A musing from a grumpy old git.

[Casey76]

Yes trainers are expensive, and yes £55 is cheap to compared to some of the pros for a lesson, but do you really think £55/£60 for a riding school lesson is fair game? That's not accessible for all but a few these days. ETS looking at the yard I have in my mind's price list, a non member private at a peak times is £73! For someone earning a basic wage, that's an actual joke. That's not even an advanced lesson, that's the price you pay if you want to learn how to stop, go, and do rising trot. So you look at the other option, ie the yard I mention and you'll learn the basics for almost a quarter of that but have no idea what you're doing or why.

Some horse owners are utterly oblivious to the state of the riding school world these days and its knock on effect into the ownership world. One kid (with her own pony) asked me if you had to dressage to do three day eventing, and how come as it's so boring. The bubble that some of the next generation of horse owning adults live in is so small that it shouldn't be a surprise that someone with their own horse only knows the basics and enjoys bumbling around in their own happiness.

I think that is another reason why the standard if riding is lower now. It is so expensive to. Have lessons at a riding school that many people take "the cheap option" and buy their first horse well before they are really ready/competent enough to look after one. They are then left trying to learn basics on an animal that probably needs schooling to be able to teach a beginner the basics. It ends up being a vicious circle as far too few people, once they get their first horse, actually continue lessons with an instructor.

 

[ester]

The thing is to that the more training you have the more you realise what is good and what is bad training, until you get to that point it can be hard to know when to change things etc.
Good training without your own horse is very hard to access and even then I have found it takes a long time/feel I am finally working it out a bit more (11 years into ownership!)
Everyone has different ambitions, aims, competitiveness, motivations etc. Thankfully there is something out there for most . I know some people with some very nice, correct horses that have been doing prelim tests for the last 5/6 years at least, and each outing is planned weeks in advance with pre training/day planning etc. For me that seems like a lot of build up for not a lot but if they enjoy it that is all that matters .

 

[spookypony]

I firmly believe any horse(that is sound) could achieve elementary dressage, SJ to 1.10mtr and event BE100
They just need to be trained and the riders believe it is possible.

A fun and interesting thread; thank you! Some complicated issues, however. I think there are many things playing into the full picture here, and it's worth unpicking a few. In general, as a hard-core German, I'd have subscribed to the same philosophy you state in the quotation above, but I've had to modify my way of thinking over the past years, thanks to several experiences.

Some of it is to do with the matching of horse and rider: I think in general, people are more willing to persist with animals that have problems of one sort or another, and to adjust their expectations to the animal in question. This can mean that they use the problems or perceived problems as an excuse not to do things, but it can also mean (and I think often does) that an animal that would have been retired or shot only a few decades ago, now continues in a different sort of career than it once might have.

I'll use the Spooky Pony as an example. When I got him, I was a confident rider on decently-schooled horses, with little XC experience, but good on the flat and over SJ to decent standard. I got loads of very competent help with him, and got him to a decent Novice score. He's perfectly capable of Elementary movements out and about, but he does find some tasks physically difficult, and it seems best to school him on hacks. Against advice from a normally-gung-ho instructor, I even persisted with jumping him until courses of about 75cm. I never tried to go bigger, because it really felt like an extremely bad idea, and also with little point: teaching pigs to sing, and all that. I eventually admitted we weren't going to get any farther in the traditional disciplines, competitively speaking, and went for Endurance instead. That's another discipline where a lot of people hit a wall when it becomes difficult, which in this area seems to be at 60km. Despite his physical limitations (he's a metabolic pony), we've made it to 80km (equivalent of 1*), and I think this is purely because he's mentally much more suited to this kind of work.

Now, the Ballerina Mare is far different. She is the most normal horse, temperament-wise, one could imagine, and finds the physical work of dressage easy. We should be able to motor on up the levels. Instead, I find myself struggling to find time to ride at all, with the current pressures of my career. It's a testament to her loveliness that I can basically pull her out of the field, get a decent Novice score, and feel as though that were a mediocre test---but I know that even just a month or two of really regular work would see us out at Elementary, no problem. I keep pummeling myself with guilt for not being able to put in the time at the moment, and I pummel myself with guilt for pummeling myself with guilt. It's pretty horrible, actually.

