with the horse, not to gossip, not to sit and drink coffee and do nothing.
Saying that I do acknowledge people and keep going. Why is that a "bad atmosphere"
 

DabDab

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Gosh.
Why is keeping yourself to yourself suddenly a problem that needs a diagnosis!
I am believe it or not a very quiet and private person. I am more likely to text than I am stop and chat to folk when I am actually wanting to be with my horse. I got a horse to be with the horse, not to gossip, not to sit and drink coffee and do nothing.
Saying that I do acknowledge people and keep going. Why is that a "bad atmosphere"

Yes, I've been reading the description of this guy and thinking that, aside from the fact that I always smile and say hello, the description could be of how I generally am on a livery yard. It's not that I think I'm better than people, it's just that I don't like to get embroiled in other people's horsey lives automatically just because we're on a yard together. And I often text rather than chat because I'm in a rush and don't want to get into a conversation or because I don't want to interrupt the YO in the middle of their daily routine (particularly if they have young kids that they're hurrying back for).

Having said that, if me behaving like this was causing an atmosphere then I wouldn't be offended if the YO told me that and gave me notice.
 

JennBags

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*Ester

Honestly, it is the most infuriating thing to read and it unfortunately it comes out everywhere :( it's very reductive, disappointing and upsetting when people cannot see that. Even more so if they have professional awareness.

I think very few people use a diagnosis to get away with being an arse, obviously it doesn't stop them being an arse as well.
Some people are interpreting it as being a wanker, I just happen to know plenty of 'successful', 'functioning' pick your word ASD adults who would really struggle to hold a conversation after a working day, even Hi can become an issue and I think it is helpful for people to know that can be the case.
I also know plenty of people who are total wankers and don't have any signs of ASD 😂😂
Totally agree with you on this, not everyone with ASD acts in the same way, and to assume that just because someone you know acts one way, that means everyone should, is plain ignorant.

If this man is actually not speaking to you, the YO, I'd think this would make it a good enough reason to ask him to leave. If, however, he just keeps his head down and doesn't socialise with everyone else, then you're just being pretty mean trying to get rid of him quite frankly.
 

The-Bookworm

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Yes, I've been reading the description of this guy and thinking that, aside from the fact that I always smile and say hello, the description could be of how I generally am on a livery yard. It's not that I think I'm better than people, it's just that I don't like to get embroiled in other people's horsey lives automatically just because we're on a yard together. And I often text rather than chat because I'm in a rush and don't want to get into a conversation or because I don't want to interrupt the YO in the middle of their daily routine (particularly if they have young kids that they're hurrying back for).

Having said that, if me behaving like this was causing an atmosphere then I wouldn't be offended if the YO told me that and gave me notice.
I would hope the YO would find a way to communicate rather than throw me off.
I am looking after my horse, keeping to the rules, paying on time. If that's a reason to ask people to leave most of us are doomed!
From what I can see the YO needs to be assertive. They are not happy with the school use, get that message across, they need to alter the contract to not turn out, write a letter.
This person has been there two years, it's a sudden problem or they've not sorted issues as arisen?

As for the atmosphere, if a person doesn't talk how is that creating one- they don't talk. The ones with the issue appear to be the liveries expecting interaction. I smile that's sometimes all I can do. Some of us have social anxiety, but it doesn't always need to be labeled. This livery although happy on the outside might feel bullied and left out on the inside- if male surrounded by females for example.
 

DabDab

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I wouldn't really expect a YO to communicate with me - I'm buying a livery service from them, not a counselling service and wouldn't really appreciate being told how I should interact with other people anyway.
I'd much rather the YO just said 'it's not working, so with regret I need to give you notice' - that then gives me the option of either asking why and then maybe discussing how I could change my behaviour to fit in, or saying 'ok no problem' and leaving on amicable terms. Not everyone needs to get on or see eye to eye on stuff, such is life.
 

Annagain

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are they being harsh? or are they simply arguing out a problem and coming up with various ideas, one of which may help?
As far as the ASD goes bear in mind it is not quite so simple. A lot of adults are undiagnosed, some even have no idea it is a possibility and even if people are diagnosed many probably don't want to go round telling people.
But people on a forum, who have never met this man think they can diagnose him from a brief description of his behaviour and tell someone, who is also unaware of a diagnosis, if there is one, that she’s not making the allowances she should?

We don’t know, she doesn’t know, he may or may not know. My point is, without that information, she can only judge his behaviour on face value and if she doesn’t like it for whatever reason she has every right to ask him to leave her property, for no other reason than it’s her property and she can do what she likes with it.

