Laafet
Well-Known Member
I see what you are saying but for the GSD's, why are they allowed to show if they are lame and cannot stand that is wrong and endorsed by the KC.
Aaaarrrgghhhh - Pedigree dogs programme....
- Thread starter Acolyte
- Start date
joeanne
Well-Known Member
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So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
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like i said, supply and demand. people are prepared to pay £800 for a deformed dog, so people breed and sell them. but its peoples ignorance of what they are buying into, and they who are at fault, not the k.c
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
[/ QUOTE ]
like i said, supply and demand. people are prepared to pay £800 for a deformed dog, so people breed and sell them. but its peoples ignorance of what they are buying into, and they who are at fault, not the k.c
Starbucks
Well-Known Member
On the whole cross breed thing, ok so it's bad because the puppies will go to bad homes, end up in rescue etc. etc. but at least they would be much more likely to be healthy individuals!!
Poor dogs is all I can say, all down to stupid humans, for there own entertainment.
Poor dogs is all I can say, all down to stupid humans, for there own entertainment.
X
xspiralx
Guest
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Oh okay - but they must do it for the money, if not to live on. My problem is with the KC, and has been for many years.
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I give up
I have known people who show and breed dogs for 38 years and not one of them has 'done it for the money'.....
[/ QUOTE ]
But presumably money is part of the incentive?
I mean, one litter of say 10 puppies, each going for around £500, that must make a pretty substantial profit, even allowing for the odd illness or accident?
[ QUOTE ]
Oh okay - but they must do it for the money, if not to live on. My problem is with the KC, and has been for many years.
[/ QUOTE ]
I give up
[/ QUOTE ]
But presumably money is part of the incentive?
I mean, one litter of say 10 puppies, each going for around £500, that must make a pretty substantial profit, even allowing for the odd illness or accident?
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because the dog advertised in the local paper is not a result of years of careful selected breeding, the best veterinary attention, the stud fee for the right stud dog, etc etc etc ....
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because the dog advertised in the local paper is not a result of years of careful selected breeding, the best veterinary attention, the stud fee for the right stud dog, etc etc etc ....
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh okay - but they must do it for the money, if not to live on. My problem is with the KC, and has been for many years.
[/ QUOTE ]
I give up
I have known people who show and breed dogs for 38 years and not one of them has 'done it for the money'.....
[/ QUOTE ]
But presumably money is part of the incentive?
I mean, one litter of say 10 puppies, each going for around £500, that must make a pretty substantial profit, even allowing for the odd illness or accident?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldnt know TBH - cavaliers dont have 10 in a litter, they usually have four or so?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh okay - but they must do it for the money, if not to live on. My problem is with the KC, and has been for many years.
[/ QUOTE ]
I give up
[/ QUOTE ]
But presumably money is part of the incentive?
I mean, one litter of say 10 puppies, each going for around £500, that must make a pretty substantial profit, even allowing for the odd illness or accident?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldnt know TBH - cavaliers dont have 10 in a litter, they usually have four or so?
Laafet
Well-Known Member
Still no answer on the obviously lame deformed GSD's, why are you not defending them?
Starbucks
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
like i said, supply and demand. people are prepared to pay £800 for a deformed dog, so people breed and sell them. but its peoples ignorance of what they are buying into, and they who are at fault, not the k.c
[/ QUOTE ]
So some people don't do enough research and do not understand, probably through ignorance, but also nievity, TBH who would think that knowledgable breeder would breed from animals which they knew would pass on hireditory disorders??
You are saying that, as long as there is a market, then it is fine for breeders to produce dogs that they know could potentially haves serious problems, and to be supported by the KC??
Quote:
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
like i said, supply and demand. people are prepared to pay £800 for a deformed dog, so people breed and sell them. but its peoples ignorance of what they are buying into, and they who are at fault, not the k.c
[/ QUOTE ]
So some people don't do enough research and do not understand, probably through ignorance, but also nievity, TBH who would think that knowledgable breeder would breed from animals which they knew would pass on hireditory disorders??
