Your thoughts on the HOYS hunter class dispute?

undergroundoli said:
You support people being made to wear hats at shows.

As someone who volunteers with homeless people I'm pretty up on London synonyms for heroin.
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Oh, and 'You support people being made to wear hats at shows', does not translate to 'you HAVE made people wear hats at shows'. ;-)
 
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Moomin1 said:
Not sure why the hostility. I am merely putting my views and opinions across.

Anyway, I have no problem with Cortez doing what she wants, or anyone.

Just wondering, would you be happy for heroin addicts to inject infront of kids and at major events which are publicly advertised?
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To be honest that just silly injecting heroin is illegal not wearing a hat is not illegal .
But I dont think seeing people injecting heroin would make the kids rush off and turn into addicts might well put them off .
Might upset them which might be a shame but no one ever died of getting upset .
I am not particularily interested in other peoples kids they chose to have them they can get on with raising them .
If a parent can't have good and constructive communication with their children it's hardly the fault of the rest of us.
 
Keyboard warriors and/or trolls, I am going to avoid this thread now, getting a bit bitchy :( Think all competitors of any discipline should have to wear a decent hat, that is all!
 
Wear a safety helmet, don't wear a safety helmet, doesn't bother me in the slightest unless you're under 18 years old and riding on my premises and then you will be required to as this is what my insurance company insists upon.

I think most of you on here would have a coronary if you lived where I live and saw all the tons of little kids on giant horses riding in cowboy hats!
 
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Personally I always wear a helmet and I don't really understand why others don't.

But whatever, that's not the point I want to make now. I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before, I know the argument of children seeing and copying is a major point here for some - but would a child actually know that a Patey type hat is more decorative than functional? I know this is probably a moot point when it comes to bowlers or top hat style ones - but when I was young, I never questioned whether something was truly a helmet, if it looked like one!
 
Moomin1 said:
And that is fine. I don't care whether you fall off and injure your head. That's your problem. But you should, if you enter major competitions (or any IMO) be a responsible example and wear a hat, so that kids and teenagers do not think it's ok not to.

Many people feel it inappropriate to get slaughtered on drink and drugs infront of kids, or not wear a seatbelt infront of kids, or swear even infront of kids - so how is it ok for competitors at a major competition, watched by thousands of kids, to not wear a hat?
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Actually it is your problem if Cortez falls onto her head as you are the tax payer who will foot the bill for her expensive treatment in an intensive care unit, the expensive CT scans, the skilled doctors and nurses and if she survives the prolonged rehabilitationwhich after a head injury can take at least 12 months. There is no argument against wearing hats apart from the tedious freedom of choice one. BTW I am one of the very expensive skilled ICU nurses so do know what I am talking about
 
Spider65 said:
Actually it is your problem if Cortez falls onto her head as you are the tax payer who will foot the bill for her expensive treatment in an intensive care unit, the expensive CT scans, the skilled doctors and nurses and if she survives the prolonged rehabilitationwhich after a head injury can take at least 12 months. There is no argument against wearing hats apart from the tedious freedom of choice one. BTW I am one of the very expensive skilled ICU nurses so do know what I am talking about
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Actually no, it's not going to be your problem, because I don't live in your country so your tax dollars are completely safe from me :-) And freedom of choice is "tedious" is it? Interesting.......

Just off for my morning heroin now, play nice.
 
Spider65 said:
Actually it is your problem if Cortez falls onto her head as you are the tax payer who will foot the bill for her expensive treatment in an intensive care unit, the expensive CT scans, the skilled doctors and nurses and if she survives the prolonged rehabilitationwhich after a head injury can take at least 12 months. There is no argument against wearing hats apart from the tedious freedom of choice one. BTW I am one of the very expensive skilled ICU nurses so do know what I am talking about
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Freedom of choice of one person affects many different people and if you are going to play that card you shouldn't be riding at all, horses are a risk sport, whether you have a hat on your head or not - you only have to take Schumacher as an example.

I spent years hunting and showing when I was a child and never made the connection between my own safety helmet and other people's Pateys, so I'm not convinced about the influence it has on younger riders' decisions.
 
Moomin1 said:
I think all of them are as potentially dangerous as the other.

I don't have children.

However, if anyone tried to tell my OH's kids that it is ok to get on a horse without a hat, I would be furious to say the least.

Children ARE NOT anymore important at all - I am merely pointing out that for people like Cortez, who say 'adults' can make their mind up what they do in competitions, it does NOT portray a good image to children. Children, and teenagers make stupid judgements, often based on what they see. .
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Maybe children shouldn't be quite so stupid then (or more parented) - fwiw I don't actually think children are actually influenced by what adults do as much as people seem to think, their peers maybe but I think they might be more clever than we give them credit for :p. They certainly aren't really Cortez's responsibility anyway.

eta yup same sheep!
 
