YO double renting stable

If ever I became too ill to look after my horse and had to pay for full livery, it bothers me that my horse would no longer have it's own permanent stable for exclusive use.
I've often seen horses where owners are only able to make occasional visits, being stunted around the yard and put in any available box. I'm sure YO wouldn't do this to full livery clients who visit and ride daily, so why is it ok to do it to horses whose owners are too sick to visit or have moved away ?
 
I pay to rent my stable, I pay for the shavings in it, and I paid for the (very expensive) mats that are in it. On top of that, I pay for full livery services. I don't see how the latter should mean I have no say over somebody else using the stable I pay for!

I'd certainly comment if I found my horse moved to a different stable, and for some stables I'd request she was moved back. And I absolutely expect exclusive use of the box I'm renting.
 
I think depends on system used. If box is fully mucked out and water & hay reset between horses then the only problem is flexibility ie wanting to have horse in at different time for certain reason. If on semi deep litter it’d be like horse was in 24/7
 
If I was in that position then I would expect to have been told about it. Just as a courtesy or to avoid any misunderstandings.

If mine were on full livery with bedding etc included then if the YO explained that someone was in a bind and it was a temporary thing to help them out then I wouldn't have an issue with it if it wasn't going to have any impact on my horse.
If it was going to be a long term thing then as others have said that would raise concerns, I have stables available in case of bad weather or injury so if that wasn't going to be available due to overstocking then I'd be pretty annoyed.

I wouldn't expect to see my horses shuffled around to different stables regularly, One in particular would find that very unsettling.
 
Pippity said:
I pay to rent my stable, I pay for the shavings in it, and I paid for the (very expensive) mats that are in it. On top of that, I pay for full livery services. I don't see how the latter should mean I have no say over somebody else using the stable I pay for!

I'd certainly comment if I found my horse moved to a different stable, and for some stables I'd request she was moved back. And I absolutely expect exclusive use of the box I'm renting.
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The point is that you are not renting a box, full livery should include bedding I could not manage if the owner restricted how much I used and I provide mats.
I often move them around, especially when a new one arrives to ensure they get on with their neighbours or are next to the one they go out with or furthest from the straw bedding if one is allergic, they are not moved randomly or frequently and I will explain why they have moved as there will be a good reason, an unsettled horse may settle better in a different box, I only have a few liveries and my main aim is to keep the horses happy, hopefully that keeps the owner happy which is the whole point of full livery.

No horse will be shunted around from box to box any more than they will be from field to field unless it is needed to be to get everything settled, mine recently moved to accommodate 3 DIY horses so they could be stabled next to each other to keep things simple, they are not in at night yet and I know the horses will be more than happy in their new winter boxes, as it happens the DIY is leaving so I can move back to where they were last winter if I choose.
 
I think the way you work it sounds different BP and is for the good of the horses involved rather than for the YO's convenience.

I also think that there are quite a few yards offering what they call full livery but with a cap on either forage or bedding usage or both, and owners have to top that up if they need more, that's a weird hybrid renting/service thing and just makes it all a bit muddled.
 
be positive said:
The point is that you are not renting a box, full livery should include bedding I could not manage if the owner restricted how much I used and I provide mats.
I often move them around, especially when a new one arrives to ensure they get on with their neighbours or are next to the one they go out with or furthest from the straw bedding if one is allergic, they are not moved randomly or frequently and I will explain why they have moved as there will be a good reason, an unsettled horse may settle better in a different box, I only have a few liveries and my main aim is to keep the horses happy, hopefully that keeps the owner happy which is the whole point of full livery.
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My yard is a very different set-up to yours, then. My bill makes it very clear that I pay a certain amount to rent a box, and livery services are an additional cost on top.
 
milliepops said:
I think the way you work it sounds different BP and is for the good of the horses involved rather than for the YO's convenience.

I also think that there are quite a few yards offering what they call full livery but with a cap on either forage or bedding usage or both, and owners have to top that up if they need more, that's a weird hybrid renting/service thing and just makes it all a bit muddled.
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I am 'different';) and have had horses here with owners away for months, the horse is the priority and is treated as 1 of mine in many ways, I want them settled, out with others and it does mean a lot of flexibility to get it right for them all, not that there are that many a max of 15 in summer when I was prepared to take on more work, now a max of around 8-9 with several out 24/7 all year but with a box if required, it is then that there may be a bit of moving about to get the emergency in the right place especially if it needs box rest and needs to have company in at all times I will make that happen one way or another, if it means moving a horse to help another then it will be moved.
 