You are saying that, as long as there is a market, then it is fine for breeders to produce dogs that they know could potentially haves serious problems, and to be supported by the KC??
joeanne
Well-Known Member
Acolyte, i can see where in certain cases the whole "breed standard" is wrong.
i can go and buy a pug for £800 and that dog is likely to have respitory problems amongst other things. that to me is not carefully selected breeding.
if someone could show me a pug that did was not going to show up a whole host of problems later on down the line i might think about it but until then.....
now i know there are some very good breeders out there, and its only a few that bring everyone else down, but in certain breeds i can sort of see the argument here
i can go and buy a pug for £800 and that dog is likely to have respitory problems amongst other things. that to me is not carefully selected breeding.
if someone could show me a pug that did was not going to show up a whole host of problems later on down the line i might think about it but until then.....
now i know there are some very good breeders out there, and its only a few that bring everyone else down, but in certain breeds i can sort of see the argument here
GinaB
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
On the whole cross breed thing, ok so it's bad because the puppies will go to bad homes, end up in rescue etc. etc. but at least they would be much more likely to be healthy individuals!!
Poor dogs is all I can say, all down to stupid humans, for there own entertainment.
[/ QUOTE ]
They can have just the same problem as pedigrees though eg take a lab with dodgy hips and breed it to something else and it's still going to inherit the bad hips, regardless of what it has been crossed with. Just because it is a crossbreed does not mean it is going to be healthy.
On the whole cross breed thing, ok so it's bad because the puppies will go to bad homes, end up in rescue etc. etc. but at least they would be much more likely to be healthy individuals!!
Poor dogs is all I can say, all down to stupid humans, for there own entertainment.
[/ QUOTE ]
They can have just the same problem as pedigrees though eg take a lab with dodgy hips and breed it to something else and it's still going to inherit the bad hips, regardless of what it has been crossed with. Just because it is a crossbreed does not mean it is going to be healthy.
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
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People who show dogs breed litters purely to try and breed something which they consider will become an excellent example of the breed. Whether that is what you and I would consider to be a healthy happy dog is another matter They do not consider whether they are going to make a profit, or whether their top winning dog will become a succesful stud dog and therefore make them some money - they just care about whether they get a prize winning dog
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So they do it to get "a prize winning dog" so for there own glory basically. Is that any better than doing it for money??
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Starbucks I dont think it is any better than doing it for the money - I detest the dog showing scene, I would never be a part of it, and I totally agree that the Kennel Club needs to take a serious look at what the hell is going on in some breeds. I have been trying to respond to what I have considered to be inaccurate statements in this thread and have tried to show what the true picture of dog showing/breeding is when it involves responsible caring breeders.
However I think I give up now
[ QUOTE ]
People who show dogs breed litters purely to try and breed something which they consider will become an excellent example of the breed. Whether that is what you and I would consider to be a healthy happy dog is another matter They do not consider whether they are going to make a profit, or whether their top winning dog will become a succesful stud dog and therefore make them some money - they just care about whether they get a prize winning dog
[/ QUOTE ]
So they do it to get "a prize winning dog" so for there own glory basically. Is that any better than doing it for money??
[/ QUOTE ]
Starbucks I dont think it is any better than doing it for the money - I detest the dog showing scene, I would never be a part of it, and I totally agree that the Kennel Club needs to take a serious look at what the hell is going on in some breeds. I have been trying to respond to what I have considered to be inaccurate statements in this thread and have tried to show what the true picture of dog showing/breeding is when it involves responsible caring breeders.
However I think I give up now
joeanne
Well-Known Member
starbucks i never said it was right. i said that as long as people show an interest in these dogs there will always be someone ready to sell you one!
Laafet
Well-Known Member
Have to say when we have bought pedigree dogs or cats we check out their breeding for serious cases of inbreeding just to try to minise the risk for disaster. Do the same with horses as well but then even with the TB's the inbreeding doesn't seem as rife and I like PB's anyway.
littlemisslauren
Well-Known Member
my dad bred his own terriers and showed them for 10 years, he did not do it for the money, and when he got my mother up the duff (with moiiii) he had to sell his dogs and a job as a bricklayer to support a growing family - so surely that demonstrates how un-lucrative (if that is even a word) breeding was. (this was 20 years ago though)
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
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Still no answer on the obviously lame deformed GSD's, why are you not defending them?
