advice please - will a micklem help with rearing?

[beerecco]

Hi everyone, I'd be really grateful for advice.

We bought our first horse about 4 months ago for my three girls. She’s a 15.2 ISH, 8 years old, typical mare and can be rather determined about what she does and doesn't like to do, doesn’t like taking the contact. Completely different from when we bought her, but I think she had been ridden by a strong rider for about 8 weeks before being put on sale and had been licked into shape! Recently a friend who is very experienced has ridden her a couple of times, and I have been paying for schooling once or twice a week for the last few weeks too as she doesn’t step through enough so although the girls have been working on it, thought she would benefit from a bit of professional help.

We have had the dentist out, had her back checked, she's seen the farrier, and the vet etc. so those areas are all sorted. We've also put her on oestress as she can be mareish - not sure if it's making a difference but I figured there's no harm in carrying on!

She took a dislike to a large outdoor arena used for showjumping at the yard where we keep her, and my youngest rode her through it the first time but the second, could do nothing to persuade her from broncing and rearing (nothing too massive) in the corner, so we asked that she be schooled in there as the girls want to take part in the sj competitions. She was naughty for the instructor the first time but nothing too spectacular, but then the second time she took her in there, after a little while and out of the blue she started broncing then reared vertically twice. I’m sure this is straightforward for a competent rider and the instructor stayed on and carried on riding her, but it’s not necessarily something my kids would sit! Especially if they were unbalanced by the broncing. The instructor said she thought it was something the mare had done before as she said she seemed surprised she’d sat through it.

We thought it was just in that arena that she misbehaved, but then about a week later my friend rode her in a different manege where she’d always been fine before apart from occasional spooks when the horses were galloping in the next field which were nothing the girls couldn’t cope with. She was working well and seemed really calm and relaxed, through a warmup then schooling in walk and trot, and then 15/20 mins in and out of the blue she started bucking, then reared vertically again. My friend has been riding all her life and brought her own horses on, so she sat it, ignored it, and carried on with the schooling and warm down for another fifteen minutes but it’s got me a bit concerned as there was no warning - she seemed utterly relaxed before and after. There was no trigger either - she was just trotting round a 20 metre circle in the middle of the school. The friend who was riding her said she thought it was when she finally accepted the contact, like an avoidance measure? So I’m thinking maybe a Micklem bridle would help if it’s about the sensation of the contact?

All this happened just before the Easter holidays and we’ve been away for a week since then, so the kids haven’t had chance to ride since. She was schooled twice when we were away and was a bit nappy outdoors but was fine in the indoor. The kids were planning to lunge her yesterday but I’ve come back to find both back hooves very cracked - so waiting for the Farrier to have a look at her now :-/

I’d be really grateful for any advice on this issue. I know the kids will only improve through being challenged but at the same time, I don’t want the challenges to be so big that they are completely put off riding. Would love to find a magic solution.... so is a Micklem worth trying?

Would be very grateful for any advice! Thanks.

 

[oldie48]

I am sure you will get several replies from much more experienced people than me but tbh she doesn't sound like a suitable first horse. I don't know how old your daughters are or how long they have been riding but I would not have wanted my daughter on a horse that rears vertical and broncs nor would I wish to ride it myself. A first horse IMHO should be fairly straightforward and forgiving and should build confidence not destroy it, sorry I can't be a bit more positive.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Micklem bridles suit some horses very well, some horses go just the same as in a normal bridle, and some horses hate them.

How do you share the riding out amongst your three daughters?

 

[Dawny]

It depends really on your daughters. Some horses will go better in them and some won't, but I would say it won't make much difference if the horse itself isn't suitable. If they are competent and confident riders then you may find a huge improvement however if they are middling somewhere between beginner and novice then it most likely won't matter.
If they are the right riders for the horse then I'd ask the person who's schooling if they think it would work and then give it a go.
If not, I'd get a different horse. She sounds lovely but there's no shame in swapping out onto something more user friendly especially if they are younger children.

 

[Equi]

I would wonder why she hates contact so much. There is more going on than just not liking the contact. A normal horse won't react so violently to contact they disprove of. I know you said all the checks were done but by whom? Were teeth etc done by EDT or vet? What bridle/bit is she in now? What are the professionals opinions on why shes doing this?

