rema
Well-Known Member
Ah i see your point.But like you say that is a too much of an easy and fair option!.We will probably get stung with a 'mileage' tax aswell then!!.
4x4 road tax may go up to £400 a year!!.
- Thread starter rema
- Start date
airedale
Well-Known Member
It was in the papers about 3 weeks ago. Not an opinion - the classification is being changed by the insurance industry to reflect the claims history they are seeing. As usual the insurance industry is out to make money - but I do feel that as has been said - some of the larger cars can be better than some of the smaller cars - but overall a more granular system might make some more efficient cars more affodable to insure.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Nobody in the country needs one, unless they live up an unmade road like Freshman, or they are a farmer. If you choose to keep horses as a hobby that gives you no more right than anyone else - you are creating a need. I imagine that most of the government ministers drive cars that return far fewer miles to the gallon than our diesel Disco, but that is lost in the smoke. I am sick of the media shorthand of using 4x4 to describe an uneconomical vehicle. As for conservation issues, it uses more energy to build and ultimately dispose of a Toyota Prius than to build, run and dispose of a 4x4. It's all in the batteries...
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
Fortunately we have never needed police for anything other than the twits that decide to come for a walk, (but park there car on the hairpin bend ) blocking access to anyone else that drives something larger than a bubble car. Then they dont arrive for 4hrs.
I wasnt having a go at other 4x4 owners, but feel that some consideration should be given if it is proved that the vehicle is necessary to go about your daily business. We have even had to buy our own gritter as the slightest frost makes the lane a deathtrap.
I wasnt having a go at other 4x4 owners, but feel that some consideration should be given if it is proved that the vehicle is necessary to go about your daily business. We have even had to buy our own gritter as the slightest frost makes the lane a deathtrap.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
We have even had to buy our own gritter as the slightest frost makes the lane a deathtrap.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nods furiously whilst going green at the thought of Freshman's lane being even slightly icy
We have even had to buy our own gritter as the slightest frost makes the lane a deathtrap.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nods furiously whilst going green at the thought of Freshman's lane being even slightly icy
SecretSquirrell379
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
This makes my blood boil, there are so many people with chelsea tractors now, u know the type there's no mud on them and no tow bar on the back.
Ive got a small box which goes out once or twice a week but costs twice as much as the car to tax
I firmly believe that road tax should just go directly on the price of fuel so that you just pay for the miles you do, end of story.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the tax on fuel, we do not live in a communist country, we should not be dictated to what we can drive. If people want to drive 4x4's why shouldn't they? Fuel tax, as Weezy said, is much fairer, then people who use their 4x4's at weekend for towing etc will not be penalised throughout the whole year
This makes my blood boil, there are so many people with chelsea tractors now, u know the type there's no mud on them and no tow bar on the back.
Ive got a small box which goes out once or twice a week but costs twice as much as the car to tax
I firmly believe that road tax should just go directly on the price of fuel so that you just pay for the miles you do, end of story.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the tax on fuel, we do not live in a communist country, we should not be dictated to what we can drive. If people want to drive 4x4's why shouldn't they? Fuel tax, as Weezy said, is much fairer, then people who use their 4x4's at weekend for towing etc will not be penalised throughout the whole year
rema
Well-Known Member
To be honest it is the farmers i feel most sorry for.They are struggling to make ends meet as it is with the low milk prices,low meat prices and now they will get stung driving there old landie around aswell.It's a no win situation.
spaniel
Well-Known Member
Ive been trying to draft an eloquent comment for this thread but each time I write anything it ends up peppered in vile expletives.....
so excuse me whilst I just sit here and seethe!!
so excuse me whilst I just sit here and seethe!!
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
LOL And I can only tow it with a 4x4 otherwise the weight of the gritter when full would push me off the edge. I just can not win on this one.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Oh you are going to miss that when you move!
SecretSquirrell379
Well-Known Member
Can farmers use red diesel?? not sure what the rules on that are?
airedale
Well-Known Member
if you take into account the ecological cost of building a lot of things then you would never build them - similar statistics can be shown for wind turbine farms - but does that mean we shouldn't use renewable energy ? Of course not
I still think that putting 'road tax' onto fuel is more sensible - then the inefficient cars pay more than the efficient ones - and no-one can drive without fuel anyway.
