Eventing 3 horse deaths at Blenheim HT, have courses become too technical? Are horses not prepared enough?

[shortstuff99]

There has been very sad news I saw today that 3 horses have been euthanised after Blenheim horse trials. I don't think I have ever seen a year with so many horses killed eventing.

What could have lead to it? Course design? Unprepared horses due to COVID? Changes/ discussions will need to take place as this can't keep happening.

https://eventingnation.com/three-horses-euthanised-at-blenheim-international/

 

[Tiddlypom]

Three ?

Something went very, very wrong.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Personally, I say too technical! Such a shame

 

[ycbm]

1950/60/70/80

"An eventer is a jumper that does a bit of dressage. "


2000/10/20

"An eventer is a dressage horse which jumps".




Asking too much of the wrong horses.
.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

I’m interested to know the story with Georgie Spence’s horse, as he completed the XC clear, but seems to have been PTS overnight

 

[stangs]

A few thoughts:

• ‘Technical’ courses seem to be going the wrong way: it should mean that if the rider doesn’t set the horse up right, flags fall not horses.
• Is part of the issue that courses aren’t being designed with equine senses in mind? Just thinking of how they’ve changed the colour of NH fences: could something similar be done in XC?
• I’m sure being unprepared thanks to COVID has something to do with it, but that unpreparedness will only get worse as the cost of living goes up, meaning people are going to be limited in how many different events they attend, courses they ride on, etc.
• Is it time to think about reintroducing the steeplechase or will that lead to even more falls with horse and rider combinations who weren't fit enough?
• I’m another who’d be very interested to find out what happened to Fanta Boy. My guess would be either colic or an injury from cumulative strain/stress.

What the sport needs now imo is a bunch of researchers to conduct a review of the various falls in recent years that led to career-ending or fatal injuries, to identify trends in what caused them and then feed the findings back to course designers.

 

[sbloom]

Something has to change. It's a completely different sport to the old long format and much the poorer for it.

 

[Cortez]

Do I remember five horses dying at Badminton one year, a very long time ago? ANY horse dying in the name of sport is too many, IMO. And yes, this especially includes racing.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Do I remember five horses dying at Badminton one year, a very long time ago? ANY horse dying in the name of sport is too many, IMO. And yes, this especially includes racing.

It breaks my heart, so sad ?

 

[teapot]

Sam Lissington’s horse was fall related; Thomas Martin’s was a leg injury sustained in a fall, and not been said re Georgie Spence’s one, just it was overnight.

They removed the fence that Sam Lissington fell at, she was only second/third out in the 4* short.

Absolutely not re bringing back the steeplechase and roads and tracks, horses were written off a lot younger because of long format eventing. Short format has made a huge difference to longevity of a horse’s career.

 

[stangs]

Absolutely not re bringing back the steeplechase and roads and tracks, horses were written off a lot younger because of long format eventing. Short format has made a huge difference to longevity of a horse’s career.

Is short format eventing the cause of longer careers or the various veterinary advancements in treating problems?

 

[teapot]

Is short format eventing the cause of longer careers or the various veterinary advancements in treating problems?

A combination of things given any veterinary treatment will need to be FEI legal, and less wear and tear over a long period will definitely be helping.

Not sure why anyone would want to be adding additional wear and tear on horses by changing the sport back though. Upping medical treatment as a result isn’t exactly ethical either.

 

[spacefaer]

The horses have changed since the "good old days" of the long format 3DE. Big, bold, galloping tracks with rider frightener fences - like the Centaur's Leap at Burghley - wouldn't suit today's style of event horses.

Just a thought to throw out there .... With the emphasis on safety, and the improvements on the xc with frangible pins and MIM clips etc, do we think that riders are riding less cautiously over fences they know will knock down if they get them wrong? Which leads to horses not understanding the difference between xc knockdown fences and solid ones?

I would agree that fewer competitions, as evidenced by the last two years, has been detrimental to the experience levels of both horses and riders coming up through the system. The whole adage of just because you're qualified, doesn't mean you're ready definitely applies here.

Maybe less experienced horse/rider combinations should have to take a season to consolidate at a level before they can upgrade?
Maybe tighten the degree of difficulty for gaining qualifications?

 

[Cortez]

The horses have changed since the "good old days" of the long format 3DE. Big, bold, galloping tracks with rider frightener fences - like the Centaur's Leap at Burghley - wouldn't suit today's style of event horses.

Just a thought to throw out there .... With the emphasis on safety, and the improvements on the xc with frangible pins and MIM clips etc, do we think that riders are riding less cautiously over fences they know will knock down if they get them wrong? Which leads to horses not understanding the difference between xc knockdown fences and solid ones?