I should have 24 hours access to a box the same as a DIY. Paying the same base price plus services on top. As someone noted, what happens if injured, was a storm & you needed them in overnight. If I wasn’t using and someone asked if there horse was put in there temporarily then I wouldn’t mind as long as fully mucked out and bedding topped up.
 
Pippity said:
My yard is a very different set-up to yours, then. My bill makes it very clear that I pay a certain amount to rent a box, and livery services are an additional cost on top.
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Mine pay a set rate fully inclusive apart from supplements, wormers, clipping, and any outside professional services, no charge for dealing with the pro, mane pulling, some trimming will be done if wanted and the competition or sales livery will include show or sales prep.
I do assisted at times and that could be able to be topped up to full by paying a daily rate to muck out etc, they would have a box for their own use, buy their own bedding and hay but I would not call that full livery if I was not providing almost everything.
 
ycbm said:
What is the problem with biosecurity? Unless in quarantine, the horses on a yard will normally have some level of contact with each other. My nearest vet hospital doesn't change bed between patients. My horses all live together.
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Yes I realise I am probably being anal........... but it still doesn't sit well with me somehow!
 
Generally I think boxes should only be shared by prior agreement with both or in an emergency.

Twice we have needed to empty some stables on our yard. Once for bio-security reasons and once due to structural issues. Obviously this means some shuffling around and everyone needs to be as flexible as possible in the best interests of the horses. I wouldn't want to be sharing in the normal course of events though.
 
Squidge90 said:
Has anyone had this?

Without my knowledge or say so my YO has been using my stable (I have one horse on full livery) for a friend of hers to keep her horse in overnight before day turnout for the last fortnight at least (mine has been turned out over night and in during the day although this will be changing soon) no shavings have been topped up.

Would you expect this from your YO?
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I would be furious unless of course it was an emergency situation and no other stable available. But then I'm on DIY and quite territorial of my space/things lol. I might feel differently if I were full livery.
 
Has happened to me. I wasn't hugely bothered on a temporary basis because my 2 were living out, but in the space of 48 hours we had 40mm of rain which flooded the field and my mare got one of those abscesses where she looked like she'd broken a leg. So I brought both horses into the stables I was paying for - that caused upset!

I was also a livery at a riding school where they would often use livery stables for the school horses. Again, not an issue if the boxes were cleaned out (usually empty of bedding during summer) but they never were. I had one interesting 'run in' there when one of their team asked me on a Friday night why they couldn't use my stables. Erm - weather shocking, keeping both horses in tonight, fresh beds down. But we ALWAYS use your stables on a Friday night so the RS ponies are dry ready for Saturday lessons. Well not tonight!!

Never again. Allocated stables unless paying for grass livery. Neither of the above yards were cheap, they just had too many horses.
 
I would not be happy with this at all. I'd be glad to be leaving if I were you OP. I'm quite shocked anyone would find it acceptable to be honest...
 
I wouldn't like it if it was a permanent thing, simply because of the potential to need box rest or the lack of flexibility but in these circumstances, as long as you're not being charged per bale of shavings I wouldn't be to exercised about it. It's a bit annoying that she's done it after you said no, but I probably wouldn't have said no in the first place, especially if the horse was already on the yard and therefore already in contact with your horse. You're moving on in a couple of weeks, it's not really affecting your horse's routine so I don't see what good making a fuss now would do.
 
Thanks for all the replies. It’s very interesting to see it’s not as black and white as I maybe thought.

I am more disappointed that the YO didn’t at least give me a courteous heads up that this was about to happen. The reason the horse is staying at the yard is to attend several high profile competitions so I would say high risk from a bio security aspect. I pay for shavings on top of my livery so will wait to see if I am handed a bill at the end of this month.

Any way my horse is now coming in overnight after I requested that with my YO and there did not seem to be any issues (I expect the mates horse is moving to a fellow liveries stable who is on holiday at the moment) I have no intent to cause any hassle or fall out with YO.

Thanks again.
 