In the meantime, the mare is just enjoying being a bit round and grooming the two ponies. I took her for a hack yesterday, first time sitting on her for a month. She loaded like a dream, stood calmly eating her haynet at the other end, and was utterly lovely out on the hack (other than trying to eat the landscape, which wasn't allowed but didn't stop her from trying). Thinking about that objectively, that makes her a really useful little horse, even if I'm not hugely competitive just now!

Now, as we say in German, to overcome "my inner pig-dog" and get some sort of proper regime in place...

 

[Karran]

This is interesting and perhaps different my experiences are different from some of your experiences. I learnt to ride in London, I rode at the same place from 4 - 23. I learnt how to have soft hands (owner was obsessive about it) how to sit a buck and very much follow nose to tail. WHOLE RIDE T-TROT! type thing and all went in one go with a slight sense of relief that you weren't the one causing a hold up cos your horse had napped, or just decided to stop for a wee or just took longer to get going than the others.
I moved to Spain and rode some horses there, the guy didn't speak English, My Spanish was incredibly limited and for the first time I began to realise there was more to riding than what I was doing.
I came back and found myself a part loan. I taught myself to hack out on him. The loan ended. I found part-loan Current Horse who i have now ridden for three years. She is based at a competition focussed yard. I am not competitive but I found myself longing to jump the big jumps they did.
I was too scared. I have suffered with nerves my whole riding career. CH is a nervy sort and really we're not a good match. I have too many crises of confidence on her that takes a long time to recover.
BUT I've learnt how to hold a contact, sit a small bunny hop bounce-rear and we've worked on learning to get her more forward, how to use draw-reins (please note that this is not a default option but just something to help me get the idea of what it feels like to have a horse use itself properly) This has then led me to start learning how to get an outline (still a work in progress). I've learnt how to canter leg-yield and incline back to the track without freezing with fright that she will fall over as her legs will get in a tangle. YES that actually is a huge fear of mine.
I lost my nerve in hacking her, last summer I was more or less confidently going over 70cm fences but I lost that. Previous Loan Pony I trundled over bridges for the m25, under a tunnel for the kingston bypass and under a dark narrow railway bridge. One small spook on the road with Current Horse and I lost my courage for nearly 2 years hacking.

Recently I have had a sudden attack of bravery and have forced myself to take her out on small trips. I have been practicing with tiny 40-50cm jumps building myself small courses and teaching myself how to steer! How to remember to keep my heels down, to not panic that the jump looks massive and to just count to myself and pop over the jump.

I am sure that everyone (although kind) at my yard sometimes are baffled about why I struggle on, constantly having wobbles and seemingly staying at the same level (despite having lessons and riding three times a week).

I have ambitions. I have a bucket list item of doing a small ODE. I'd like to learn to ride up to Elementary and if I could get myself around a 90cm SJ course then I would consider myself an accomplished rider like the rest of them, however I also know that I'd probably try and push myself further once I reached that level (although maybe not with the jumping).

So to sum up this ramble I am probably one of those who seem to stick at the same level forever. But really when you're almost breathless with fright at the thought of going over a small jump (that my spaniel proved she could jump!) each day I get off and consider what I have done and I judge it against my riding last year and I tell myself that yes, last year I popped over a 70cm but now I did a 40cm course and I was actively looking for my next fence, working out the line and best way to approach it, or that I went for a hack and yes I came back trembling BUT she did a bunny hop rear and unlike last year when I would have instantly jumped off, I kicked on, gritted my teeth and finished my hack. That to me is improvement but not one that outsiders would necessarily see. I am constantly looking to improve, its just at a much slower level than others might.

