4x4 road tax may go up to £400 a year!!.

[airedale]

sorry but no I'm not.

urban cycle for townie vehicles should be the measurement - not the overall fuel consumption

tbh - people will always campaign against something that is going to impact them - that is simple human logic

People who choose to go on holiday to barbados, maldives, oz or wherever are going to campaign against airline green taxes - someone who doesn't take holidays (like me) or doesn't go by air won't care tuppence

The problem is that the planet is a finite resource and as the world population grows the rate at which these resources are used up is increasing - thereby meaning that the speed at which resources are being exhausted is also increasing rapidly

So we have a few options

do nothing - mmmmmm - fine if you're my age 'cos what there is left will last my lifetime

just allow the terrorists and armies to blow the planet to bits - somehow I don't like this option as that one might just affect me as it could happen in the next 25 years

do what some of the americans are doing - build a cabin in the woods, stockpile food and ammunition and go native, self sufficient and 'escape' from reality

do your bit voluntarily to try and reduce emissions (which isn't tbh working as the people who are doing their bit are woefully outnumbered by those who have an 'I'm allright jack' attitude

get legislated to death to force people to 'toe the line' and that is the option that govs. are taking..

if you think the 4x4 tax is bad then consider the freedom you have in this country to keep your horse where you want to - in Germany for example their land rules are such that it is mainly only possible to keep your horse at livery in a 'riding club' and one of the reasons for those rules there is to do with environmental issues as that country has had a stronger 'green' party for much longer than the UK.

So put up with the 4x4 tax, the airline tax, the congestion charge, and instead lobby for something useful - like more public transport - that works, that isn't like tinned sardines, that is reasonably priced and that will have new carriages before 2014

 

[flyingfeet]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that the planet is a finite resource and as the world population grows the rate at which these resources are used up is increasing - thereby meaning that the speed at which resources are being exhausted is also increasing rapidly

[/ QUOTE ]
Balls - biodiesel requires no conversions and is readily available. Why is it not sold at the pumps like Europe???

Answer the government likes the money. This is just another way to tax people - simple as.

Why haven't the government got the guts to tax people earning over £100k 50%???

Then again if the government were efficient, like a company, and stopped its stupid pension schemes it wouldn't need the cash!

Btw the reason your council tax bills have all risen is because most screwed up their pension schemes and are all paying out fixed amounts so need extra money (you and I will have defined contribution, so if our pension manager messes up we personally loose the cash!)

 

[SpruceRI]

Oh Sh*t. Found it hard enough to pay the £175 tax for my 4x4 this year.

So where is all our tax money going? Are we going to be offered free conversions to Bio-diesel / cooking oil from our huge road tax?
Presumably the roads will be free from potholes, in fact gold-plated. They'll be able to afford it as the money rolls in. Free public transport - ha! No way. Pay pay pay you working class minions. To keep the Blair-ites' coffers filled with all that lovely money - and pay lip-service to environmentalists.

 

[Ashf]

[ QUOTE ]
a very unfashionable zero street cred Nissan made in Sunderland so to me that counts as 'Buying British'

the excuse made by a lot of people for having 4x4 is that they need it to go up hills and cross terrain - to do that it doesn't have to be the size of a small tank

however Arnie S. in california had another answer to the 4x4 issue when challenged about owning and driving two Hummers. One is converted to run on bio diesel and one runs on LPG

Now perhaps if the road tax on 4x4s was also according to fuel type...........that would be more environmentally acceptable - and I am an environmentalist as I have had and used both solar and wind power for my main energy source since 1998 - hence my 'beef' with those who drive in London (and other cities) in general and in 4x4s in London in particular - especially those on the school run

people here have posted about how much it would cost in jobs if 4x4s were priced up higher - but does no-one consider the cost to UK industry due to the goods stuck in traffic jams of 4x4s and people carriers on the blasted school run - the sooner this country gets school buses like the USA or makes kids walk like we used to do the better (or puts a zero parking zone of a 3 mile radius around every school in the country between 8am and 9.30 and 3pm and 4.30 on every school day)

I do agree about the tearing round country lanes - but in all sorts of vehicles, not just 4x4s - it is obscene near me that you cannot do more than 40 mph on a wide dual carriageway with no turnings on or off it and with good visibility and yet you can do legally 60mph on the lane at the end of my drive on a narrow hilly, twisting lane with hidden drives

but then - speed limits are for urban areas where the majority live - not for rural areas which is populated by the minority

also don't forget that mainly rural areas are mainly conservative or libdem and mainly urban areas are mainly labour - so with this gov. the rural area just doesn't count overall

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking critically at this, What difference does running on LPG or bio diesel make ?, LPG is still a fossil fuel, and it could be argued that by burning bio fuel be it bio ethanol or bio diesel that its driving up the market cost of a foodstuff which is an essential ingredient in the basic foodstuffs of the starving millions in Africa ?