 

[beerecco]

I am sure you will get several replies from much more experienced people than me but tbh she doesn't sound like a suitable first horse. I don't know how old your daughters are or how long they have been riding but I would not have wanted my daughter on a horse that rears vertical and broncs nor would I wish to ride it myself. A first horse IMHO should be fairly straightforward and forgiving and should build confidence not destroy it, sorry I can't be a bit more positive.

Thanks for getting in touch - I am feeling a bit like that myself but wondering how much of it is my inexperience and whether that's something all horses would do - having said that, they have ridden friends' horses and had a couple of loans as well as the riding school and although they've been a bit naughty from time to time, nothing like this.

 

[beerecco]

I would wonder why she hates contact so much. There is more going on than just not liking the contact. A normal horse won't react so violently to contact they disprove of. I know you said all the checks were done but by whom? Were teeth etc done by EDT or vet? What bridle/bit is she in now? What are the professionals opinions on why shes doing this?

Thanks for getting back to me. She had the teeth done by an equine dentist, back checked by Richard Maxwell, plus she had a 5 stage vetting in December. She is not always reactive and much of the time she is lovely, especially in the fully enclosed school where I think she feels safest, sometimes she is ok or just a bit grumpy - tail swishes and some small bucks, nothing that's an issue. At the moment she is in a loose ring snaffle with a very plain bridle, not sure what kind but it's just a plain one with a normal noseband, no flash or anything like that. Everyone I've spoken to has thought she is trying to get out of working properly because it's difficult but at the same time, as you say, it seems like an extreme reaction. We thought it might be discomfort at first hence all the checks, and I'm not an expert, but my feeling is she doesn't want to do what she doesn't feel like and is seeing if she can get out of it. She's been difficult from time to time with my girls but it has never been as extreme so I wondered if they are not pushing her as hard. The time when I was watching my friend ride, she was schooling very gently but consistently in walk and trot and getting her to soften and work into a shape. Before and after she was absolutely fine.

 

[beerecco]

It depends really on your daughters. Some horses will go better in them and some won't, but I would say it won't make much difference if the horse itself isn't suitable. If they are competent and confident riders then you may find a huge improvement however if they are middling somewhere between beginner and novice then it most likely won't matter.
If they are the right riders for the horse then I'd ask the person who's schooling if they think it would work and then give it a go.
If not, I'd get a different horse. She sounds lovely but there's no shame in swapping out onto something more user friendly especially if they are younger children.

Thanks very much for your advice. They're not that young - 13 and 15 (the 17 year old has stopped riding at the moment because of upcoming exams) but as you can tell we're not a horsey family - when I wanted riding lessons my parents thought it was too dangerous so I never got on a horse until I was 39! The girls didn't ride until they were older (the youngest was 8 or 9 I think, middle one 10) and while one of them sees every exciting thing that happens as something that makes her a better rider and wants to make sure I have videoed it so she can show her friends, the other has had confidence issues in the past and stopped riding for a while, she still loves the horse, but she has expressed a concern that she's not experienced in sitting that kind of thing and wonders if the horse is too advanced for us. Much as I'd love just to get another, finances don't stretch to a second horse for her so we need it to work for both (and the oldest when she's finished her exams).

Re the micklem bridles - I've found that our local farm shop has an arrangement where you can rent them for a fortnight and see if they work. The lady schooling her hasn't used a micklem but I think she will hopefully give it a go. Thanks again.

 

[twiggy2]

Rearing, bucking and bronking are hard work too.
A horse that rears vertical is putting itself ( and the rider) at risk, horses won't do that without good reason. Maybe the horse is avoiding pain when it carries itself in a certain way but it won't be doing it just to be naughty/difficult.
I have worked with horses for over 30 yrs and I used to get on and ride anything through anything, these days I am of the opinion if a horse wants me off it is not ready for me to get on.
Problems need sorting from the floor or the riders are at increased risk of injury.
Horses that go vertical can over balance and land on the rider causing severe injury, a less experienced rider is more likely to unbalance the horse so is at more risk of injury.
Did you have bloods taken at the time of vetting?
I would return the horse or sue for not fit for purpose and my kids would not be getting on it again.

