Aaaarrrgghhhh - Pedigree dogs programme....

[Shilasdair]

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I'd be worried about getting a dog from a dog home though - as I wouldn't be able to judge whether it was a 'good one' or not.
With horses, I know what I'm doing...but with dogs...no idea.
That's one of the reasons OH and I were thinking about pedigrees....

S

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I understand your fear. My first dog came from a dog's home, and he was quite aggressive in certain situations but I didn't have the heart to take him back. He really was the most difficult dog ever though I was in bits when he was PTS. However if you go via a smaller rescue, they will have the dog's history, and often they are fostered in private homes, so here is much more information about them. Would recommend his forum as a start point:

http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?act=idx

Please give a homeless dog a forever home

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Yes, that would be the problem - I have not, nor have my family ever got an animal that we didn't then keep the end. And I don't want 15 yrs of snarling aggressive howling predator in my house

And would the dog rehomers tell me truthfully, or would they be keen to palm their worst mutts off on us, lol?
Oh dear, I think I'll have to stick to horses and hamsters.
S

 

[Sooty]

PMSL! I totally misenterpreted that comment!

 

[jacks_mum]

And year after year fat horses win shows, even HOYS

 

[kirstyhen]

But what are the thousands of dogs needing homes? Mainly crossbreds, so aren't people allowing crossbreeds to breed just as irresponsible?
People would be up in arms if breeders stopped breeding purebreds, we would be losing our heritage, just as we are with shires, cleveland bays etc.
I know you were talking about pedigrees with health problems, but people irresponsible enough to breed unhealthy dogs are hardly going to be the types to think, oh there are lots of stray, Ill stop breeding!

 

[Laafet]

Well I suppose I could say the same about their racing reports but then others would not agree. We have always bought pedigree animals and as I said on the other thread my beautiful but deformed rescue burmilla cat is a result of hideous inbreeding. Our current ESS is perfect but a working type deemed too light for the show ring, he is perfect for us and touchwood healthy so we like him for not being heavy enough for the show ring. Out last dog, a Welsh Springer Spaniel rescue dog was so inbred it was untrue I believe a father -daughter is I remember rightly we would never have bought her from a breeder but rescued her from a cruel home, she had terrible conditions which our vet said come of which were genetic. She lived to 10 years, Mum had her put down as she started to fit like that Boxer and that was too much, our previous dog was a ESS x Collie he lived to 18.

 

[sade1986]

I agree that it was very biased against the KC. I always like to know both sides and have looked into breeding for some college work, so have some knowledge of both sides. As with everything there is good and bad, the same can be said about breeders but i don't think the KC are doing enough eventhough they have research programmes etc.. in place.

 

[Sooty]

Personally I would not advise getting a first dog from a dogs' home. Like most things in life, dog ownership is a learning curve, and it is much easier to start with a puppy. I have had a couple of dogs from a home, and one had to be pts due to his extreme aggression. It is not always a happy ending.

 

[Sooty]

The KC endorses mother/son mating and docking - it deserves bias against it!

 

[kirstyhen]

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PMSL! I totally misenterpreted that comment!

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I hope you didn't read up their backside instead of on!!!

We're good at this agreeing to disagree marlarky thing! We haven't even descended into personal insults

I was trying to think up my best ones too

 

[joeanne]

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Responsible breeders will not breed from dogs which have health issues, and will always find good homes for all of their stock which do not make the grade for showing purposes (i.e. 99% of them!)

As for the rest - well, as with indiscriminate breeders of any animal, they cannot be considered in the same way? I know that sounds like a cop-out, but there is nothing more I can say really - just wanted to make the point that you cannot consider that all dog breeders are irresponsible and uncaring as the BBC would like you to believe

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absolutely. a friend of mine went to see two gsd breeders. one tried to sell her a puppy based on colour (it was a blue), and the other wanted her to know that her dogs were hip scored, eye tested, and she had references and thankyou letters from people who had bought from her repeatedly (when they lost their old dog they would call her when ready for a new one).
guess which one she bought from!

 

[kirstyhen]

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The KC endorses mother/son mating and docking - it deserves bias against it!

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So does Gloucester!

 

[Sooty]

Oh I like to think we can have differing views without falling out!

I've been with my OH 20 years on that basis, only the insults are not so witheld...

 

[icestationzebra]

Completely agree Hen - the people that breed indescriminately, allow their bitch to be mated by any old Tom, Dick or Harry down the park and the breeders continuing to breed mutant dogs are all as bad as each other!

 

[Laafet]

Like I said I can see the biased point that is being made but A LAME DOG IS A LAME DOG! How can judges say 'oh yes that is to type and better than the version that is actually doing the job it is meant for'?