However why should motorists pay fuel duty at all when Kerosene for aircraft is zero rated for fuel duty - artificially lowering the cost of flying - which DOES cause a lot of damage.
The UK coffers couldn't survive without the££££s the motorist pours into them from one tax or another, little of which actually goes onto transport (public or roads) but is spent elsewhere in the gov. 'system'.
I tax two vehicles - a small lorry and a mid-sized car sufficient to do the cash and carry horse feed every week. The lorry probably does less than 500 miles a year and goes out about once a month or so. If I used a trailer I'd have to drive the towing vehicle 365 days a year.
By having the lorry this goes out maybe 15 days a year or so - and the car is used the rest of the time.
Years ago farmers would stuff a sheep in the back of a van to move it - but rules now mean that a trailer has to be used with x sides and this and that and be able to be disinfected within x hrs of being used, etc etc. so farmers have been given NO choice by gov. but to have to have a 4x4 as they have to move animals using a trailer and not a van.
I still think that putting 'road tax' onto fuel is more sensible - then the inefficient cars pay more than the efficient ones - and no-one can drive without fuel anyway.
However why should motorists pay fuel duty at all when Kerosene for aircraft is zero rated for fuel duty - artificially lowering the cost of flying - which DOES cause a lot of damage.
The UK coffers couldn't survive without the££££s the motorist pours into them from one tax or another, little of which actually goes onto transport (public or roads) but is spent elsewhere in the gov. 'system'.
I tax two vehicles - a small lorry and a mid-sized car sufficient to do the cash and carry horse feed every week. The lorry probably does less than 500 miles a year and goes out about once a month or so. If I used a trailer I'd have to drive the towing vehicle 365 days a year.
By having the lorry this goes out maybe 15 days a year or so - and the car is used the rest of the time.
Years ago farmers would stuff a sheep in the back of a van to move it - but rules now mean that a trailer has to be used with x sides and this and that and be able to be disinfected within x hrs of being used, etc etc. so farmers have been given NO choice by gov. but to have to have a 4x4 as they have to move animals using a trailer and not a van.
rema
Well-Known Member
Oh good point and the answer to that is i dont have a foggiest
.
And another thing is what about the people who have had there 'Gas guzzlers' converted to LPG and give off no emmisions whats so ever??.
And another thing is what about the people who have had there 'Gas guzzlers' converted to LPG and give off no emmisions whats so ever??.
airedale
Well-Known Member
don't worry - they'll probably count the number of cars you have as well ;-)
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
Does anyone here actually believe this global warming & pollution angle. I must say I was taken back with the programme last week regarding the weather trends over hundreds of years. Sounded quite convincing to me.
evsj
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Nobody in the country needs one, unless they live up an unmade road like Freshman, or they are a farmer. If you choose to keep horses as a hobby that gives you no more right than anyone else - you are creating a need.
[/ QUOTE ]
So only farmers need 4x4? In which case the 4x4 should be classified as a commercial vehicle because it is a necessity for work, therefore tax would be alot less than 400 quid.
Nobody in the country needs one, unless they live up an unmade road like Freshman, or they are a farmer. If you choose to keep horses as a hobby that gives you no more right than anyone else - you are creating a need.
[/ QUOTE ]
So only farmers need 4x4? In which case the 4x4 should be classified as a commercial vehicle because it is a necessity for work, therefore tax would be alot less than 400 quid.
rema
Well-Known Member
Yes i think it has some truth to it!.If the damage to the planet has already been done and everything is done to reduce harmfull emmisions can the planet reguvinate (sp) itself or has the damage gone to far to the point of no return??.
airedale
Well-Known Member
I believe that global warming IS happening - the melting of ice in the antarctic isn't going to happen otherwise - so yep - it's there
but I don't believe that GW is solely responsible for every single natural disaster, storm, flood, hurricane or whatever. Some perhaps - but not all - freaks of weather have happened since records began - after all the Thames froze over and was painted that way 350 years ago or so - but it didn't freeze over every year.