 

[beerecco]

Micklem bridles suit some horses very well, some horses go just the same as in a normal bridle, and some horses hate them.

How do you share the riding out amongst your three daughters?

OK - thank you, that is really helpful. I think the girls have only ridden in one once which was a TB who we tried and would have bought except the instructor said no because of foot issues as he'd been through race training (he was a sweetie, kind of wish we had gone ahead anyway but hey ho!) and the girl who owned him said it had really helped. I think I said in a reply to someone else that the local farm shop has an arrangement where you can try before you buy and only pay a small fee if it doesn't work, so I guess it's worth a try.

At the moment, one is revising for her AS exams so she is not really doing anything else, so it's only the younger two. In theory we were going to have a rota but in practice, the girls have been having a private lesson each on her in the week and when we can, fitting in some practice in one of the indoor maneges but that can be difficult as the yard is at a riding school so they have both been complaining that they're riding less than before we had a horse....

 

[be positive]

Thanks for getting back to me. She had the teeth done by an equine dentist, back checked by Richard Maxwell, plus she had a 5 stage vetting in December. She is not always reactive and much of the time she is lovely, especially in the fully enclosed school where I think she feels safest, sometimes she is ok or just a bit grumpy - tail swishes and some small bucks, nothing that's an issue. At the moment she is in a loose ring snaffle with a very plain bridle, not sure what kind but it's just a plain one with a normal noseband, no flash or anything like that. Everyone I've spoken to has thought she is trying to get out of working properly because it's difficult but at the same time, as you say, it seems like an extreme reaction. We thought it might be discomfort at first hence all the checks, and I'm not an expert, but my feeling is she doesn't want to do what she doesn't feel like and is seeing if she can get out of it. She's been difficult from time to time with my girls but it has never been as extreme so I wondered if they are not pushing her as hard. The time when I was watching my friend ride, she was schooling very gently but consistently in walk and trot and getting her to soften and work into a shape. Before and after she was absolutely fine.

Advising on issues such as this is not easy over a forum but my gut instinct based on my many years of experience is that you have bought a "problem" horse that should not have been sold to you in the first place, 8 weeks schooling to prepare an 8 year old for sale that is then sold as a first horse sounds suspicious to me, no sensible, well educated, problem free 8 year old should require that long to prepare for sale unless it was to try and iron out issues, I expect to get something straightforward ready to sell within a couple of weeks even if it is not very fit it should only need a little work to be ready to show the basic things expected of a first horse.
I did one in a week recently, he had no real issues but had become a bit stuffy, looked scruffy and only had 3 shoes on, shoes done Monday, trimmed up, ridden out for a hack, a bit of work the rest of the week, bathed, shown on Sat, went to new home on Sun, he was quick as it was word of mouth and he had lived here for some time so I knew he was genuine just being a bit cheeky with his loaner.

Going back to your issues, rearing is a serious vice, it may well be pain related but whatever the reason there is every likelyhood this is longstanding and is not going to be easy to resolve and certainly is not a horse I would let children ride, "normal" horses do not go vertical to get out of working properly unless they are really provoked by poor riding and bad hands, assuming this is not the case you need professionals involved, vet to fully examine, xray back and anything else that is suspect, then a really good trainer if nothing shows up, Richard Maxwell would be a good option to get you started, but I expect there is a physical problem and that it may be hard to get to the bottom of it.
Have you tried contacting the old owners for their advice or the trainer who schooled her, they will probably deny all knowledge of her rearing before but it could be worth a few calls.

 

[beerecco]

Rearing, bucking and bronking are hard work too.
A horse that rears vertical is putting itself ( and the rider) at risk, horses won't do that without good reason. Maybe the horse is avoiding pain when it carries itself in a certain way but it won't be doing it just to be naughty/difficult.
I have worked with horses for over 30 yrs and I used to get on and ride anything through anything, these days I am of the opinion if a horse wants me off it is not ready for me to get on.
Problems need sorting from the floor or the riders are at increased risk of injury.
Horses that go vertical can over balance and land on the rider causing severe injury, a less experienced rider is more likely to unbalance the horse so is at more risk of injury.
Did you have bloods taken at the time of vetting?
I would return the horse or sue for not fit for purpose and my kids would not be getting on it again.