 

[Trules]

Also people are too sensitive. Some of the people who have taught me could of had you in tears if you didn't have a thick skin but they taught me to ride!
agree with this, bring back the scary teachers!
I teach at a riding school,mainly kids and the parents are 100% risk averse, they really do not expect their child to fall off at all. we really are a risk averse society now, blame health & safety. they have totally lost that riding is a risk sport. if you don't accept the risk, don't get on.
for me the nervous hovering parents should be banned from watching, they hinder. and I see a lot of adults also who are really not prepared to fall off, so therein lies the problem. they want to ride, but do not want to put themselves in a position where there is any chance of hitting the ground.
I am ambitious, but have never got beyond BE100 due to horse issues. I would love to own something that I could compete at novice BE, but I would need serious money to fund one of those, currently have 3x horses in the field, one nappy, one lame, the other young and green. many reasons we struggle to reach our goals! plus BE is damn expensive

 

[daffy44]

Really interesting thread, thank you PaddyMonty. On the whole I agree with pretty much everything MilliePops said. I think there are so many reasons, children learning to ride "carefully" not allowed to take risks and fall off is a good start. Uninspiring training is another, as is people scaring themselves by over horsing themselves. But I think the main one is people are often just not prepared to put the work in, or they dont realise how much work it takes.

I must add that if a person is genuinely unambitious and very happy with where they are, then thats fantastic, no one has to compete etc, if someone is a really happy "happy hacker" loves their horse and their lot then thats wonderful. Its the people that are dissatisfied that need the right kind of help so they can dare to dream and more importantly find a way to make their dreams a reality.

I grew up in a non horsey family in London, I do understand the limitations life can put on you, and I also understand how hard I worked to achieve what I wanted.

 

[ycbm]

I've been riding over forty years, wasn't a pony club child but an adult first horse buyer. I don't think anything has changed except one thing.

There are masses more shows available for people to go to and far, far higher numbers of people have the transport to get to them.

The people who used to bumble around at home now bumble around a local show or low level affiliated.

Who cares?

I also think a lot of posters on this thread have no idea how much thirty quid for an hour's training is to someone on a lower income who may only just be able to afford to compete at all.

Paddymonty, your sixty hour working week and goal driven time consuming hobby plus wife and kids sounds like hell to me. Each to their own.

 

[crabbymare]

thought provoking thread. I think that the days where we wnt out and just did whatever classes we could and when there were very few people that had trainers for any discipline are gone and now training seems to be compulsory for being able to compete. this is not a bad thing but it can make people do a lot more in the arena instead of thinking that pretty much any horse that goes forwards and bends left and right can do an intro. after a while getting out and doing will often bring on the rider much more than a lesson will. riding schools are not helping by charging a lot to teach people to ride but equally they have overheads and need to pay staff properly. so if they charge enough to make a living for themselves they are pricing a lot of people out of the market. the people who have the ambition to improve and push themselves to go to say medium (as possibly the most that an average horse can get to in most disciplines) will often find some way to do it but there are so many who get disillusioned and give up. on the other side of the equation where do ambitious owners or breeders (with not much money) find people to ride their horse? as an example lets say "I" have a nice 4 or 5 year old at home and "I" want to give it to milipops (after seeing that she has done well with the ones she has) who can bring it on and possibly be the only way that could get (with no disrespect to the horses she already has) a better quality or more talented or less spoilt (whatever would apply) horse that could possibly go a few levels further than the ones they have. the costs would often be out of reach because paying for livery would be a lot more than keeping at home therefore "I" would be limited to riders close by and "I" may not have an arena so that makes things harder especially in winter. I would love to give chances to people who work hard with horses that on the surface are not the most suited to whatever discipline but other than not having the horses there is no way I could afford it, and so many owners who do have the funds would rather send the horse to an established name as they normally have the setup and transport or whatever that someone else who could easily be a very good rider at a higher level could only dream of. some people are just happy to carry on with lessons and are possibly simply not going to shows as they are happy as they are but possibly feel pressured to go out by friends. others may be inwardly not wanting to do anything they consider hard and others will push themselves and do all they can to be the best they can be on whatever horse they hcan get themselves on. I just wish the latter could somehow get better and better horses to ride

 

[McFluff]

Interesting thread. And I kind of find myself agreeing with every post.