we always reckoned to have really bad winters every 20 to 30 years or so - 1947, 1962, 198? (can't remember think it was 1987)...
but I don't believe that GW is solely responsible for every single natural disaster, storm, flood, hurricane or whatever. Some perhaps - but not all - freaks of weather have happened since records began - after all the Thames froze over and was painted that way 350 years ago or so - but it didn't freeze over every year.
we always reckoned to have really bad winters every 20 to 30 years or so - 1947, 1962, 198? (can't remember think it was 1987)...
clipclop
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, Bugger!
I always thought Fuel was highly taxed anyway? So surely if we are driving around in our so called "Gas guzzlers" we are already paying plenty?
Re putting tax up on fuel,,,I think this could possibly make our produce a lot more expensive?
I know if tax was piled on to Fuel our business would go to the wall and 75 people would be out of work in a County that already has a problem with employment.
It is a no win situation.
Although the crappy Newspapers keep saying 4x4's, it must cover people carriers, sports cars etc.
At the end of the day, if they put the Tax up to £400. I will pay it and so will everyone else. We always do. We aren't as feisty as the French. We prefer to moan and do nothing.
I always thought Fuel was highly taxed anyway? So surely if we are driving around in our so called "Gas guzzlers" we are already paying plenty?
Re putting tax up on fuel,,,I think this could possibly make our produce a lot more expensive?
I know if tax was piled on to Fuel our business would go to the wall and 75 people would be out of work in a County that already has a problem with employment.
It is a no win situation.
Although the crappy Newspapers keep saying 4x4's, it must cover people carriers, sports cars etc.
At the end of the day, if they put the Tax up to £400. I will pay it and so will everyone else. We always do. We aren't as feisty as the French. We prefer to moan and do nothing.
clipclop
Well-Known Member
I didn't watch the programme but I have not believed in Global Warming for quite some time.
What ever is happening to the planet was going to happen anyway. You only have to look in to History to see far worse has happened.
What ever is happening to the planet was going to happen anyway. You only have to look in to History to see far worse has happened.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone here actually believe this global warming & pollution angle. I must say I was taken back with the programme last week regarding the weather trends over hundreds of years. Sounded quite convincing to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely not!!! There are two separate issues here: Global warming, which is an entirely natural phenomenon and over which man has no control, and conservation, which is extremely important. The two have been lumped together by the media to the point where people now think if they recycle their cardboard and use less fuel then the earth will cool down.
Does anyone here actually believe this global warming & pollution angle. I must say I was taken back with the programme last week regarding the weather trends over hundreds of years. Sounded quite convincing to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely not!!! There are two separate issues here: Global warming, which is an entirely natural phenomenon and over which man has no control, and conservation, which is extremely important. The two have been lumped together by the media to the point where people now think if they recycle their cardboard and use less fuel then the earth will cool down.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
The programme was fascinating, and well worth trying to catch on E4. There is a link here:
Great Global Warming Scandal
The whole theory of producing carbon dioxide and warming up the earth was first put forward as a joke!
Great Global Warming Scandal
The whole theory of producing carbon dioxide and warming up the earth was first put forward as a joke!
clipclop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The programme was fascinating, and well worth trying to catch on E4. There is a link here:
Great Global Warming Scandal
The whole theory of producing carbon dioxide and warming up the earth was first put forward as a joke!
[/ QUOTE ]
I will go and have a look. Thanks
The programme was fascinating, and well worth trying to catch on E4. There is a link here:
Great Global Warming Scandal
The whole theory of producing carbon dioxide and warming up the earth was first put forward as a joke!
[/ QUOTE ]
I will go and have a look. Thanks
hollyzippo
Well-Known Member
Was thinking about just refusing to pay!!? Well, seeing as the prisons are already overcrowded what can they do???!
Gosh I just love Labour!
Gosh I just love Labour!
the watcher
Well-Known Member
'Re putting tax up on fuel,,,I think this could possibly make our produce a lot more expensive?