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Laafet please dont adopt an confrontational style of questioning with me. I have responded to one of Starbucks posts above - which is what I was doing rather than responding to your particular post at that moment in time - to explain how I feel about dog showing/breeding in general. If you could take that as a response to your query too I would be most grateful as it would save me typing it all over again
Ets - oops, that should have been 'above' not 'below'!
Still no answer on the obviously lame deformed GSD's, why are you not defending them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Laafet please dont adopt an confrontational style of questioning with me. I have responded to one of Starbucks posts above - which is what I was doing rather than responding to your particular post at that moment in time - to explain how I feel about dog showing/breeding in general. If you could take that as a response to your query too I would be most grateful as it would save me typing it all over again
Ets - oops, that should have been 'above' not 'below'!
Starbucks
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
Because the dog advertised in the local paper is not a result of years of careful selected breeding, the best veterinary attention, the stud fee for the right stud dog, etc etc etc ....
[/ QUOTE ]
Carefully selected breeding... that could have made the puppy totally knackered from day one basically.
Quote:
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
Because the dog advertised in the local paper is not a result of years of careful selected breeding, the best veterinary attention, the stud fee for the right stud dog, etc etc etc ....
[/ QUOTE ]
Carefully selected breeding... that could have made the puppy totally knackered from day one basically.
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
Because the dog advertised in the local paper is not a result of years of careful selected breeding, the best veterinary attention, the stud fee for the right stud dog, etc etc etc ....
[/ QUOTE ]
Carefully selected breeding... that could have made the puppy totally knackered from day one basically.
[/ QUOTE ]
Could have done - but wouldnt have done from a responsible breeder.
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?
Because the dog advertised in the local paper is not a result of years of careful selected breeding, the best veterinary attention, the stud fee for the right stud dog, etc etc etc ....
[/ QUOTE ]
Carefully selected breeding... that could have made the puppy totally knackered from day one basically.
[/ QUOTE ]
Could have done - but wouldnt have done from a responsible breeder.
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
starbucks i never said it was right. i said that as long as people show an interest in these dogs there will always be someone ready to sell you one!
[/ QUOTE ]
although with the king charles spaniels, say a family was buying their first dog, they'd go to a breeder because thats usually advice and buy a perfectly healthy looking pup. i dont think its neccessarily fair to blame the buyers as they're not to know. it shoudl be the responsiblity of the breeders to ensure their dogs are healthy and the responsibilty of the KC to ensure the reputablility of the breeders.
starbucks i never said it was right. i said that as long as people show an interest in these dogs there will always be someone ready to sell you one!
[/ QUOTE ]
although with the king charles spaniels, say a family was buying their first dog, they'd go to a breeder because thats usually advice and buy a perfectly healthy looking pup. i dont think its neccessarily fair to blame the buyers as they're not to know. it shoudl be the responsiblity of the breeders to ensure their dogs are healthy and the responsibilty of the KC to ensure the reputablility of the breeders.
Starbucks
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
On the whole cross breed thing, ok so it's bad because the puppies will go to bad homes, end up in rescue etc. etc. but at least they would be much more likely to be healthy individuals!!
Poor dogs is all I can say, all down to stupid humans, for there own entertainment.
They can have just the same problem as pedigrees though eg take a lab with dodgy hips and breed it to something else and it's still going to inherit the bad hips, regardless of what it has been crossed with. Just because it is a crossbreed does not mean it is going to be healthy.
[/ QUOTE ]
I said more likely, which I believe is proven - no??
I'm not going on a anti pedigree rant - obviously there are breeders who do there tests and everything and thats all good. But if what I saw on the programme is correct, if they win at shows they don't really care about that stuff, just breed anyway!!
Quote:
On the whole cross breed thing, ok so it's bad because the puppies will go to bad homes, end up in rescue etc. etc. but at least they would be much more likely to be healthy individuals!!
Poor dogs is all I can say, all down to stupid humans, for there own entertainment.