 

[Acolyte]

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Yes, but the point is that Crufts is (in the UK at least) the pinnacle of dog breeding achievement, and year after year winning dogs are deformed. The breed standard is being interpreted very differently from how (I assume) it was intended, and there are mutant freaks as a result. Some bulldogs cannot give birth naturally because of the oversized heads. If breeders want to make a living, they need to produce dogs people want, and people want what they see on tv and at Crufts. They want deformed flat faces, docked tails, oversized heads, twisted tails... This programme was long overdue, IMHO.

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Sooty I say again - these people very very rarely make a living from dog breeding, unless they are puppy farmers and the like who do not show dogs anyway.

And in the dog showing world Crufts is generally not the pinnacle of achievement - far more prestigious to win best in show at your breed championship show

 

[Coffee_Bean]

Was sickened by some of the things on that programme and me and my folks watched in horror. Culling rhodesian (sp) ridgebacks for not having a ridge which is actually a mild deformity anyway... sick. Some of those breeders are so bloody ignorant as well. And breeding from those CKCS with that really long named disease is wrong, the dog was clearly in absoloute agony.

My dog has epilepsy, shes a labrador. She is on tablets and has not fitted since having them (apart from one time when she ran off and ate a load of sweetcorn husks that got lodged down her intestines (7 to be precise) so she didn't eat anything for 48 hours, until she was operated on and didnt have the tablets...but thats a different story) But I think that if she was as bad as that boxer we would have had no choice but to p her ts.

 

[Sooty]

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The KC endorses mother/son mating and docking - it deserves bias against it!

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So does Gloucester!

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That made me LOL!

 

[Cop-Pop]

Speak to the guys at Many Tears - they are fabulous and most of their dogs are in foster homes so they have a good idea how they behave in a home environment

 

[Starbucks]

Jumping in a bit late here but I'm a bit slow so I'd never catch up!!

That really upset me!!!

I do not understand the mentality of some of those breeders.... so many just replied with "Well I think thats a load of rubbish!" Why do they care so much more about what it says in some stupid book than the health and comfort of there own dogs!!!!! SO WRONG!!!!!!

I don't really see how it can be compared to horse racing etc. fair enough some aren't fast enough to race, but they are healthy animals that can go on to do another job, and they don't suffer from extreme painful conditions brought on by breading to meet a set of rules.

It really confuses me. So if in a certain breed characteristic it says it should have a long back for example.... does that mean that the ones with the longest possible back is one that most fits that characteristic, even if that would prevent/hinder them doing the job they were set out to do?

 

[kirstyhen]

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allow their bitch to be mated by any old Tom, Dick or Harry down the park

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Are we still talking about dogs here!?

 

[Laafet]

I would have too Coffee_bean, our WSS fitted three times and that was enough. PTS it is better for the poor animal, atleast we have that choice for them.

 

[kirstyhen]

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So if in a certain breed characteristic it says it should have a long back for example.... does that mean that the ones with the longest possible back is one that most fits that characteristic, even if that would prevent/hinder them doing the job they were set out to do?

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Thats how a bad breeder/judge would interpret it, however a good breeder would still keep in sight what the dog was originally bred to do.

 

[icestationzebra]

Agree. My comments were aimed at those continuing to breed unhealthy animals whether it be for profit or in pursuit of a show dog....

 

[Sooty]

Oh okay - but they must do it for the money, if not to live on. My problem is with the KC, and has been for many years.

 

[Starbucks]

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People who show dogs breed litters purely to try and breed something which they consider will become an excellent example of the breed. Whether that is what you and I would consider to be a healthy happy dog is another matter They do not consider whether they are going to make a profit, or whether their top winning dog will become a succesful stud dog and therefore make them some money - they just care about whether they get a prize winning dog


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So they do it to get "a prize winning dog" so for there own glory basically. Is that any better than doing it for money??

 

[icestationzebra]

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allow their bitch to be mated by any old Tom, Dick or Harry down the park

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Are we still talking about dogs here!?

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I was, but to be honest I have been watching a bit of Jeremy Kyle recently so I KNOW it could quite easily be used to describle human behaviour too!!

Not mine I hasten to add

 

[joeanne]

sooty the k.c might play a small part, but the bigger fault has to lay with the person buying the dog for its looks. same old, same old, if there was no demand there would be no supply

 

[Acolyte]

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Oh okay - but they must do it for the money, if not to live on. My problem is with the KC, and has been for many years.

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I give up

I have known people who show and breed dogs for 38 years and not one of them has 'done it for the money'.....

 

[Sooty]

So why do dog advertised in the local paper cost £150 for a mutt, and a Pug costs £800?

 

[MooMoo]

For their own ridiculous gain... its so sad. More people need to have the courage and sense to stand away from the "correct" crowd and go with whats best for the dogs and the breed.

Thats not to say some havent already.