I know if tax was piled on to Fuel our business would go to the wall and 75 people would be out of work in a County that already has a problem with employment.'
I did a rough calculation on this a couple of weeks ago, and reckoned that they would only have to 2p per litre to convert road tax to fuel tax to break even, which isn't so much
I know if tax was piled on to Fuel our business would go to the wall and 75 people would be out of work in a County that already has a problem with employment.'
I did a rough calculation on this a couple of weeks ago, and reckoned that they would only have to 2p per litre to convert road tax to fuel tax to break even, which isn't so much
airedale
Well-Known Member
The french have already done this a few years ago and they are still surviving - and wouldn't have done it if it meant harm - particularly to their farmers
at least if the tax is on fuel then everyone using the roads by motorised transport pays
now that the MOT is controlled directly via DVLA on the new forms - the old idea of needing to have road tax so that once a year you prove you've got MOT and insurance goes out the window. The police now have cameras that in seconds can check if your vehicle is taxed and insured
I think putting tax onto fuel actually would encourage more people to use more fuel efficient cars than the current system - it's the difference between the carrot and stick - road tax is a 'stick' - putting tax onto fuel is a carrot to use less fuel.
but govs. traditionally like to use sticks rather than carrots
at least if the tax is on fuel then everyone using the roads by motorised transport pays
now that the MOT is controlled directly via DVLA on the new forms - the old idea of needing to have road tax so that once a year you prove you've got MOT and insurance goes out the window. The police now have cameras that in seconds can check if your vehicle is taxed and insured
I think putting tax onto fuel actually would encourage more people to use more fuel efficient cars than the current system - it's the difference between the carrot and stick - road tax is a 'stick' - putting tax onto fuel is a carrot to use less fuel.
but govs. traditionally like to use sticks rather than carrots
galaxy
Well-Known Member
To those people who said that people in this country don't NEED a 4x4 I'd like to say that that is totally wrong!
I am a riding instructor. I used to drive a normal road car, which I did for economic reasons because they are cheaper to run etc etc. I did not WANT to pay out more money and have a 4x4. But I totally butchered my cars suspension, wheels, tracking and lots of other things, because it just was not designed to drive down all the country tracks and be parked in fields that I have to do because of my job. So I had to get rid and buy my 4x4. I had no choice. I needed it for work reasons and that alone.
I would like to add I do drive it around in 2 wheel drive 99% of the time, and I also drive my husbands road car whenever I can, and when I don't need to go off road whovere is driving the least distance drives the 4x4. I does max, about 150 miles a week, which I don't think is much at all. I would far prefer to see fuel tax go up because I think this would be fairer for people in my situation, but I can also see the problems in it.
I am a riding instructor. I used to drive a normal road car, which I did for economic reasons because they are cheaper to run etc etc. I did not WANT to pay out more money and have a 4x4. But I totally butchered my cars suspension, wheels, tracking and lots of other things, because it just was not designed to drive down all the country tracks and be parked in fields that I have to do because of my job. So I had to get rid and buy my 4x4. I had no choice. I needed it for work reasons and that alone.
I would like to add I do drive it around in 2 wheel drive 99% of the time, and I also drive my husbands road car whenever I can, and when I don't need to go off road whovere is driving the least distance drives the 4x4. I does max, about 150 miles a week, which I don't think is much at all. I would far prefer to see fuel tax go up because I think this would be fairer for people in my situation, but I can also see the problems in it.
Dovorian
Well-Known Member
Oh dear... I'm also in trouble on the horse front, 2 irish bred boys !
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Ok - some people do need a 4x4 - fair enough!
But the vast majority of country dwellers who have one do not really need one - most have horses as a hobby, not a career. I am just fed up with the attitude that only people in the country should own one! If I had to sell my horse and trailer and move to a town, I'd still want to keep my car.
galaxy
Well-Known Member
I totally agree that there are plenty of people who don't need one, including lots of horse owners. It's a bit difficult to distinguish, which is why I think that the tax should be on fuel.... As Jeremy Clarkson said a lot of sports cars are a lot worse than 4x4s!