OK - thank you. Yes, we did have bloods but it was more than three months ago that we had the vetting, so I am not sure how long they keep them?

My kids are the most precious thing in the world to me so it does worry me! At the same time I"m just worrying about overreacting as I'm not massively experienced.

I really appreciate your reply in light of all your experience, thanks.

 

[beerecco]

Advising on issues such as this is not easy over a forum but my gut instinct based on my many years of experience is that you have bought a "problem" horse that should not have been sold to you in the first place, 8 weeks schooling to prepare an 8 year old for sale that is then sold as a first horse sounds suspicious to me, no sensible, well educated, problem free 8 year old should require that long to prepare for sale unless it was to try and iron out issues, I expect to get something straightforward ready to sell within a couple of weeks even if it is not very fit it should only need a little work to be ready to show the basic things expected of a first horse.
I did one in a week recently, he had no real issues but had become a bit stuffy, looked scruffy and only had 3 shoes on, shoes done Monday, trimmed up, ridden out for a hack, a bit of work the rest of the week, bathed, shown on Sat, went to new home on Sun, he was quick as it was word of mouth and he had lived here for some time so I knew he was genuine just being a bit cheeky with his loaner.

Going back to your issues, rearing is a serious vice, it may well be pain related but whatever the reason there is every likelyhood this is longstanding and is not going to be easy to resolve and certainly is not a horse I would let children ride, "normal" horses do not go vertical to get out of working properly unless they are really provoked by poor riding and bad hands, assuming this is not the case you need professionals involved, vet to fully examine, xray back and anything else that is suspect, then a really good trainer if nothing shows up, Richard Maxwell would be a good option to get you started, but I expect there is a physical problem and that it may be hard to get to the bottom of it.
Have you tried contacting the old owners for their advice or the trainer who schooled her, they will probably deny all knowledge of her rearing before but it could be worth a few calls.

Thanks for your reply. I'm sure it must be hard to visualise without seeing what happened. Wish I had been filming but it was so out of the blue, I never expected anything.

Re the schooling before sale, the lady said she'd had her at the yard for 8 weeks to get to know her before advertising, so my comment about the 8 weeks is based on that. I didn't meet the previous owner until she dropped her off. We bought the horse within about 48 hours of her being advertised as the girls all loved her - we got their instructor out and she thought she was fine too, so we arranged a vetting there and then. In hindsight the lady selling did put a lot of pressure on us in that the vetting had to be delayed then the report took a few days to go through and she kept texting me to say someone else wanted to come and see the horse and she would have to let her come out, the girls were desperate to go ahead and putting a lot of pressure on me. and I'd forked out for a vetting as well so I felt pretty pressured on all sides. Apparently she rang the vets numerous times and was really unpleasant with the receptionists too. So maybe that should have rung alarm bells, but at the same time she is someone who was known to the staff at the yard where we keep the horse and they said she was straightforward.

I contacted the old owner a few times to ask about things, and she said nothing much had never happened before, I hate to be negative but I do feel that we haven't been told the full story about her past as when she dropped the horse off she said she'd like to follow her progress on facebook so we are now friends on facebook and soon after we got the horse she liked a post from the previous year with a photo of their old pony saying 'everything went tits-up when we got the new horse', she'd also replied to someone that the horse we bought was out on loan in Shropshire, but she never mentioned it to me directly. The post has now been deleted after I asked about it. At the same time, I am sure she genuinely loved the horse as she was really upset to drop her off and I think she'd been vetting us on FB to see if we were suitable to take on the horse they'd owned for three years whereas if she really was a complete nightmare maybe she would just have been glad to see the back of her?

We got Richard Maxwell to have a look at her and he said there were no issues, just released the tension in her neck - the man is like a magician, it was so interesting to watch!

Pretty much every horse we tried the owners commented on what soft hands the girls had so I don't think it is that - and I know that the times she has done it, it's been with very experienced riders.

Anyway many thanks for your advice.

