YO has closed the school - ideas pls

A livery has a contract, verbal or otherwise, with the yo/ym. Not with fellow liveries & therefore ops rights should not be effected by what the other liveries do. If a landlord had one problem tenant, I doubt anyone would agree it would be ok to stop all tenants using their gardens, or garages for two days as punishment. Imo its exactly the same for a livery. I'm sure its more than annoying for the yo, but frankly that's not ops problem.
 
I don't see it as dirty work being done by others.I think we all know how it can go...all the liveries know who did it,that person(s) denies it or won't own up. What is YO to do? Some people can't tell truth or admit something's their fault to save their life! We do not know (unless I've missed it in the thread) that YO hasn't spent months reminding people of the rule only for it to be constantly flouted. This is merely a short sharp shock and no big deal IMO-the only reason it's vaguely shocking is that the poor YO has found it a necessary step/last resort?
 
The point is the YO doesn't know who did it! The OP says it's not her..the YO doesn't know that/OP can't prove it. So you could say,as far as YO concerned,(all the) guilty party(ies) are being affected....
 
Venevidivici said:
I don't see it as dirty work being done by others.I think we all know how it can go...all the liveries know who did it,that person(s) denies it or won't own up. What is YO to do? Some people can't tell truth or admit something's their fault to save their life! We do not know (unless I've missed it in the thread) that YO hasn't spent months reminding people of the rule only for it to be constantly flouted. This is merely a short sharp shock and no big deal IMO-the only reason it's vaguely shocking is that the poor YO has found it a necessary step/last resort?
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You are making some assumptions here. I don't know who did it.
And as I've already said, I don't think it's the last resort, I think it's the first resort. I've been on the yard for 7 months and have not heard anything about poo being left in the school until this week.

I'm not denying that it must be very annoying as a YO. I'm rather obsessive about my horse and my equipment and I hate lending it out. I fully accept I would not be any good as a YO because I'd freak out!

But then I'm not a YO, I'm a livery, I try to be a considerate one and don't think I'm having a hissy fit for expecting to be treated as such ;)
 
littlelegs said:
A livery has a contract, verbal or otherwise, with the yo/ym. Not with fellow liveries & therefore ops rights should not be effected by what the other liveries do. If a landlord had one problem tenant, I doubt anyone would agree it would be ok to stop all tenants using their gardens, or garages for two days as punishment. Imo its exactly the same for a livery. I'm sure its more than annoying for the yo, but frankly that's not ops problem.
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I agree with this. I would be rather miffed if I was penalised for someone else's actions. If this is a one-off and the yard is otherwise pleasant and harmonious I would do nothing about it. If this is part of a series of problems than I would be spending the two nights researching alternative yards.
 
Venevidivici said:
Also,re:the suggestion the YO poopick school herself,there may be practical difficulties to that-what if liveries can use it 'after hours' as it were,when staff gone home,YO eating her dinner/putting kids to bed or whatever? Why should she need to rush out after and poopick for someone too lazy to do it them self? Plus,if shutting school as a 2day one-off is harshly & unfairly affecting the good,law abiding poopicking livery citizens,then what on earth is upping the price for everyone to cover the non-pickers?!? Sure that'd go down a bomb as a suggestion... ;)
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If i were a livery customer being denied access to an arena im paying for, an extra pound or so a week wouldnt bother me.
A yo taking it up their humph to deny someone access to a pre agreed contractural facility would bother me, the problem is actually the yo, and to treat all your customers in this way is wrong. Around here, the yard would empty very quickly if this was the attitude shown to paying clients
 
Can't quote-phone,soz but the bit about 'all the liveries know who did it' that was a general illustration of how things often are on a yard,not supposed to be specific to your situation.:) Re:YO did this as a first resort,no mention in 7mths etc,I apologise and am stunned-YO is either incredibly intolerant (most reasonable people will tolerate a few indiscretions before blowing a gasket..;)) or she's had words with others about it,or in the past maybe? Re:someone saying if one person in a block of flats does something wrong,landlord cant punish everyone,there is often a clause in the lease that allows the landlord to impose a new regulation in relation to,(for eg),how the common areas are used because an unidentified tenant has breached their contract in their use of the common areas. :)
 