They can have just the same problem as pedigrees though eg take a lab with dodgy hips and breed it to something else and it's still going to inherit the bad hips, regardless of what it has been crossed with. Just because it is a crossbreed does not mean it is going to be healthy.
[/ QUOTE ]
I said more likely, which I believe is proven - no??
I'm not going on a anti pedigree rant - obviously there are breeders who do there tests and everything and thats all good. But if what I saw on the programme is correct, if they win at shows they don't really care about that stuff, just breed anyway!!
joeanne
Well-Known Member
Acolyte i have yet to meet a pug that can run without making a strange noise when it tries to draw breath.
i think we have to accept that as a whole, mankind has messed a little too much with certain breeds.
you are right in that not all breeders are bad ones, in fact they are fairly few and far between thankfully, but it is going to take more than a few good breeders to try and rectify the mess thats been made in some breeds
i think we have to accept that as a whole, mankind has messed a little too much with certain breeds.
you are right in that not all breeders are bad ones, in fact they are fairly few and far between thankfully, but it is going to take more than a few good breeders to try and rectify the mess thats been made in some breeds
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Acolyte i have yet to meet a pug that can run without making a strange noise when it tries to draw breath.
i think we have to accept that as a whole, mankind has messed a little too much with certain breeds.
you are right in that not all breeders are bad ones, in fact they are fairly few and far between thankfully, but it is going to take more than a few good breeders to try and rectify the mess thats been made in some breeds
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is exactly what I have said somewhere above here in response to one of Starbucks questions....
Acolyte i have yet to meet a pug that can run without making a strange noise when it tries to draw breath.
i think we have to accept that as a whole, mankind has messed a little too much with certain breeds.
you are right in that not all breeders are bad ones, in fact they are fairly few and far between thankfully, but it is going to take more than a few good breeders to try and rectify the mess thats been made in some breeds
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is exactly what I have said somewhere above here in response to one of Starbucks questions....
joeanne
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
starbucks i never said it was right. i said that as long as people show an interest in these dogs there will always be someone ready to sell you one!
[/ QUOTE ]
although with the king charles spaniels, say a family was buying their first dog, they'd go to a breeder because thats usually advice and buy a perfectly healthy looking pup. i dont think its neccessarily fair to blame the buyers as they're not to know. it shoudl be the responsiblity of the breeders to ensure their dogs are healthy and the responsibilty of the KC to ensure the reputablility of the breeders.
[/ QUOTE ]
sorry but i totally disagree.
its the buyers responsibilty to make sure the they know about the breed BEFORE going out to purchase one, and these days with the internet there is no excuse for not knowing, because a search engine isnt "bias" and will show good and bad alike
[ QUOTE ]
starbucks i never said it was right. i said that as long as people show an interest in these dogs there will always be someone ready to sell you one!
[/ QUOTE ]
although with the king charles spaniels, say a family was buying their first dog, they'd go to a breeder because thats usually advice and buy a perfectly healthy looking pup. i dont think its neccessarily fair to blame the buyers as they're not to know. it shoudl be the responsiblity of the breeders to ensure their dogs are healthy and the responsibilty of the KC to ensure the reputablility of the breeders.
[/ QUOTE ]
sorry but i totally disagree.
its the buyers responsibilty to make sure the they know about the breed BEFORE going out to purchase one, and these days with the internet there is no excuse for not knowing, because a search engine isnt "bias" and will show good and bad alike
Starbucks
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Starbucks I dont think it is any better than doing it for the money - I detest the dog showing scene, I would never be a part of it, and I totally agree that the Kennel Club needs to take a serious look at what the hell is going on in some breeds. I have been trying to respond to what I have considered to be inaccurate statements in this thread and have tried to show what the true picture of dog showing/breeding is when it involves responsible caring breeders.
However I think I give up now
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your reply A, I wasn't having a go, it's just got me really angry!!!
That stupid woman about the bull dogs who said something along the line of "well they are fine normally, it's when they get excited they can't breath properly, they might pass out, but then they come round ok." I mean WTF???????
I wouldn't be suprised if there are a lot fewer peeps at Crufts next year!!