Trying to work out what box I sit in. I've got a lovely young cob and a great trainer. It's taken us a year to go from newly broken straight line only (how she was when she arrived) to being able to do nice prelim at home. We can also do nice leg yield and shoulder in and has the right brain for training up the levels (so I've been told!). There is no doubt that other people would have progressed much faster than me. But does that matter? We've all got to start somewhere. Sometimes it is like the blind leading the blind (our first show together was interesting) but we have a good support team and I am willing to take the time it needs.

I do put the work in, and I am seeing progression, but I don't have the experience to do it as fast as others who have done it several times before. We've been out once, and I think it will take us many trips before we can produce anything like we can at home. I'm likely to be at intro/prelim for a while. But my time taken is not a lack of ambition, nor is it poor training, it is just a combination of a whole load of factors - critically my personal experience at this point.

I'm actually proud of our progress and I'm enjoying the journey. The only time I wobble is when I feel I have to justify our 'slow' progress to others! Which having written it down now feels pretty daft.

 

[Bernster]

Lots of reasons

1. Quality of horse in first place
2. Attitude of horse
3. Previous history of horse
4. Availability of transport
5. Money
6. Experience
7. Confidence
8. Desire


I could go on and on.

Well done for your achievements but I have seen riders crushed by people criticizing their goals and ambitions because they were below theirs. Each to their own and let us all enjoy our horses.

Sorry, but feel very strongly about this!

I'll read the rest of the replies now, but this really struck a chord with me. I may well be one of the riders you're talking about. But I say, so what, let people enjoy what they do and achieve their own successes, whatever those may be. It'd be a dull old world if we all had the same goals.

Ok if they're unhappy and something is holding them back, then it'd be nice for them to know there are ways through it, but otherwise let em be.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I'll read the rest of the replies now, but this really struck a chord with me. I may well be one of the riders you're talking about. But I say, so what, let people enjoy what they do and achieve their own successes, whatever those may be. It'd be a dull old world if we all had the same goals.

Ok if they're unhappy and something is holding them back, then it'd be nice for them to know there are ways through it, but otherwise let em be.

In 2013 I realised that as long as I woke up, wanted and was able to spend time with my precious horses that is all I need. Possibly not a remark you would expect to hear from an owner/rider who has kept horses for 40 years and been competitive most of those years. I also realised in 2013 that it matters not what other people think of me.

 

[HotToTrot]

Aha! But this is an arbitrary, very personal standard. BE90/100 is clearly well within your comfort zone, so it seems reasonable to you that everyone ought to be able to do it and it's hard to understand why something that seems easy to you is not achievable for other people.

So, two things:

1. As to the substance of it, whether BE90/100 is achievable for the whole world and his wife, I fink you is wrong. I don't think that absolutely every horse and rider could do it. BE100 fences can be big enough, if you're on a horse with limited scope, if you're prone to a wobble moment, if you've got one that says no to ditches/water/skinnies. Where I would agree with you is that most experienced riders, who want to compete, and who have chosen a horse to compete on, should be able to do it. But that's already quite a lot of caveats and narrows the field significantly from saying that every man and his wife should be able to do it.

2. As to the philosophical nature of it, whether the riders "should" be setting more ambitious goals - well, if that rider is you, then clearly you should be setting yourself the goal of going BE100. But everyone is just so, so different, and we all have wildly different goals, circumstances, abilities and ambitions. One person's two-star can be another person's intro test. So if it takes person 1 18 months to build up to their two star and it takes person 2 18 months to build up to their intro test, then - well done both. Well done for doing something you love and for putting the time and commitment in to doing it and making it happen.

 

[HeresHoping]

Personally speaking... pride. And money. Or rather, the lack of it.

Personally speaking, going from a very high ranking junior with offers of rides left, right and centre, dressage to medium level, eventing long format at 1*, SJ at 130, in another country, to being told by the Uni riding club here that you are too novice to be on their teams ... that's a kick in the teeth and a half.

Take an 18 year break. Get offered a horse. See yourself riding on video and think 'WTVF? Where has everything gone? Why doesn't it work any more?' Work very hard through the tears of frustration and flashbacks to Uni comments. Take on board advice from all and sundry. All and sundry recommend high level dressage trainer. Trainer doesn't care what you are doing. If you achieve a leg yield with your left leg stuck in right ear, well done. Horse breaks down.