We can look at the effect which the average 4x4 has on congestion, well to be specific the size of the vehicle. I drive a long wheelbase 7 seater Shogun, it has the smallest engine for the size of body and on a run can eek out just under 30mpg.
It is narrower and slightly shorter than a mondeo estate. Of course its taller, but since when has the footprint on the road been measured by the height of the vehicle ?

Mileage, I believe that the more you consume, the more you should pay, but static costs like high road tax are actually counter productive in the grand scheme of things because once someone has committed to running a car for a year, its cost like skyhigh insurance or skyhigh VED which are being proposed would determine how they could justify either (A) finding a cheaper alternative for their journey by running another very cheap car as a runaround, or (B) justifying the outlay of the big vehicle by using this (thirsty) vehicle a lot and reducing the cost per mile - the more miles PA, the cheaper each mile gets.

Wind power ? B&Qs solution is a £1500 wind generator, and to have fitted requires planning permission, needs strong winds to run at its optimum and generate anywhere near useful power, and at its best would struggle to run a hairdryer (it kicks out 500watts on a good day)

Solar power ? Photovoltaic cells are very very expensive, needs lots of space (and planning permission) and also crucially daylight. Conventional Solar heating requires heat exchangers and pumps to get the heat out of the panels.

How long does it take to cover the installation costs which are associated with these toys ? 10 years, 15 years, 20 years - try 28 years for the B&Q wind turbine - by which time the thing will have long worn out and be in the recycling bin - not to mention the energy required in manufacturing the things.

Eco friendly vehicles like buses or trams/light rail systems ? Road construction specifically for heavy vehicles like your average 10 tonne bus requires huge amounts of energy as these heavy vehicles compress the surface and destroy it so need lots of maintainance and a much more robust construction (concrete being a particularly bad offender in the eco stakes due to the vast amounts of CO2 created in the manufacure of cement)

A bus in a single pass over a road will cause more damage that 60,000 regular cars going over it. Bus VED is £300 per year, A HGV lorry is £1800 per year. Both produce over 7 times the average CO2 of a very thirsty 4x4. Most bus journeys taken over the entire day are sparsly filled. The Tube ? takes its power from the national grid which is generated from many coal, natural gas and oil power stations.

Don't get me started on the Prius

Ahem

 

[spaniel]

Thank you Stencilbum. An excellent, sensible and honest post.

Thumbs up smiley here.

 

[dieseldog]

This is not an increase in tax on 4x4s, it is an increase in tax on the least fuel-efficient cars. So if you currently pay the highest rate - which seems to be vehicles over 1600cc you might get caught. Some reports are saying though that it will only be for vehicles from 2002 onwards.

Personally what I would do is SORN my car one day and re tax it the next so that I get a whole year at the current rate before they have a chance to put the price up

 

[Ashf]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not an increase in tax on 4x4s, it is an increase in tax on the least fuel-efficient cars. So if you currently pay the highest rate - which seems to be vehicles over 1600cc you might get caught. Some reports are saying though that it will only be for vehicles from 2002 onwards.

Personally what I would do is SORN my car one day and re tax it the next so that I get a whole year at the current rate before they have a chance to put the price up

[/ QUOTE ]


The thing is that fuel duty is already there to penalise those who do mega mileage or drive thirsty vehicles around. It is a fair system and could be made fairer by removing VED altogether and calculating the rate on a car which does 12,000 miles per year @ 45mpg average (which is that which the prius driven in the real world is reported to give) or about 12p per litre more in fuel duty, how can the traffic wardens know if the car is legal ? replace the existing tax disk with an MOT disk, saved revenue from losing the bureaucracy at the post office or DVLA could go towards funding worthwhile schemes (like repairing the roads)

If you drive a car which is twice as thirsty as the benchmark, expect to pay twice as much for the same mileage or reduce your usage to essential journeys thus saving money and demonstrate your green commitment - simple

 

[dieseldog]

What I was trying to say is that it is not only 4x4s being affected and a lot more people will get hit with this than think they will.