Venevidivici said:
Can't quote-phone,soz but the bit about 'all the liveries know who did it' that was a general illustration of how things often are on a yard,not supposed to be specific to your situation.:) Re:YO did this as a first resort,no mention in 7mths etc,I apologise and am stunned-YO is either incredibly intolerant (most reasonable people will tolerate a few indiscretions before blowing a gasket..;)) or she's had words with others about it,or in the past maybe?
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Thanks, sorry, trying to not get the hump! :cool: Maybe. I only know what I've been told directly. I find yard communication in general is a bit sparse.
Eventually I will find somewhere closer to home and then it won't be an issue any more ;)
 
I do see both sides but a different example...everyone brings their dogs to our yard-I don't mind this,I love dogs. However,they are all cr*pping everywhere-on the grassed verges,car park area,in the openings of field gateways and sometimes ducking under fences into my garden (and my neighbour's) and cr*pping there too,as well as peeing up haylage.This has peed (!) me off incredibly. I have left notices (to 'All Liveries',as I obviously can't identify the producer of each poop!) to politely request the poop is scooped..sometimes it is,sometimes it isn't. (I have my own dogs - I refuse to scoop up after other people's!) It annoys me that they don't do it-what now? I can ban all dogs,permanently..but I don't want to do that,not fair on those that scoop and it's a radical,permanent decision but I am often tempted to, cos people just don't look after things like requested!! It is in their contracts that no dogs allowed on yard-I waive this as it's nice,the dogs all play etc. But if it continues to be abused,I could rescind my waiver.
 
Re clauses in leases- that only stands for non integral parts of the contract. So if one tenant used a communal hallway as a dumping ground, landlord can invoke the clause to say no personal belongings left in hallway. But, if the car park was used by one tenant as a dumping ground, & the other tenants live there on the basis they have a car park, the landlord can't invoke the clause & ban everyone from using it, because its an integral part of why the tenant signed the contract. And besides, a ll would have to state that clause prior to signing or verbally agreeing contract. Which I doubt ops yo did.
 
Stencilface said:
2 days?! I'm sure everyone on here who doesn't have the pure luxury of a school on site is quite amazed! :D
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^ This too :D

Have to say I am quite amazed by some of the responses from people on this issue. I would love to have the luxury of any type of school other than my dark and water logged field. My poor ponies don't get any exercise during the week as I work 10 hour shifts, leaving for work in the dark and getting back in the dark.

Docking livery for loss of the school for 2 days? Really? How much extra do people pay per week for the use of a school. Surely it can't be much and not worth the bother to dock livery?
 
Marydoll,it's admirable you'd pay for it to all be sorted but I only have 7 liveries-I'd want plenty more than a pound a week from each of them to be on daily&nightly school poopicking duty,whenever anyone had used the school..that equates to pay for staff for one hour a week ménage patrolling/poopicking-not worth the inconvenience to my own time and I know the staff would feel the same.:)What if a livery riding 8-9pm at night? If I wasn't in/busy, I'd need to pay staff to stay 2 or 3hours late to hang around to poopick for 5mins:-/ Unless liveried only ride within staff working hours,it's not practical.
 
Venevidivici said:
I do see both sides but a different example...everyone brings their dogs to our yard-.....
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LOL, funny you should mention that, it's the YOs dogs that poo all over my yard! In the car park, round the hay... Bleugh! Have to dodge it when you get back in the car to make sure you don't take it home with you.

Ah well, at least you've got me laughing now, even if it is in despair. :eek:
 
OFG said:
^ This too :D

Have to say I am quite amazed by some of the responses from people on this issue. I would love to have the luxury of any type of school other than my dark and water logged field. My poor ponies don't get any exercise during the week as I work 10 hour shifts, leaving for work in the dark and getting back in the dark.