Acquire OTTB. After all, RoR was mostly what you did up to age 20 because you were good. TB tries to kill you. Yes, really. Your bottle ups and leaves. Yes, really. Trying to put a bridle on when your hands are shaking and your stomach is doing belly flops is heartbreaking. You get so angry with yourself. Shoot TB on vet's advice.

Buy a beautiful ISH. You didn't want a 17hh horse but the offer was too good to miss. Not exactly a confidence restorer as has issues but maybe, just maybe, will enable you to fulfill your eventing dreams. Find a good instructor. Battle nerves and appalling riding for three months. Pluck up courage to buy a jumping saddle because if you're going to do it, you're going to do it. Up to this point, you have jumped one x pole at 2' once but horse bucked and you panicked and didn't do it again. Of course he bucked, you'd only been going round in circles to this point. You are too terrified to go hacking on your own having discovered horse can reverse at 100 mph. Have you any idea how much that hurts when once upon a time you would ride anything and succeed with it? And properly, because you could ride and were rated highly? Horse breaks.

Now have ageing Connie. I owe her everything. If I am to get around an XC course before I am 50 (and she is 20) we will be going out to win, not to get round. Because I am uber, uber competitive like that. So, we will lick the dressage first. We competed unaffiliated because that's what I could afford. I had lessons once a fortnight because that's what I could afford. Super instructor. Our aims... elementary. She doesn't have the capability of going much further She's been off work for a while but is coming back in. Her capabilities will be about a 90cm. I dream of a Novice. Still can't ride for toffee, but I'll get back on most things now.

I think the over-horsed issue is prevalent. I bit off more than I could chew until Jams came along. The girl next to me has had her TB for 6 years. She is a more than adequate rider, she worked in racing. But she won't hack out by herself, and she won't ride if the horse has been in overnight. Another, a young girl, will happily jump 110 at home. But she won't go out to shows because the horse was on his toes and got a bit excited the last time she went.

And the money issue. Well, it speaks for itself. When we do finally get out, it'll be a £40 unaffiliated fee and not the £240 minimum spend for a BE event (transport, etc.). Sometimes, you just have to adjust your dreams.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

In 2013 I realised that as long as I woke up, wanted and was able to spend time with my precious horses that is all I need. Possibly not a remark you would expect to hear from an owner/rider who has kept horses for 40 years and been competitive most of those years. I also realised in 2013 that it matters not what other people think of me.

Are you me??
Having had the t shirt etc in the past, I cannot believe that I'd be happy enough to be hacking, popping jumps occasionally at RC (I go because it's good for me and mount to get out) and occasionally drag hunting.
I never thought I could 'just' do this as was always schooling for comps, shows and events.
I feel that I have nothing to prove to anyone these days, so cheerfully tootle about doing my thing There are some friends who try to egg me on to compete, however most are younger by a good 15 to 20 years, I smile and carry on as I am

 

[ester]

Interesting thread. And I kind of find myself agreeing with every post.

Trying to work out what box I sit in. I've got a lovely young cob and a great trainer. It's taken us a year to go from newly broken straight line only (how she was when she arrived) to being able to do nice prelim at home. We can also do nice leg yield and shoulder in and has the right brain for training up the levels (so I've been told!). There is no doubt that other people would have progressed much faster than me. But does that matter? We've all got to start somewhere. Sometimes it is like the blind leading the blind (our first show together was interesting) but we have a good support team and I am willing to take the time it needs.

I do put the work in, and I am seeing progression, but I don't have the experience to do it as fast as others who have done it several times before. We've been out once, and I think it will take us many trips before we can produce anything like we can at home. I'm likely to be at intro/prelim for a while. But my time taken is not a lack of ambition, nor is it poor training, it is just a combination of a whole load of factors - critically my personal experience at this point.

I'm actually proud of our progress and I'm enjoying the journey. The only time I wobble is when I feel I have to justify our 'slow' progress to others! Which having written it down now feels pretty daft.