I have a 1.7 Diesel and it is in the highest tax band. If I get hit with the £400 bill it's going. And will probably be replaced with a petrol car that does less miles to the gallon.

 

[Sooty]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally what I would do is SORN my car one day and re tax it the next so that I get a whole year at the current rate before they have a chance to put the price up


[/ QUOTE ]

If you have only a month or so to go then that is not a bad idea at all!

 

[xspiralx]

[ QUOTE ]
Why haven't the government got the guts to tax people earning over £100k 50%???

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't really have an opinion on the 4x4 debate but I just read this. Why should they? imo if people work hard for their money, why should they have a bigger percentage taken off them just because they earn more? Perhaps I am misunderstanding your meaning, but that seems really unfair to me.

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally what I would do is SORN my car one day and re tax it the next so that I get a whole year at the current rate before they have a chance to put the price up


[/ QUOTE ]

If you have only a month or so to go then that is not a bad idea at all!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget you'll also get cash back on your unexpired disc...

 

[Ashf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why haven't the government got the guts to tax people earning over £100k 50%???

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't really have an opinion on the 4x4 debate but I just read this. Why should they? imo if people work hard for their money, why should they have a bigger percentage taken off them just because they earn more? Perhaps I am misunderstanding your meaning, but that seems really unfair to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason why they won't tax the high earners is because they have just awarded increases to GPs to raise their income to average £100k - as well as their own incomes as MPs, it would be counter productive to their own slush fund wouldn't it

 

[spaniel]

Paying over 40% in income tax is painful enough ! Working for two weeks out of four to support this Labour government is a right slap in the face.

 

[nicnag]

This is driving me crazy! There have been so many stories about who is going to be targeted and how. The government have us over a barrel really, we can't tow trailers with standard cars now due to the weight laws, I personally have a 7 year old Nissan Terrano as that is the best I could afford. I use it to tow my trailer with my single horse. I can't justify a lorry and if I had one it would mean I was running two cars - hardly eco friendly! I would be happy to convert to bio-diesel if given a bit of help to do it. I also use my car for work - I work with sheep, so it's doing it's proper purpose. To get over the 'chelsea tractor' factor why can't we be asked to provide proof that we actually need these cars? I'd be happy to do whatever was needed!

 

[spaniel]

Id be quite hapopy to get an agricultural exemption....but then of course the govt could do another u turn and decide that horses ARE pets after all.....mind you they would have to let us bury them then.

 

[JoanneMS]

This subject REALLY winds me up. Its just another knock at the so called horsey set. What about the people who NEED a Land Rover or similar to go about their everyday life. If we all sold our trailers, and got lorries, would the Government be happier??, The worst for me is seeing a 4 x 4, with No Tow Bar on it. Thats the lot who should be paying the £400. I know some of you wont agree with me, thats fine. I no longer live in GB, and hearing about these plans makes me glad I dont, Sorry.Would like to hear the French, on the above proposals, there would be outrage.Good luck in what ever you choose to do.

 

[Ashf]

I like a good green argument me

 

[belly]

Joanne....I used to think the same about 4x4 without tow bars on. Until I met my (now) husband. His relatives live in the middle of nowhere, they are not farmers nor do they have any interest in horses but to get anywhere they have to cross a ford which can sometimes reach up to 18inches and climb two very steep hills each of 2 miles + long....they have an old disco which they have owned for 10 years and are now worried sick about the tax increases

 

[Anastasia]

We live in the North East of Scotland. Last year we were snowed in for 6 days solid. Without a 4x4 we would never have got out to work, let alone eat and get all the necessities in. The tractor snow plough chap that has the contract to do our road does such a crap job that if you dont have a 4x4 or tractor then there is not a blinking HOPE of moving!!

Now we pay the same council tax as those in the towns. However, we have no street lighting, no buses go past our door, no trains (the nearest is Aberdeen some 40 miles away). We also no longer get our rubbish collected weekly, only every two weeks.

So instead of one rubbish lorry coming up our road to 9 households, we all have to drive the 2 miles to the nearest recycling centre. So that is 9 cars each week doing a 4 mile round trip journey which we did not need to do before!! Now they have not cut our Council Tax because of this......oh no.......its gone up..........so tell me what are we paying for?

To top it off all the folks in the towns get their recycling picked up every second week, even though they have the recycling centre on their door step.........