She’s already lost other liveries because of him, is she supposed to keep going until there’s only him left because he might have ASD in the opinions of a few people who have never met him?
 

ester

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I honestly don’t think anyone has ‘diagnosed’ him, I think people have just introduced that there might be reasons why people don’t talk (including just being rather introvert) or a different perspective. As often happens in threads the discussion moves with that.

To me any suggestion of allowances comes from a place that sometimes that just a nice thing to do. But of course no one has to be like that I’d they don’t want to.

Also people give all sorts of reasons/excuses to leave liveries as we have enough threads about that on here too, they aren’t always the real reason and if another livery comes in (as they have) it seems unlikely she will be left with just him.
 

JFTDWS

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Not necessarily relevant to this particular situation (again!) but making talking a rule would seem almost as cruel as putting up the livery for just him for a lot of people. Pointing out that it shouldn't have to be a rule rather highlights the potential issue, such 'social rules' are not clear to everyone despite their best efforts to identify, follow and have the capacity for them.

I would genuinely hate a rule like that - a rule that you have to "chat" to other liveries?! WTF? How long for? Every day? What if you're late for work, or just heading out, or busy? I'm always in a rush - I'm not there to fanny around chatting to people, I'm there to do my horses. I'm quite happy to say "Hi" and possibly exchange a banal comment about the weather - if (and only if) that other livery is also generally civil to me - and I chat to the YM if we hack out, but that's about it. (Fortunately for me I virtually never see anyone on my yard anyway - joys of having horses living out in a separate field!)

If it isn't working out, just tell him to leave - you don't need an excuse, it's your yard, and your rules.
 

paddy555

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But people on a forum, who have never met this man think they can diagnose him from a brief description of his behaviour and tell someone, who is also unaware of a diagnosis, if there is one, that she’s not making the allowances she should?

We don’t know, she doesn’t know, he may or may not know. My point is, without that information, she can only judge his behaviour on face value and if she doesn’t like it for whatever reason she has every right to ask him to leave her property, for no other reason than it’s her property and she can do what she likes with it.

She’s already lost other liveries because of him, is she supposed to keep going until there’s only him left because he might have ASD in the opinions of a few people who have never met him?
 

Ambers Echo

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I honestly don’t think anyone has ‘diagnosed’ him, I think people have just introduced that there might be reasons why people don’t talk (including just being rather introvert) or a different perspective. As often happens in threads the discussion moves with that.

To me any suggestion of allowances comes from a place that sometimes that just a nice thing to do.

I agree. People make assumptions about the reason behind people's behaviours all the time. In this case that he is rude, arrogant and selfish. Well maybe he is. But sometimes it can be helpful to take a step back and question those assumptions. Maybe he's actually shy, socially anxious or socially awkward. I don;t think people are diagnosing him either - just pointing out that sometimes the way a person comes across is misleading and that might be worth bearing in mind. I certainly would not suggest the OP starts speculating about ASD with liveries!
 

paddy555

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But people on a forum, who have never met this man think they can diagnose him from a brief description of his behaviour and tell someone, who is also unaware of a diagnosis, if there is one, that she’s not making the allowances she should?

We don’t know, she doesn’t know, he may or may not know. My point is, without that information, she can only judge his behaviour on face value and if she doesn’t like it for whatever reason she has every right to ask him to leave her property, for no other reason than it’s her property and she can do what she likes with it.

She’s already lost other liveries because of him, is she supposed to keep going until there’s only him left because he might have ASD in the opinions of a few people who have never met him?

of course no one can diagnose him on a forum it is just that some of the comments about him are telling. Without info she cannot judge his behaviour so, from my POV, the sensible thing to do is to ask him about the situation and then make a decision. I don't understand why she just doesn't ask.

sorry cannot do second quotes but

"To me any suggestion of allowances comes from a place that sometimes that just a nice thing to do. But of course no one has to be like that I’d they don’t want to."

I agree. If he is a wanker chuck him out, no problem. If however he really does have a problem isn't it worth making the effort to find out?

No it is not a care home but a business which means you often have to deal with less pleasant customers.
 

Cortez

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of course no one can diagnose him on a forum it is just that some of the comments about him are telling. Without info she cannot judge his behaviour so, from my POV, the sensible thing to do is to ask him about the situation and then make a decision. I don't understand why she just doesn't ask.

If however he really does have a problem isn't it worth making the effort to find out?

No it is not a care home but a business which means you often have to deal with less pleasant customers.

No one can diagnose except a doctor, and a specialist at that. Whether he has a problem or not is absolutely irrelevant: it is other people who seem to have the problem - with him. So to resolve the problem, ask him to leave.
 
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