I would absolutely agree with having done it once you will probably do it with fewer bends in the road the next time. I'm still on first pony so and there has been plenty of bends, and I ride him so much better now than I used to and now he is too old .

 

[vallin]

Attitude of the horse is my excuse When I first got D I thought we'd be out at BE90 that season as she's got the scope and the movement. Unfortunately though between the two of us we've not quite got the brain. I love her and I love our lessons and the progress we're making at home (schooling round BE90 XC courses and jumping 90/95 SJ courses) but I'm not prepared to waste money on competitions where the chances are we'll get eliminated either in the show jumping or the cross country at 70 or 80cm.

 

[ycbm]

Aha! But this is an arbitrary, very personal standard. BE90/100 is clearly well within your comfort zone, so it seems reasonable to you that everyone ought to be able to do it and it's hard to understand why something that seems easy to you is not achievable for other people.

So, two things:

1. As to the substance of it, whether BE90/100 is achievable for the whole world and his wife, I fink you is wrong. I don't think that absolutely every horse and rider could do it. BE100 fences can be big enough, if you're on a horse with limited scope, if you're prone to a wobble moment, if you've got one that says no to ditches/water/skinnies. Where I would agree with you is that most experienced riders, who want to compete, and who have chosen a horse to compete on, should be able to do it. But that's already quite a lot of caveats and narrows the field significantly from saying that every man and his wife should be able to do it.

2. As to the philosophical nature of it, whether the riders "should" be setting more ambitious goals - well, if that rider is you, then clearly you should be setting yourself the goal of going BE100. But everyone is just so, so different, and we all have wildly different goals, circumstances, abilities and ambitions. One person's two-star can be another person's intro test. So if it takes person 1 18 months to build up to their two star and it takes person 2 18 months to build up to their intro test, then - well done both. Well done for doing something you love and for putting the time and commitment in to doing it and making it happen.

This in spades. Someone made the assertion that every horse can SJ jump 1m10. That's just not true. Some horses don't want to jump at all. I'm sure many are limited to well below 1m10 even when young enough and sound enough. A 1m10 course with 1m 10 and more spreads is a very big course.

I do agree with you PaddyMonty, that of people can't put the money and dedication that you do into it, then they aren't justified in complaining that they don't win. But really, who are they hurting but themselves?

Your ordinary rider out for a day of fun could really do without being looked down on by people who want, and are capable of, more than they do.

I used to jump BE Novice and hunt over big hedges. Many people used to say 'you're so brave'. My reply was always the same. Bravery is being scared of something and doing it anyway. It's no more brave to jump 1m50 than it is for someone less confident to jump 70cm.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

This thread and the sportsmanship one seems to have a real issue with anyone who wants to stay at the lower levels. I have never understood by the horsey world is so bothered by people who are happy to stay at prelim dressage, or only aim at an Intro, or be a happy hacker? Everyone in life has different ambitions and comfort levels, is that such a bad thing? Besides which those who happily potter around an intro or a pre-novice year in year out fund the upper levels of BE.

You yourself comment on the differing levels of ambition on your yard. So what? If they're happy and the horses arn't welfare cases, is it really that much of an issue? Live and let live. The last thing anyone should ever wish on someone is to make them feel as though they should be out competing at a higher level than they're comfortable with.

Re training - that's my point. It's not nearly as accessible as it used to be so when someone eventually gets their own, they have no idea of what they could be doing or what they're meant to be doing. Maybe those on your yard haven't had the grounding you've had?

I agree, teapot. The OP, in particular, was IMHO, very much in the vein of "everyone should want to do what I do.

Whilst I do agree about the standard of much of the available teaching and the RS which seem to cater for beginners only, I wonder why some people insist that their way is the only right way.

When I started riding there were several RS locally with instructors with military and hunting backgrounds, who were true horsemen and women.They have all closed or become livery only yards. Now it seems that the very few RS that exist in the area have been set up by non-horsey parents for their daughters who have, at best, done an equine related degree after leaving school with very few GCSEs. It is pretty obvious that those daughters will only be able to cater for beginñer riders, they just don't have the experience/knowledge/skill to teach more advanced riders.