I would agree that fewer competitions, as evidenced by the last two years, has been detrimental to the experience levels of both horses and riders coming up through the system. The whole adage of just because you're qualified, doesn't mean you're ready definitely applies here.

Maybe less experienced horse/rider combinations should have to take a season to consolidate at a level before they can upgrade?
Maybe tighten the degree of difficulty for gaining qualifications?

"With the emphasis on safety" seems to be a bit of a misnomer with three dead horses, doesn't it?

 

[SantaVera]

Appalling.Poor poor horses.

 

[Red-1]

I think the sport has indeed changed. I did my biggest challenges on a big and bold mare, she ate rider frighteners for breakfast.

I was somewhat irritated when the courses became more technical. The dressage part tests schooling and accuracy. The SJ tests accuracy too. I believe that eventing should be an all round test, so the XC should test power and boldness.

I hate the modern courses with a gallop to a cluster of jumps that are more like show jumps. They feel trappy and encourage backwards riding.

I read an interesting article that blames the increase of the technical clusters. It means the riders are making the horses more 'on the bit' and 'obedient' as opposed to free forward movement with the horse looking at the fence and making some of the decisions as to where their feet go!

 

[DabDab]

I was at Blenheim on the Friday and Saturday and when I was walking around the xc I was quite surprised at just how technical the short format course was. To my eye it looked more technical than the long format course, which considering the 4*short was only 8 or 9yo horses seemed like a big ask.

Plus when you think that a horse only properly finishes maturing physically at around 8...

We are also in an age of having numerous competitors with multiple mounts in every competition, which must make keeping enough focus for these big technical courses difficult, even for the best.

The problem with elite eventing is that it has changed so much in a relatively short space of time (the industry, horses and riders as much as the the competition's themselves) that there is a massive pool of potential contributing factors to the death and injury rate. For thorough research to sort through it all would take a hell of a time.

 

[ycbm]

I think the sport has indeed changed. I did my biggest challenges on a big and bold mare, she ate rider frighteners for breakfast.

I was somewhat irritated when the courses became more technical. The dressage part tests schooling and accuracy. The SJ tests accuracy too. I believe that eventing should be an all round test, so the XC should test power and boldness.

I hate the modern courses with a gallop to a cluster of jumps that are more like show jumps. They feel trappy and encourage backwards riding.

I read an interesting article that blames the increase of the technical clusters. It means the riders are making the horses more 'on the bit' and 'obedient' as opposed to free forward movement with the horse looking at the fence and making some of the decisions as to where their feet go!

This this this. Could have written every word.
.

 

[honetpot]

• Technical’ courses seem to be going the wrong way: it should mean that if the rider doesn’t set the horse up right, flags fall not horses.
• Is part of the issue that courses aren’t being designed with equine senses in mind? Just thinking of how they’ve changed the colour of NH fences: could something similar be done in XC?

I worry about this, we want our horses to trust us, and listen to what ask, then put them in a situation where the rider misjudges something, and it gets an injury. Perhaps I am naive but surely the fences should be understandable to the horse, and that the rider only has the opportunity to improve the situation, or not, but not to the point where its effectively totally dependant on the rider's to prevent injury and death.

We have changed how horses are bred and produced, they spend lots of time in 'safe' flat paddocks, and ridden on nice even surfaces, when really they need the mind and the fifth leg,and something that knows how to work out a problem, because when they go out on that course they haven't done the course walk.

 

[NR88]

https://www.facebook.com/1091617159...5s7W7GKU96EuvEszEVq3o3nwQcaXpdu85fPYHnUGdWSl/

No solutions but it is an issue that there is a world wide awareness of.

 

[spacefaer]

"With the emphasis on safety" seems to be a bit of a misnomer with three dead horses, doesn't it?

It was said a tad ironically, but the current course designers and builders are obviously trying to build "safer" courses than were prevalent in the past (which started after the horrendous period with all the rider deaths)
Whether they are getting it right, is a topic open for much discussion.

I have watched the big tracks on TV over the last couple of years and for the first time, I don't miss it. I evented in the previous century, and I certainly don't feel tempted to come out of retirement - nothing about the current style of xc course building attracts me. The style of xc riding required is not mine.

 

[ycbm]

I have watched the big tracks on TV over the last couple of years and for the first time, I don't miss it. I evented in the previous century, and I certainly don't feel tempted to come out of retirement - nothing about the current style of xc course building attracts me. The style of xc riding required is not mine.

Ditto again!
.

 

[ycbm]

Do I remember five horses dying at Badminton one year, a very long time ago? ANY horse dying in the name of sport is too many, IMO. And yes, this especially includes racing.

