A rant: Vet won't spay

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I'd rather they were shot or dumped than put in a shed for end to end litters until they prolapse...and then get shot or dumped.

I was thinking more about fighting practice and I would rather they were bred from, although I would prefer them not to be stolen at all. Which is why ours are never allowed out of our sight when they are off lead and behind a locked 6'+ gate when at home.

 

[KEK]

It's an interesting topic, and has seen much change in the amount its discussed since I've been practising. Bare in mind that speying has no further protective effect against mammary cancer (common) after the 3rd spey. Obviously it will be protective against pyo. Personally I spey my non breeding bitches after the 1st season. To ensure they are done growing and to try and reduce mammary cancer. There is no change in the rate of urinary incontinence whenever you spey them- my most incontinent bitch was speyed at 8, post litters. I don't have dogs, but if I did I would keep them entire. No medical benefit to castration (short of for old dogs and things like benign prostatic hyperplasia), only behavioural.

 

[P3LH]

It's no good showing a few seconds of the dog, or even many minutes of a dog, out for a walk and asking if the dog is happy, B.

At home, it can't sit or lay down in that rig and it has to be taken out of it. What does it do then, drag itself about with its front legs? (ETA yes, its on the video, it's awful, imo ) If it's paralysed is it likely to be continent? How does it ever pee or crap with any dignity?

Sorry, but I don't think anyone could ever persuade me to put a dog into wheels.

My first reaction about implants was similar, but some time ago I saw a dog waiting for its owner outside a shop. When the owner came back the dog was jumping up and down on two prosthetic implant hind legs with no issues at all. If that is achieved without large amounts of daily pain relief then I am fairly accepting of it in a younger dog.

You, and everyone else here, knows what I went through with one of our rough collies this year. For everything in this post, is why I was set on PTS even before realising how serious it was. We could have pursued in the short term with a sling or wheels etc - but that’s a no from me.

Life is to be enjoyed, not endured. Just my opinion. My family and friends know if I was ever in such a situation myself where life was an endurance, I would be setting course for whatever lies ahead pretty quickly too. Therefore, I owe my dogs that dignity too.

 

[KEK]

It's an interesting topic, and has seen much change in the amount its discussed since I've been practising. Bare in mind that speying has no further protective effect against mammary cancer (common) after the 3rd spey. Obviously it will be protective against pyo. Personally I spey my non breeding bitches after the 1st season. To ensure they are done growing and to try and reduce mammary cancer. There is no change in the rate of urinary incontinence whenever you spey them- my most incontinent bitch was speyed at 8, post litters. I don't have dogs, but if I did I would keep them entire. No medical benefit to castration (short of for old dogs and things like benign prostatic hyperplasia), only behavioural.

Ugh I meant 3rd *season*.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I never used to routinely spay my bitches, although 2 were done at around 8 years old after developing pyo, both had been bred from. I would never spay for my convenience, and don't have a problem managing seasons. However, after losing a bitch at 13 to pyo (she survived surgery but never really recovered) the 2 bitches I have had since her have both been spayed, one after a litter at 5 and the other at 2 years old. I have 2 males, one is castrated, the other is only 11 months and I am still not sure, I would like to keep him entire but have a feeling he may become a bit of a sex pest, or how staying entire will affect the relationship between the 2 males.

I am with CC I would never use wheels for mine, although having GSDs I have suffered the heartache of DM on several occasions. Yes I have seen videos of dogs on wheels in a park "running" round looking happy enough but what about the rest of the time when they struggle to stand, become incontinent, rub their back paws raw etc. I owe it to my dogs to look at their whole quality of life, definitely a time to apply " better a week too soon than a day too late" in my view.

 

[skinnydipper]

Utter stupidity

Do you have a Shih Tzu cross called Elvis?

 

[scats]

Does the dog have some anxieties or behavioural issues the vet thinks will be made worse after neutering?

He’s a boisterous working cocker but very sociable and doesn’t have any anxiety issues. He’s four now.

 

[scats]

I've seen the same directed at people who think its acceptable for a paralysed dog to have a wheely wheelchair thing (whatever they are called) yet I see them as perfectly acceptable. I've never understood why people can't. Does the dog in that photo look utterly miserable? Nope. Not to my eyes. How can you say this dog is unhappy in the video. If he had a choice what would he prefer? If you owned him what would you prefer?.

View attachment 81822
Everyone has an opinion and everyone takes a different opinion, but ultimately I guess no one is right or wrong.

I feel very conflicted about this. Although the dogs seem to enjoy themselves when out and about (we had one locally a few years ago, but I think he’s since passed away), I’m not sure that dragging their bodies around at home, when the contraption isn’t on, sits very well with me.
Its not something that I would personally do.

 

[Birker2020]

As far as I'm aware they can still wee and defecate whilst in a wheelchair, it doesn't stop them doing either.
And normally they bandage the back legs if they do drag them around.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Someone I know had her GSD in a wheelchair. Fine while she was in it but the rest of the day while her owner was out working the dog was just left to drag herself around. Not what I would want for any of mine.