Spider65 said:
Actually it is your problem if Cortez falls onto her head as you are the tax payer who will foot the bill for her expensive treatment in an intensive care unit, the expensive CT scans, the skilled doctors and nurses and if she survives the prolonged rehabilitationwhich after a head injury can take at least 12 months. There is no argument against wearing hats apart from the tedious freedom of choice one. BTW I am one of the very expensive skilled ICU nurses so do know what I am talking about
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This argument always makes me laugh .
That's what the NHS does to a large extent ,look after people who have made bad choices from diabetes to gastric bands to smokers with cancer to drunk drivers to people who bang their heads .
I will say again I am a hat wearer but have no desire to inflict it on others who have made a choice not to.
 
I access the situation when riding a young, new or temperamental horse I always put a hat on. As I do when hacking but when riding a known quantity I take the risk of not wearing a hat.

It is my choice and I take full responsibility. I don't like being told I must wear a hat. I was forced to wear a body protector as a child and still fractured three vertebrae. Horses are dangerous who brings in their horse wearing hats and gloves? Who lunges in a hat?

I see more horse misbehaving on the lunge than under saddle more chance of a hoof clobbering you on the head?
 
lawa said:
Who lunges in a hat?

I see more horses misbehaving on the lunge than under saddle more chance of a hoof clobbering you on the head?
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I lunge wearing a hat (and gloves) :). I also wore a hat when I had to hold the Queen's fell pony for covering by a neighbour's stallion, although I was ridiculed for doing so (not by HM, she wasn't there!).

Hats will never be able to prevent all head injuries, and in a small number of cases may actually create an injury due to their bulk. On balance, though, you will be better protected if you wear one than if you do not.

It was a long battle to enforce the compulsory wearing of seat belts. Many people were convinced that you were safer without one, as they thought that you would be thrown clear in the event of an accident, rather than being trapped in the car.

My Dad was one of those who campaigned for them to be made compulsory, as he had to deal regularly with casualties who had been thrown through the windscreen. He tried to enlist the support of the former England goalkeeper Gordon Banks, who lost an eye when he went through a windscreen, but Gordon declined, saying he supported 'freedom of choice'.
 
Although I sometimes used to ride without a hat as a child ('twas in the 70's and not such an issue), I've never done so as an adult, and have had at least two occasions when my hat has saved my head - one where I suffered severe concussion after catching a glancing blow from my horse as she ran past me (after chucking me off in front of her).

I wear a beagler for in hand showing, won't get on a horse without a hat and won't ride out with anyone who isn't wearing one either - just as I won't hack out with anyone not wearing hi viz. Their choice if they want to come with me.

I love to see traditional dress in the show ring - particularly the sidesaddle classes, and I do agree with the comments that wearing a hat won't miraculously make anyone a better rider, but accidents happen, however good you are.

Just like I can't understand that we still have to tell people to wear seatbelts, I really can't understand why we need to tell people to wear proper safety hats. Same goes for the smoke detector/co detector argument - they might not save your life, but if you're ever in that situation, the chances are that they will, and it REALLY won't hurt you to wear one.
 
RunToEarth said:
Interesting take the media have anyway - this is an interesting article that flashed up on my home page earlier. I'm not sure who everyone will blame when everyone wears a helmet for everything and people still die...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25926572
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Very interesting, thanks for posting that. In terms of blame though, is that really how it works? Surely it's easier to accept the death of somebody who was wearing a helmet rather than being left to agonise over whether they would still be alive if they had been?

I'm not sure that car seatbelts are necessarily the best comparison, in that being thrown out of a car in a crash is almost always going to end badly whereas most falls off horses do little or no damage. To me car seatbelts are a bit further along the spectrum in terms of guaranteed better outcome.
 
armchair_rider said:
Very interesting, thanks for posting that. In terms of blame though, is that really how it works? Surely it's easier to accept the death of somebody who was wearing a helmet rather than being left to agonise over whether they would still be alive if they had been?

I'm not sure that car seatbelts are necessarily the best comparison, in that being thrown out of a car in a crash is almost always going to end badly whereas most falls off horses do little or no damage. To me car seatbelts are a bit further along the spectrum in terms of guaranteed better outcome.
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Just to post with regards to the seatbelt thing, I think it was with regards to much older (less safety designed) cars, where you would want to be throw clear rather than crushed in the vehicle (as the way they were built back then). It was what I was told for the reasons for not wanting a seatbelt back then, but with the way cars are built now, it does seem ridiculous.

I do actually support freedom of choice where hats are concerned for the 18+.

x x
 
The car seat belt thing is probably a bit off track, but I mentioned it as it was part of my childhood (no hat, no horse, and no seat belt, no car). The widespread indignation about seat belts becoming compulsory was the common theme.

I am old enough to remember belting up in friend's cars only to be asked 'Don't you trust my driving, then?'
 