I had this once at my old yard. My horse was on DIY and would be turned out during the day. I would go up to get my horse in and would find another horse in my stable (at the time I was DIY in a riding school, it was a school horse in my stable). YO was oblivious to how out of order this was. Stable full of other horses poo, ate my hay and generally dirtied my stable. Stable was never mucked out, or even offered to be mucked out. No permission was ever asked. Needless to say I didn’t stay there long... so In a word I’d be furious! Especially on full livery which is not cheap. If permission was sought I would expect some kind of discount as they are surely getting 2 lots of livery for 1 stable?!
 
The yard I keep one of my horses at has an isolation box which is where any visiting horses go if it is available. Any horse or pony new to the yard goes into isolation.

In the OP position I would be very very pissed off from a bio-security point of view to find out my stable had had a visiting horse in it particularly if it was out and about at competitions. On those grounds feel the yard owner has been very very unprofessional.
 
I have seen this happen on full and part livery yards where the cost of hay and bedding together with care of the horse is included in the livery cost. On a DIY yard where you are providing all the care and hay, bedding, etc then I think it is unacceptable.

I would be a bit miffed if it was me especially as OP has already said she didn't want this to happen and would expect to receive at least an extra bale of shavings at no cost. However most full livery contracts would not include exclusive use of a stable.
 
It is not something that would make me happy, neither is it something that did make me happy at my old yard. I love my old yard and YO but often found my stable trashed when I went up to muck out and bring in my boy in the afternoon. There was a time when I found a horse had been clipped in my stable and everything left on the floor to mix into my shavings, I found horses put in there 'just for 5 minutes' but when I tried to gently address this with the YO it was news to her and she swore blind she had not seen anything.

It became a convenience I think to use my stable since I would be mucking out later anyway, as a result I often chucked away twice the bedding and mucked out for two. I found it unfair, discourteous and rude especially since it was always my stable used. I would raise the issue, his stable would not be used for a while but then it would start all over again. I know one person who used my stable as she believed it was the done thing, when I arrived one morning to get ben in for a show, she seemed genuinely perplexed as to what to do with her boy whilst mucking out. I explained that I was unhappy about his stable being used by anyone else especially when we all had our own stables, she was respectful, apologetic and never used his stall again.

Last year the beast got a cold that was going around, nothing to write home about - a small cough and snotty nose that soon went. However he never left the yard, was not vaccinated at the time and horses that were out competing twice a week were being put in his stall. That along with the use of my bedding, and leaving the labour to me were the three things that bugged the hell out of me

The think is, no one ever did it to be monstrous towards me, but they did it to save their back pocket and labour which was cruel, It cost me a lot of money and a lot more work over the years and never once was I offered so much as a bale of shavings or a hand mucking out and aside from this one person who apologised and stopped using it and two others who witnessed my stable being used over and over again and confirmed this... everyone else behaved like it didn't happen. It grinds you down over time. It is the one thing I will not miss as much as I loved they yard and the people.

I would never have said no to someone who genuinely needed to share a stable, for example lets say there were more horses than stables and the other person was willing to contribute bedding and labour. But, when you pay for a stable and field you pay for that stable... certainly in my case - using my stable when the culprit had their own was out of order.

There is the one argument that its your YO's yard and therefore her rules. And yes, to help out short term I genuinely would not mind providing it did not cost me extra, that being said if a YO wanted to bring someone onto the yard and double up stabling, I would kind of expect them to be willing to make that sacrifice themselves before asking it of their liveries, but then that is because that is the stance I would take if I were a YO.
 
ycbm said:
What is the problem with biosecurity? Unless in quarantine, the horses on a yard will normally have some level of contact with each other. My nearest vet hospital doesn't change bed between patients. My horses all live together.
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Sometimes, but not in all cases, in my instance... the two horses in question that kept being put in my stable were not kept in a field next to or near my boy, they were also both out competing every week. Each horse had its own individual paddock and therefore worming regime.

I found worms in the poo in bens stable... I strongly suspect this was not from him but to be certain I wormed him the next day, and I was extremely uncomfortable with the fact that they were regularly out competing and using his stable. It is not that I haven't been out and about competing on the beast myself, but at that point I was not... he was not vaccinated at that point, exposing him to potential nasties was entirely unnecessary and not at all that person's call to make, especially when (in this case the other horses had their own stables). So I can fully see and appreciate this perspective.

However, having back-read a bit, I do agree that if the OP is very soon to leave, I would not make too much of a drama out of it. It could perhaps have been handled a bit better by the YO who could have been more open and upfront in explaining the change.
 
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