 

[MurphysMinder]

As far as I'm aware they can still wee and defecate whilst in a wheelchair, it doesn't stop them doing either.
And normally they bandage the back legs if they do drag them around.

DM, which is probably the most common reason for dogs being in wheelchairs , leads to incontinence so whether they can go in a wheelchair or not is irrelevant really, a dog that has always been clean in the house will often become stressed when it has accidents and has to lie in its own excrement. Each to their own but as I have already said its not something I would choose for my own dogs, they deserve some dignity in their old age in my view.

 

[Karran]

Last winter I was walking my two and saw a man striding out on his phone, struggling behind him was a lab in a wheelchair, he was working so hard to get his wheels through the mud and the owner was completely oblivious to the struggle his dog was having.
I couldn't/wouldn't put mine through that.

 

[Moobli]

I always think never say never … but at this point in time I could never see me using wheels for my dogs. Where I live is rough, hilly terrain so not practical for wheels but as others have said it’s more about the quality of life for the dog. I don’t want my dogs to just exist.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Okk, soo I think we have somewhat valid reason to spay now. For a little while now she's been carrying around a stuffed toy, obsessively licking it, nibbling it, whining, humping, and just being odd. Mostly in the evening, but still. How long do phantom pregnancies go on for?

She clearly has some hormones going that are causing her anxiety. When we were away with her for 2 nights on a hiking trip, she wasn't quite as focused on it as she is at home. I am going to speak to our vet again, and if there's resistance I'll call around to some others, and maybe they'll be more willing.

 

[Cob Life]

actually there is a massive risk in certain breeds in castrating, especially if its done before they are mature (as is the fashion these days to get them done before a year old). The castration itself is low risk but ridding the dog of sex hormones has major effects on other phsyiological systems as it matures.

I expect its the same for horses, most other countries manage entires far differently than we do (for better and worse) and mares of course, are entire although most seem to forget that. I would love to see a long term study on the effects of gelding horses but someone would need to pay for it.

My vets won’t neuter before 18months for all dogs, 24 months for large breeds. Bitches they prefer to spay after the second or third season, mine was done after her first as she was really ill during her season and had a phantom pregnancy after.

I spay bitches for health reasons but don’t routinely neuter dogs, it can have a huge effect on behaviour, especially in nervous animals.

 

[GSD Woman]

When I worked at a discount veterinary surgical and dental clinic I saw plenty of bitches with pyo. Some of these were knocking at death's door. Many owners had no idea that pyo even existed.

Rudy was castrated recently and it hasn't seemed to diminish his drive at all. We were working on variable surface tracking today and 3 or 4 men were standing on his track chatting after their jog. They had moved on of his articles too. He found the article and kept on with his track. This was on asphalt BTW. These men were impressed that he didn't pay them any attention and I don't know if they understood when I told them he had a job to do. Then they asked later if he was a Belgian. Oy.

Freddie was spayed after her second heat. I couldn't take Freddie and Rudy singing love songs all night long. I wanted to wait until she was 2 but my sanity was more important./-

 

[Clodagh]

GSD we used to call it ‘The Lament of Lost Love’ ?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Just got the Labrador spayed. The vet agreed because she was getting a bit hysterical with her phantom pregnancies.

700€ later..

It would've been cheaper in the US, but she's due to be in heat when we fly there so we opted to get it done while still in Europe.

She is insured with a premium plus plan that "covers" operations and they'll pay a whopping 75€ toward the spay.

IMO it's stupidly expensive here, but I hate to say that because I do appreciate vets. I brought her to her appointment at 10 and we were home (but drunk) by noon.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We had our almost 3 yr old Lab spayed in April because she was a martyr to her hormones. We paid less than £300 and I wouldn't have said that our vets were cheap!
Wishing her a speedy recovery!

 

[Clodagh]

£850 for the spaniel. But that was an emergency and required extra meds and scans. And a vet staying late.
At least its done, CC.

 

[meleeka]

Just got the Labrador spayed. The vet agreed because she was getting a bit hysterical with her phantom pregnancies.

700€ later..

It would've been cheaper in the US, but she's due to be in heat when we fly there so we opted to get it done while still in Europe.

She is insured with a premium plus plan that "covers" operations and they'll pay a whopping 75€ toward the spay.

IMO it's stupidly expensive here, but I hate to say that because I do appreciate vets. I brought her to her appointment at 10 and we were home (but drunk) by noon.

I paid £630 last week for a keyhole spey for my German Shepherd. I had her done for the same reason. She wasn’t having classic phantom pregnancies, but was nesting and digging and it was getting worse after each season. She clearly wasn’t happy. Apparently the risk of pyo is greater if they have phantom pregnancies, so I didn’t want to risk an emergency situation and open spey if I didn’t have to. Her recovery has been uneventful and after keeping her on a lead was like flying a kite, she’s back to normal exercise now (no ball throwing, but off lead).

 

[GSD Woman]

I've been lucky with my bitches as I've had them all spayed when I worked in vet hospitals so some were free and or else very discounted.

I would be majorly peeved if only 75 euros was paid toward 700 euros on a surgery where I've been making insurance payments.