So the Government is talking all echo friendly..........where then is the sense of making every single person in the countryside have to drive to their nearest town or village with their recycling!!! They are FORCING us to use our cars more now. Where is their echo logic in THAT ONE!

Also 4x4's are a necessity to some people who live in the countryside, its not just a status symbol or a pleasure drive, its something that has been designed to cope with crap roads and shifting loads that a conventional car cant manage.

My husband is self employed and needs his 4x4 to tow a trailer with cement mixers, ladders etc. Yeah he could buy a van or lorry instead but they are more expensive, less economical and would do more harm on the environment. Plus he is not making a huge salary to compensate for paying more in his road tax. Some people who run the Range Rover HSE Sports with a price tag or around £50k (sorry I picked this one out as it is one of the poshest...

) can possibly afford to pay another £200 a year on top of what they are paying, but we certainly cant!

I say this because a girl at my work has an HSE Sport. She lives in the town and purchased it simply because she "has always fancied a 4x4" and could afford to buy one (wealthy hubby....

), so another £200 to her is nothing. Previously she ran cars. They even had to raise the height of their garage roof to allow the jeep to fit!!

I say lets put all these bloody policiticians on the Castaway programme and see how they all survive without all their mod cons!!

 

[belly]

My biggest problem is paying it all at once....cant they bring in a monthly tax pament scheme....they could even knock a bit off for doing it by diredt debit ...lol

Will have to have a stash box hidden somewhere!!!

 

[Ashf]

He has indeed applied the £400 PA VED rate, but how he works it out on the older vehicles is still not clear

 

[mlm]

i have just had to change my bmw for a shogun. this was not because i wanted to but we had to sell the horsebox so i needed to buy a trailer. i hated the idea of selling my beamer but could not afford two cars (OH has a company van that u can only use for work).
since driving the 4x4 it appears the bmw was more of a gas guzzler. costing me over £70 a week. only problem is am now one of the 4x4 drivers who also happens to own a border collie as well!!!!!! by the way the dog came first. i am fed up of people dictating what we should do and making snide comments

 

[Ashf]

This budget never had anything to do with being Green

 

[Anastasia]

Well the budget is somewhat depressing news................

BUDGET HIGHLIGHTS
2p off basic rate of income tax
10p starter rate abolished
2p cut in corporation tax
Gas guzzling car duty up to £300 this year and £400 next
Beer and cider up 1p, wine 5p, spirits duty frozen
11p on cigarettes
2p petrol increase frozen for six months
More cash for schools and hospitals

 

[Anastasia]

FROM THE BBC WEBSITE:

I am in work, what is in the Budget for me?

The big news is that the basic rate of income tax has been cut by 2p to 20p from April 2008.

At the same time, the 10p income tax rate on the first £2,150 earned (2006/2007 tax year) above your personal allowance is being abolished.

This means in effect that you will have to pay 20% as soon as you earn more than your personal allowance rate.

Overall, many people may find they are not better off.



We drive a gas-guzzling people carrier, will the Budget mean extra expense?

Yes it will.

The Chancellor has upped Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) on the highest polluting vehicles, including many people carriers and 4x4s.

The annual cost of VED for the most polluting vehicles will rise from £210 to £300 this year and then £400 in 2008.


Further pain could be on the way. In the past two Budgets the chancellor has raised VED on the most-polluting cars by far more than inflation.

Now may be the time to switch to a less polluting car.

As part of the government's carrot and stick approach, vehicles with smaller engines in the lowest polluting categories will pay lower VED.

Vehicles in band B will see VED cut by 30%.

A 2p increase in petrol duty has been deferred until October.

 

[Llwyncwn]

Havnt read the whole thread, but can someone tell me exactly what the government term a 'gas guzzler'?

I have a 2.8 Fourtrak deisel which I use around the farm and for towing.

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
Havnt read the whole thread, but can someone tell me exactly what the government term a 'gas guzzler'?

I have a 2.8 Fourtrak deisel which I use around the farm and for towing.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you pay £210 per year for your road fund license currently, you are considered a gas guzzler

 

[Sooty]

We don't!! I knew it!! *does happy dance* It'll be those 8mpg thingies, not the good ole' diesel 4x4s!!

 

[spaniel]

I dont guzzle gas...I dont guzzle gas...I dont guzzle gas...


*joins Sooty and dances manicly round study....

*

 

[jinglejoys]

well Blue's going to have to drive me to work and back even more times but it won't help because I still need a vehicle to get down the drive and travel, and its going to take a months wages just to pay the tax.