I had excellent instructors during my teenage years (a very long time ago!) and have been fortunate enough to find others of a similar standard whilst owning my own horses BUT I am not competitive, I wish to improve my riding and my horses' way of going through my lessons. I have absolutely no desire to 'prove' my abilities to anyone else by entering any kind of competition. I am afraid that I found OP offensive and patronising.

I keep horses for relaxation, after doing a full on very stressful job. I find that the horses themselves can find enough ways to add to the stress without putting myself under pressure to arrive at a venue on time, remember a dressage test or a course of jumps, perform well and get back home safely. I shall continue to enjoy my horses in the way I prefer without feeling the need to justify my decisions to anyone else.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Hot to trot has hit the nail on the head (and she was probably standing on her head AND multitasking at the time so well done her!).

 

[ester]

I've also known plenty of amateurs, who do horses for fun have plans to do 90/100 whatever and get thwarted because something goes wrong, either physically, horse attitude or horse and rider combination. Those that seem to get the most out of it are those that accept they are doing this for fun, as time out of work, if a move up happens it happens but it isn't the end of the world if it doesn't and just to enjoy the days when it all works out, and the bits of the days when some of it does.

 

[meardsall_millie]

I speak as another grumpy old git, having got that way through many, many years of bitter experience and more recently some life changing events.

I could say lots about many of the views on this thread however what I will actually say is that if everyone spent a little (a lot) less time worrying about what everyone else is doing and what everyone else thinks (or probably doesn't) think about them, then the world, and in particular the horse world, would be a much nicer place.

Just go out and hug your horses, enjoy them, and do whatever the heck you want to do with them, at your own speed!

 

[Sukistokes2]

^^^^^^


Hahahahahah ......... Yep

 

[Irish gal]

The crux here is that everyone is different and while the OP is competitive, others are not. It doesn't mean though that they are getting anything less out of their horse ownership. Finding horses for people as an agent, I often view it as finding them a 'therapist' and I get as much enjoyment at later seeing photos of them on bridle ways as the photos of the winning rosettes from others.

There's so much more to having a horse than progressing compeditively. That's fantastic but so is being in a low mood and after ten minutes of grooming finding yourself singing as the horse has magically improved how you feel. And what about the buyers who confide that their time with the horse is when they escape the husband and household and it keeps them sane

Their circle of friends might be based round the livery yard and riding is a social activity, hacking with friends. They're also out in the air and nature - what could be better!

Plus there are fantastic horse people out there, who have never competed. I'm thinking of a man I know, who is an amazing judge of a horse - he could tell you what the animal is thinking. His youngsters top the select sales like Go for Gold, and there's one he produced now jumping Nation's Cups. He knew from the beginning the horse had that potential and he was produced accordingly. That man only hunts himself.

 

[milliepops]

I seem to have read a different op to many people. This I hope PM returns to the thread at some point because I found it really interesting chewing things over. Problem is when people start to feel like they are being judged personally and then things get defensive when it's a thread about a general topic. This is the competing and training board after all, that's what we talk about in here I thought it was a good thought provoking thread, like the old days of hho as picked up elsewhere up the chain

 

[ester]

TBF I never notice which board things are on because I only ever use the new posts bit!

I guess it is also all relative, compared to myself I would consider P+M a much more talented and able rider even if he doesn't consider himself one.

 

[Sukistokes2]

My sister and I are both riders and would no doubt be poles apart in this.....as normal.

She is working towards her first 1* and progressing up the levels doing death defying jumping and wonderful dressage......

Me I'm back in intro...