Docking livery for loss of the school for 2 days? Really? How much extra do people pay per week for the use of a school. Surely it can't be much and not worth the bother to dock livery?
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OFG, I'm a bit confused by your post. I do pay extra for to have access to a school, not just in terms of livery but in fuel to travel extra miles to a yard which has one. It's a choice I've made so that I can ride when it is dark.
When I was looking at yards before, the average cost for school in this area (compared to yards without one) seemed to be about an extra £10 to 15/week - I don't think that is insignificant. Some charged extra for lights.
Not really relevant, as I have already stated I'll cough up in full anyway ;)
 
Well,YO's dog cr*p everywhere would make me consider leaving anyway! ;) (It's a family joke about me and poo..whenever non-horsey family (that's most of them!) ring,they ask 'Can you talk,or are you picking cr*p up?!?' ;D
 
Venevidivici said:
Marydoll,it's admirable you'd pay for it to all be sorted but I only have 7 liveries-I'd want plenty more than a pound a week from each of them to be on daily&nightly school poopicking duty,whenever anyone had used the school..that equates to pay for staff for one hour a week ménage patrolling/poopicking-not worth the inconvenience to my own time and I know the staff would feel the same.:)What if a livery riding 8-9pm at night? If I wasn't in/busy, I'd need to pay staff to stay 2 or 3hours late to hang around to poopick for 5mins:-/ Unless liveried only ride within staff working hours,it's not practical.
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Seriously ! What are you feeding 7 horses that youre going to be lifting dung 24/7 :D the issue is still the yo, not the liveries who pay for the facility as part of their livery, while i agree liveries should lift dung after themselves i dont agree all should be penalised if 1-2 dont
 
milliepops said:
OFG, I'm a bit confused by your post. I do pay extra for to have access to a school, not just in terms of livery but in fuel to travel extra miles to a yard which has one. It's a choice I've made so that I can ride when it is dark.
When I was looking at yards before, the average cost for school in this area (compared to yards without one) seemed to be about an extra £10 to 15/week - I don't think that is insignificant. Some charged extra for lights.
Not really relevant, as I have already stated I'll cough up in full anyway ;)
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Wasn't saying you would dock the YO some of your livery bill due to loss of school use but was picking up on what some others have posted.

I was just curious as to how much extra per week people pay for a yard with a school facility and would it really be worth deducting 2 days worth from the bill to the yo.

Appreciate you travel extra distance to be at a yard with a school but for just 2 days is it the end of the world that you can't ride?

You could do some extra grooming / massage with your horse instead :)
 
I think there should have been some warning such as if people continue to leave poo in the school then they will banned if we don't know who is the culprit then everyone will be banned for two days. Perhaps there had been a problem before you arrived and that it was just you that was unaware of the situation and others had been warned, YO may not have told you if she felt you were not the person leaving the poo.

I do understand it is frustrating if you have booked a lesson and you have to cancel it and that is bad luck regarding the timing especially if you can only ride on certain days.

People need to behave like adults if they want to be treated like them, if YO has asked people to remove poo and people ignore her but she does not know who is doing it she does not have many options except group punishment. What would you have done in her place? CCTV is all good and well but there are costs involved which would have to be passed on to the liveries and she may have to watch hours of footage to find the culprit.

Hopefully whoever it was will have learnt their lesson and you will not be inconvienienced again. Perhap you need to put it into perspective after all it is only two days in 7 months that you have been unable to use the school.

I would not be docking any money from the livery bill as the YO is closing the school for the general good of the yard in that she is trying to stop people from exhibiting behaviour that will cause either damage to the school long term resulting in it possibly being out of action for longer due to having to be resurfaced or people having to put up with a poor surface or having to put up the costs so she can clean up after everyone or cover the costs of more frequent resurfacing.

milliepops said:
You are making some assumptions here. I don't know who did it.
And as I've already said, I don't think it's the last resort, I think it's the first resort. I've been on the yard for 7 months and have not heard anything about poo being left in the school until this week.

I'm not denying that it must be very annoying as a YO. I'm rather obsessive about my horse and my equipment and I hate lending it out. I fully accept I would not be any good as a YO because I'd freak out!