I lunge with out a hat if I know the horse and feel ok strange horses a I wear hat , gloves I always wear I would never lead a horse turn out a horse or ride a horse with out gloves .
Who clips wearing a hat .
I do for the nasty bits .
 
RunToEarth said:
Freedom of choice of one person affects many different people and if you are going to play that card you shouldn't be riding at all, horses are a risk sport, whether you have a hat on your head or not - you only have to take Schumacher as an example.
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Absolutely.

What do people think about kids on scooters having helmets on? I used to live somewhere it was unusual to see a kid scootering without one, now I live somewhere none of them do. Have to say despite area 2 being considerably more deprived the kids are healthier looking.

images
this kind of scooter, not motor ones, obviously.
 
AlexHyde said:
Just to post with regards to the seatbelt thing, I think it was with regards to much older (less safety designed) cars, where you would want to be throw clear rather than crushed in the vehicle (as the way they were built back then). It was what I was told for the reasons for not wanting a seatbelt back then, but with the way cars are built now, it does seem ridiculous.

I do actually support freedom of choice where hats are concerned for the 18+.

x x
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Ahh that's a good point. And it does actually tie in quite well with the way that riding hats are becoming more and more effective and therefore there is more and more reason to wear one.

Tiddlypom said:
The car seat belt thing is probably a bit off track, but I mentioned it as it was part of my childhood (no hat, no horse, and no seat belt, no car). The widespread indignation about seat belts becoming compulsory was the common theme.

I am old enough to remember belting up in friend's cars only to be asked 'Don't you trust my driving, then?'
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I don't think it's a bad thing to raise - there are certainly parallels in the two situations. I'm just wary of overdoing the comparison
 
RunToEarth said:
Interesting take the media have anyway - this is an interesting article that flashed up on my home page earlier. I'm not sure who everyone will blame when everyone wears a helmet for everything and people still die...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25926572
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Scotland is becoming like Stasiland. I actually think they will ban people from going outdoors soon. I've been shouted at in the street so many times recently for doing perfectly legal activities - e.g. running on the pavement in a quiet village without hi-viz gear on, riding my horse through a forest bridlepath, etc - I honestly wonder whether some people use the misnomer "health and safety" as an excuse to control and harass others. Its a worrying trend. How anyone could object to a woman riding a bike, I don't know. Only in this country.
 
Mithras said:
Scotland is becoming like Stasiland. I actually think they will ban people from going outdoors soon. I've been shouted at in the street so many times recently for doing perfectly legal activities - e.g. running on the pavement in a quiet village without hi-viz gear on, riding my horse through a forest bridlepath, etc - I honestly wonder whether some people use the misnomer "health and safety" as an excuse to control and harass others. Its a worrying trend. How anyone could object to a woman riding a bike, I don't know. Only in this country.
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You are spot on its a form of insidious creeping control leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth.
You see it on here too people seem to think its ok to take people to task for say not wearing hi viz I would never presume to stop a stranger and have a go at them .
In England the harassment law seems to be if around if someone feels harrassed , so my advice to any one who comes across one of these interfering busy bodies is to say your actions are making me feel harrassed you are interfering with my quiet enjoyment of ( insert whatever ) I don't want to talk to you if you contine I will call the police .
I did it once when a Pratt drove along side me in his car thus blocking the whole rode wound down the window and preceded to tell me horses should not be on the roads . It worked a treat ,particularily with a cheery shout to my groom to memorise the second half his reg number because I had memorised the first half .
 
I thinks its abit drastic of HOYS to do this which is all too suit a certain few who im sure already own a hat with a strap on to compete a certain shows so why the big hoo haa and the press release from SHBGB says "Horse of the Year Show’s own admission is likely to be enforced by legislation in the near future"

My patey doesnt move and feel far more comfortable wearing it than my saftey hat as I got told by a hat fitter a poorly fitting hat is as dangerous as no hat! when ever Imove my head to suddenly with my safety hat it slides around on my head quite often tipping forward and leaving the occipital part of my skull exposed

I pick Patey Courne up in Friday... a safety hat that will fit so worth the £695
 
bliss87 said:
I got told by a hat fitter a poorly fitting hat is as dangerous as no hat! when ever Imove my head to suddenly with my safety hat it slides around on my head quite often tipping forward and leaving the occipital part of my skull exposed
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Interesting, but it seems as though your safety hat doesn't fit you! No properly fitted hat should tip like that. You might need to try several different makes and styles before you find one that fits correctly. Every individual is different. I 'have' to have a Gatehouse hat due to the shape of my head, which is luckily not a trial for me as there is a stockist nearby, and I like Gatehouse hats.

ETA just realise that your new Patey is a safety hat, albeit the lowest of the current standards.
 
I really don't see the problem with a rule saying they must wearing safety hats at shows (what they do at home is their choice) as if the judge were to be marking the look of the hat then since they would all be wearing safety hats and look the same they would all be =1st :)
 
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