I went out to get a dressage horse.....came back with a Clydesdale with steering issues, over priced according to sister dear! As green as grass, seen nothing , done nothing but we just clicked, he made me laugh. Any thoughts of a dressage horse went flying out the window. In order to be really competitive I'd really need a more established horse. He doesn't even canter in a school yet ( cold shivers down the spin) but I love him. I loved him from the moment he stood on tippy toes and strained to keep me in eye line as I left the dealers yard the first time I saw him. If I wanted to go up the levels it would be better if I got another horse.....NEVER!
Will I go up the levels, yes of course I will, how long will it take? Well it will take a long as it takes. I will focus on improving my riding around my high pressured job and on improving his way of going and of course adding steering. Am I as bad a rider as might be thought being British trained , I think so but there you go. Do I care about haunting the lower regions of unaffiliated dressage, no not really! I will measure our progress, as small as it might be but always the plan will be to have fun !

You do as you see fit with your horses and I will do the same with mine. I wish every luck in all their endeavours

 

[meardsall_millie]

I seem to have read a different op to many people. This I hope PM returns to the thread at some point because I found it really interesting chewing things over. Problem is when people start to feel like they are being judged personally and then things get defensive when it's a thread about a general topic. This is the competing and training board after all, that's what we talk about in here I thought it was a good thought provoking thread, like the old days of hho as picked up elsewhere up the chain

Ok, it seems I need to type more!

I agree with you - to a point.

It has been good to see a post which has sparked debate. There have been so few for so long, I haven't even bothered to post for ages.

However, PM has presented (in my view and clearly in some other posters views) quite a belittling picture of those who are not achieving what he thinks they 'should'.

Maybe a while ago I might have had a similar attitude but lots has happened to me recently which has really helped to shape my changed view. In addition I've been doing lots of dressage judging in attempt to get my listing (fingers crossed - soon!) and there really is no way to describe the complete joy on some riders faces when they get to the end of their Intro test that they really have been training for, for 18 months plus. What does is matter if it's taken that long - what does it matter if they never get there at all - what does it matter if someone else thinks it's no achievement at all because they're off trying to achieve their own heady heights?

As Horsemad12 said early on in the thread, reading comments like those from the OP could destroy someone's confidence - what right has anyone got to do that?

 

[skint1]

That's a yup from me too! Wouldn't it be boring if were were all the same? Imagine how crowded the competition venues would be as well!

 

[Irish gal]

I know what you're saying Millipops, it is a good thread. Here's an interesting observation from two good amateur riders, doing BE100, that recently came over looking at horses. I took them to a training show to see a horse that was of interest and competing the day they arrived.

They were blown away by the standard of the children riding and told me that this would not be seen in the UK. They said the kids were at a way higher level here and all seemed to be such good little riders. They blamed UK riding schools where they said kids are allowed now to basically do nothing thanks to health and safety rules. By contrast a lot of the kids at the training show might never have had riding lessons, they're from a rural background, taught the basics by parents and then taken out hunting where they quickly learned to stick on Clearly, that approach is working better than a decade of lessons in an uninspiring riding school!

 

[rachk89]

I think it is maybe a lack of confidence? Perhaps this has been boosted from the fact that professional riders can show you what they are doing on a day to day basis now via social media, so people consider themselves to be incapable in comparison. Not blaming social media at all, but if you are watching a feed from a professional rider about how they rode 10 horses today and are competing 3 at the weekend, and then you see the won with all 3 horses, you'd feel a little inadequate in comparison when you've got a bog standard horse and a full time job stopping you riding it certain days.

I consider myself a bit competitive border-lining on stupid at times. I bought my horse when I lacked confidence in riding at all, and because of how talented he is (which has been said to me by many people so its not just my opinion) I believed we could go to high levels really quickly. Er wrong! My confidence is holding us back majorly, as well as his frequent injuries preventing me riding him, but we're hopefully getting there. I doubt we will be competing at all now even in winter this year, but hoping that from next year we will. I am refusing however to take him in Prelim dressage at all next year, we will have to start at Novice and make do. He should have been progressing to Novice by the end of this year anyway and hopefully learning Elementary, and we're not even close to that, so lots of schooling ahead for us.

Maybe I am unrealistic, and I probably am. But I am determined no matter what even if I dont compete him and even if it takes until well into his teens, but I want him to be able to do at least PSG level dressage. He is capable, I am maybe capable, so we will try. Our jumping will suffer because of my confidence though, so maybe he can just learn that with someone else.