I don't think so but I found this article while looking to find out. Take a look at the first photo, especially this week!

https://www.countrylife.co.uk/out-a...miracle-champion-took-four-decades-win-195581

 

[LEC]

Yuk I loathe Denny Emerson and his harking back to the good old days where horses broke down more, competed at world champs age 8 and then burnt out by 11. Ask Mary king, Pippa funnell and William fox Pitt and all will tell you they don’t miss long format. All have considerable wins under long format as well so a fair voice.
The big issue is that a lot of deaths were swept under the carpet as no statistics kept. It only really got noticed with riders due to quantity.

Allstar B was a torsion injury just as Mary Poppins was at Bramham. With a catastrophic breakdown unless you are x raying everyday you can never predict when it was going to go, whether one thing caused it or it was the accumulation. Just like Achilles in humans.

Georgies horse died from a heart attack. Not the same thing IMO. Not attrition from the course especially as done several years at that end of the sport.

Just looked at RF and fence 9 had most which was a brush corner in water. Fence 12 was two simple house fences on 3/4 stride curving line had a HF which is a question you see everyday from 80cm up. Not sure which fence Sam fell at but one was a table at 3 and the other pinned open oxer at 4. These are simple fences so we are now looking at rider error? Badminton was rider errors all over.

Lucinda green described her first badminton experience as you kick. This is not the case now as the horse needs to have significant gear changes. The very nature of chasing the clock means the range of speed is greater, up and down gears. It’s tiring for horses and riders mentally. The profiles of fences have been softened.

Rocker Ridge Ricochet is dr bred with Jazz lines and 26% TB.

Finally Michael Jung has admitted he now changes his approach at certain fences to get a better jump - slows down slightly more etc as been caught out by having pins. Sam Watson says they are rider error if having pins but getting away with a poorer jump/speed due to now being pinned.

 

[View]

Some of you have managed to explain why eventing no longer attracts me as a rider, and I hadn’t been able to articulate why. And it’s not even as though I ever made it past Novice!

For me the fun was in the partnership, trusting my horse, and knowing that he was enjoying it too (trust me, he wouldn’t do something he wasn’t happy about). He seemed to size up the rider frighteners and take charge for them. He was sure footed and had that fifth leg, and the only time he saw a school or arena was in competition.

I miss those fun days.

A long hard look is needed - we can’t go on killing horses in the name of sport.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

Also I agree it needs to be looked into, as a general thing, as it seems to be happening more (but how much of that is just increased reporting/stats?) but also just because dressage/SJ horses aren’t dying at events, doesn’t mean there aren’t health issues arising from those sports that end in PTS…

Plus it doesn’t just happen at high levels. The horse I lost to a rotational fall was only competing at BE90, fence was a very straightforward hayrack (on a slight downward slope but not extreme). So not technically difficult or there to catch horse/rider out.

Said horse had been competing successfully at 90 for several years, had done a few 1m classes the previous season, never had an XC jumping fault, was training at novice level and was one of the best and most careful hunters I have ever ridden. Sometimes it just happens.

 

[teapot]

It was the second part of fence 12 @LEC where Sam L had her fall

It was on the live stream coverage, not sure whether they’ve since edited it out.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Jeez 3? These are similar rates to racing, about which there is massive outcry...

It needs investigating, racing while not ideal has at least researched rather and tried to bring in safety measures, eventing brought in frangible pins after that spate of rider fatalities in the late 90s didn't it? It won't look good if they don't do anything now it's horses? Look at the changes F1 made after drivers were being killed and the changes have been shown to change lives

Wonder what happened to GS horse for it to be fine then die overnight? Some sort of haemorrhage?

 

[LEC]

It was the second part of fence 12 @LEC where Sam L had her fall

It was on the live stream coverage, not sure whether they’ve since edited it out.

Interesting as really straightforward profile. Must have shoved head in the air and left a leg. Not sure how you can prevent that…. Unless you remove the element of solid fences and just have sjing.

Obviously I do have a dog in this fight as love the sport and still actively compete when not trying to die of health issues. I have done 30 years in this sport but I don’t feel any different about it. I still love the training and now my training is just more detailed and better. I used to be able to get away with winging it round novice but not anymore. I got away with a whole season at novice never jumping a corner as black flags. Now there are rarely black flags.

 

[tristar]

i always got the impression that eventers are slightly ,in the way they ride, sorry eventers

in the old days most event horses seemed to be well TB or close, quite a lot by H I S stallions, who were of course judged by the old school horsemen, well versed in the type of conformation and general style of horse that could keep upright in the hunting field, and with a different mind to many modern horses