Starbucks I dont think it is any better than doing it for the money - I detest the dog showing scene, I would never be a part of it, and I totally agree that the Kennel Club needs to take a serious look at what the hell is going on in some breeds. I have been trying to respond to what I have considered to be inaccurate statements in this thread and have tried to show what the true picture of dog showing/breeding is when it involves responsible caring breeders.
However I think I give up now
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your reply A, I wasn't having a go, it's just got me really angry!!!
That stupid woman about the bull dogs who said something along the line of "well they are fine normally, it's when they get excited they can't breath properly, they might pass out, but then they come round ok." I mean WTF???????
I wouldn't be suprised if there are a lot fewer peeps at Crufts next year!!
Laafet
Well-Known Member
Was not being confrontational, that response was not up when I typed my original question or the last time I posted a remark.
joeanne
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Acolyte i have yet to meet a pug that can run without making a strange noise when it tries to draw breath.
i think we have to accept that as a whole, mankind has messed a little too much with certain breeds.
you are right in that not all breeders are bad ones, in fact they are fairly few and far between thankfully, but it is going to take more than a few good breeders to try and rectify the mess thats been made in some breeds
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is exactly what I have said somewhere above here in response to one of Starbucks questions....
[/ QUOTE ]
apologies, i have just read back what i missed!
[ QUOTE ]
Acolyte i have yet to meet a pug that can run without making a strange noise when it tries to draw breath.
i think we have to accept that as a whole, mankind has messed a little too much with certain breeds.
you are right in that not all breeders are bad ones, in fact they are fairly few and far between thankfully, but it is going to take more than a few good breeders to try and rectify the mess thats been made in some breeds
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is exactly what I have said somewhere above here in response to one of Starbucks questions....
[/ QUOTE ]
apologies, i have just read back what i missed!
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your reply A, I wasn't having a go, it's just got me really angry!!!
That stupid woman about the bull dogs who said something along the line of "well they are fine normally, it's when they get excited they can't breath properly, they might pass out, but then they come round ok." I mean WTF???????
I wouldn't be suprised if there are a lot fewer peeps at Crufts next year!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I completely agree - dog showing people are beyond belief sometimes, which is why I dont want anything to do with it
Thanks for your reply A, I wasn't having a go, it's just got me really angry!!!
That stupid woman about the bull dogs who said something along the line of "well they are fine normally, it's when they get excited they can't breath properly, they might pass out, but then they come round ok." I mean WTF???????
I wouldn't be suprised if there are a lot fewer peeps at Crufts next year!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I completely agree - dog showing people are beyond belief sometimes, which is why I dont want anything to do with it
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
yes but if the problem with the breed doesnt show until later then how on earth are they supposed to know? i'm not saying people shouldnt take responsibilty for buying their dog but how are you supposed to tell between the two.
i agree that if you bought a dog with an obvious problem then yes that would be your fault. (not you personally - crap wording!)
i agree that if you bought a dog with an obvious problem then yes that would be your fault. (not you personally - crap wording!)
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I completely agree - dog showing people are beyond belief sometimes, which is why I dont want anything to do with it
[/ QUOTE ]
good for you!!
I completely agree - dog showing people are beyond belief sometimes, which is why I dont want anything to do with it
[/ QUOTE ]
good for you!!
joeanne
Well-Known Member
moomoo if i could get a potentially "dodgy" dog from a certain breed i would look into another breed suited to our needs and wants, you dont need to limit yourself to a certain breed if you are buying as with the intention of keeping as a family pet
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Was not being confrontational, that response was not up when I typed my original question or the last time I posted a remark.
[/ QUOTE ]
I interpreted the comment "why arent you defending them?" as being confrontational, hence my response. If you read all of my responses you will see that I have never, and would never, advocate the breeding of dogs to achieve the exagerated types which the Kennel Club appears to want to achieve now
Was not being confrontational, that response was not up when I typed my original question or the last time I posted a remark.
[/ QUOTE ]
I interpreted the comment "why arent you defending them?" as being confrontational, hence my response. If you read all of my responses you will see that I have never, and would never, advocate the breeding of dogs to achieve the exagerated types which the Kennel Club appears to want to achieve now