 

[be positive]

I still think 8 weeks is a long while to "get to know" a horse you are selling, I have had a lot in to sell and I know I do a good deal for my clients I have them for 1 week to assess if I don't know enough by then to know whether or not I want to sell it from my yard I will send them back, at £150 per week it soon adds up so my assessments are short and sharp and I rarely get it wrong, after the first week I start to think about the ad, the target market and usually take another 2 weeks to get ready, most are on the market within 3 weeks although there is no guarantee they will sell quickly if they are genuine I expect them gone within a month or so otherwise the livery starts to become unrealistic.

I wonder why the vetting was delayed, running the bloods could be worthwhile, they should be held for 6 months.

If they loved her so much why were they selling? people can be good at putting on an act and they could still have loved her even if she was a nightmare to ride, tough problem for you to have as your first horse but sadly all too frequent.

 

[beerecco]

Thanks for getting back to me. It was delayed because the vet had to stay out with a horse with colic - we used the one recommended by our yard who we'd had for our previous vetting (the lovely horse who sadly failed it when we had her on trial - should have kept her anyway!). He's very thorough and I really respect his opinion, and he said the horse was straightforward and should be really good for us. The lady selling has another horse and said she only used the one we now have for hacking, she is actually very nappy and difficult to hack alone so she said she was selling as her daughter had given up riding. With hindsight probably because the horse had issues but at the time the lady selling her said she'd got into boys and fashion which is also something that happens to teenage girls I know!

 

[be positive]

Something else to throw into the mix the last tricky Irish mare I had here that behaved in a similar way to yours I now think may have been suffering from PSSM, at the time I knew nothing about the condition so just got on with "sorting" her out which entailed no feed, full time turnout and working hard every day, she improved within a week on that regime which I now know is helpful for horses that suffer from the condition.
If you search through the forum or online you will find loads of info but it is still something that is not widely picked up on even by vets, worth thinking about as it could fit in with her behaviour, her inconsistent way of going and can be very subtle until they can't cope any more, there is nearly always a reason otherwise nice horses behave badly at times it is finding that reason and fixing it that is so tricky.

 

[beerecco]

OK, that is interesting, thank you. I just did a quick google. In general I'd say once she's warmed up and had a canter she moves very freely, she tends to be a little choppy before that but I wouldn't have said she was too tight in her muscles. At the same time I have wondered if restricted turnout might be part of the problem. The yard where we keep her has fantastic fields but keeps them that way by really restricting turnout if it's at all wet or muddy so over winter while it's been wet, it's been as little as an hour every other day or less sometimes. It's a lot better now but there is never an option for 24 hour turnout at this yard, overnight in the middle of the summer is the longest. When we tried her she'd been out all day the first time and out overnight the second when we went first thing in the morning (despite it being the middle of winter and way below zero - she is evidently quite a hardy beast). Didn't see any sign of restricted rations though as she had a massive pile of hay stuffed with carrots!

 

[twiggy2]

OK - thank you. Yes, we did have bloods but it was more than three months ago that we had the vetting, so I am not sure how long they keep them?

My kids are the most precious thing in the world to me so it does worry me! At the same time I"m just worrying about overreacting as I'm not massively experienced.

I really appreciate your reply in light of all your experience, thanks.

The vets that vetted my horse told me they keep them 6 months

 

[scats]

You could try a Micklem, certainly no harm in giving it a go if your instructor or whoever schools for you is willing to give it a go, but personally I would not want to put my children on a horse who has now reared vertically under saddle several times.

God forbid that horse loses its balance and goes over backwards with one of your girls on it... is it really worth it?

 

[beerecco]

You could try a Micklem, certainly no harm in giving it a go if your instructor or whoever schools for you is willing to give it a go, but personally I would not want to put my children on a horse who has now reared vertically under saddle several times.

God forbid that horse loses its balance and goes over backwards with one of your girls on it... is it really worth it?

Many thanks for the advice. I am definitely uncertain about whether I want them to get on her again and if I could go back in time certainly wouldn't have bought her! I'll try and talk to their instructor who has been away on holiday.

 

[beerecco]

Hello again everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all the replies which has given me plenty to think about.