But then I'm not a YO, I'm a livery, I try to be a considerate one and don't think I'm having a hissy fit for expecting to be treated as such ;)
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Littlelegs,that is essentially right but livery contracts are not usually as specific or *full* as leases,so it's not easy to directly compare. Tho leases contain covenants and obligations which would be the 'integral parts',if the lease contains a clause to allow creation of regulations,they can readily be applied to most areas,especially peripheral issues to enable better operation of the property&lease BUT must be reasonable and within the law. People often speak on here of livery contracts as if they are like contracts drawn up by lawyers in offices...unfortunately (or fortunately,depends which side of the fence you are on:abiding poopicker or skulking guilty non-picker!) I imagine they rarely are. But I do see your point-there is an undeniable inherent unfairness to the poopicking parties in the YO's decision. OP,good luck in search for your new yard...may the school always be free and the poo(canine&equine!) always picked.:) Am off now,as OH has left the room&the remote unguarded and I've got Masterchef the Professionals on
Sky plus and a need to be made slaveringly hungry whilst watching it... ;)
 
SO1 said:
What would you have done in her place?
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:D This thread is like an itch that needs to be scratched now :p

What would I have done? I'd have spoken to people face to face, rather than send a group text about a ban as my (apparent, granted ;)) first step.
I might have asked everyone to be there in the evening to discuss the problem, or popped out a couple of times in the day to make sure I'd spoken to everyone.

rockysmum said:
I think it would depend how full it is. Perhaps a trial is in order :D

Pics a must, especially of the rodeo
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I wonder if the use of non-standard riding equipment is covered on the yard insurance policy though? ;):eek: This could be opening a whole new can of worms :D:D:p
 
Ps OP,huge apologies - I never actually offered any non-riding alternative activities,just got on my soapbox:D I suggest...Masterchef and popcorn with a 4mth old warm snuggly puppy on your lap:) (Hmmph...tack cleaning it is then;))
 
Venevidivici said:
Ps OP,huge apologies - I never actually offered any non-riding alternative activities,just got on my soapbox:D I suggest...Masterchef and popcorn with a 4mth old warm snuggly puppy on your lap:) (Hmmph...tack cleaning it is then;))
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:D apology accepted, but as it is I'll just have to go back to digging clipped off hairy mammoth horse hair out of my eyes :eek::mad:
 
Whilst I understand the YO's frustration, she is not behaving in a professional manner.

You should not,in a business, penalise a group of independent people, for the activity of one.

I suppose though, that if she is not challenged about this, she will behave in the same way again.
 
I agree with the YO and in fact, my yard has had this problem frequently over the past 6 months with the yard being filled up. With it being a small yard, I think everyone knows who the culprits are, but without actual evidence, the YO can only say that the school will be out of bounds to everyone.. in a way to make it fair? Perhaps that is what your YO is doing?

I would also go and speak to her and explain that you have a lesson and need to use the facilities and would there be any chance of you being able to use them?

I would also maybe give your YO some ideas of how to encourage people to clean up after themselves? Maybe you'll find that these 2 days will make people think twice about leaving mess in the school?
 
I have seen this happen on big yards alot and it does annoy me. Yard managers are very quick to just lock the school rather than confront the individuals involved. It's not fair on everyone else and if they really cared about the yard they would speak to the people involved and sort the root cause.

And sorry to anyone younger but the last 3 yards I have been on it has been the kids who don't bother and if the school gets locked they shrug their shoulders and go and gallop round the fields instead. Meanwhile the adults come after work when it's dark and find they have nowhere to ride.

And what if it happens regularly over a period of time and the culprits never come forward and no one knows who they are. Can easily happen on a big yard if the school is a little distance away. Even on one small yard I was at, kids were riding up from yard down the road which belonged to the same people so technically we were allowed to use each others' school. They were coming up earlier so no one was around and no one saw them. Meanwhile after many threats the school was locked but they didn't care as the other one wasn't.
 
amymay said:
My old YO did this once, as liveries were not picking up after their horses. Frustrating for those that did, but message received loud and clear.
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I agree here - unfortunately it's the same old, same old the few causing chaoe for the many

Recently at Pony Club a parent had a big grizzle because the kids were all told off by club president - let the head instructor know if you are attending the rally. She went on to tell them that if they turn up without confirming their attendance they will be sent home again. She thought it was too extreme - I told her to get over it, that if she wanted her child to have a good instructor then the Head Instructor needed to know who is coming. (She was one of the guilty ones! - Her excuse for not emailing - "we only go on line once a week" told her that was not an excuse she knew a rally was coming up and should have confirmed her daughters attendance - it's just good manners.

Hopefully any rider sent home will always remember to confirm their attendance
 
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