I've been mulling it over and talking to other people at the yard and it's made me wonder if I've painted her as more difficult than she is, as most of the time she is good or a bit mareish, having said that I am aware that now she has reared badly twice it looks like it could be an established behaviour which might mean she needs a stronger, more experienced rider than my girls. And as a few of you have said, the rearing could be very dangerous, but when I mentioned it to one of our neighbours at the yard yesterday she seemed to think it was par for the course and we shouldn't be put off (although that didn't completely persuade me as her daughter was saying another friend's horse that she rides at the yard does it regularly and it does feel like he might overbalance - I'd be terrified to let my girls ride something like that! But she is a very good rider used to more challenging horses...)

At the same time, the girls love her and she is really good on the ground, to catch, in the stable, to groom, for the dentist, in the wash room, leading etc. A friend has offered to take her away for 4-6 weeks and keep her at home where she has a couple of horses and a spare stable, and work with her every day to see what she can do. I'm tempted but the kids are horrified at the idea! So as you can see, I am still confused!

Just wanted to thank everyone who's got in touch for all the advice.

 

[Morgan123]

Don't think I have too much to add but just wanted to say that you sound like you've been very sensible about all this! It would be really tricky for anyone to think about, let alone with a first horse meant for their kids, but it's nice to hear of someone taking the time to get professional help and checks done rather than freaking out.

If it was me I think I'd keep going with the pro help on this issue, it sounds like you've got a bit of an idea of when it's happening, and I'd probably try and work out what the horse thinks is FUN (hacking? XC?) and if she's safe doing that, I'd do a lot of that with the kids on her, and have the professionals school her in the meanwhile/kids with instructor, and see how it goes. You sound like you're being as sensible as it's possible to be in this situation. Fingers crossed for you! Do keep us updated.

Oh just another quick thought, if it's the contact, have you thought about trying bitless? Sometimes it's just nice to mix things up, but obviously depends on the horse infront of you so that might be a completely useless thought. Some horses much prefer it.

Good luck!

 

[beerecco]

Thanks for your suggestions Just got back from the yard where she is being a complete moody madam today and stamping, turning round in circles and tossing her head about while I was trying to groom her and put her rug on - think she is coming into season again - so I take it back about her being perfect in the stable ;-)

It's actually hard to know what she enjoys in her work, she doesn't seem too keen to hack, will do it ok in a group but is very nappy on her own. Haven't tried her yet xc - she does seem to enjoy jumping more than anything else and focuses more. Lessons are definitely helpful and after the schooling, the kids have been able to see a difference in getting her to soften a lot quicker. I don't want to just give up on her but then if it's starting to put one of them off riding, and we can't afford to get a second horse, need to think about the right thing to do for everyone.

I'm going to have a chat with their instructor who is around over the next few days and see what she thinks as well, especially about the rearing.

And somehow, the kids have managed to persuade me to buy the red freejump stirrups they've always wanted as a safety measure..... so they're delighted.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have had 14 mares over the years, some of them have been quite quirky but they didn't rear. It is definitely NOT par for the course!

I wouldn't be surprised to find that your mare is in pain somewhere but the lack of turnout will certainly not be helping. Are you feeding her anything except hay? Because if so, take her off it. Horses fed on haylage can react badly and ma ny mares can't tolerate alfalfa.
She doesn't sound like a first horse for teenagers, or indeed an yone but if your bloods come back ok, you need to look at what is causing her to behave like this now. I would also get a 2nd opinion on all the checvks you have already had done.

 

[Kat]

Only an hour turnout every other day? That would drive my lovely genuine mare nuts, I could not stay on a yard that restricted turnout that much. It may not fix things but to give the horse a chance you need to give her a regular routine (the same every day) and several hours of turnout each day.

What is she being fed and how much work is she getting?

 

[beerecco]

Only an hour turnout every other day? That would drive my lovely genuine mare nuts, I could not stay on a yard that restricted turnout that much. It may not fix things but to give the horse a chance you need to give her a regular routine (the same every day) and several hours of turnout each day.

What is she being fed and how much work is she getting?

Thanks for getting back to me. The turnout is much more now, 5 hours plus every day - it only gets that limited when the ground is very bad and there's lots of standing water on the fields - the weather has been much better recently.

She has not had much work at all in the last couple of weeks as we've been away and the person who was schooling for us has hurt her knee so couldn't get her boots on. The episodes when she reared badly happened when she was in more work and regular turnout of 5 hours daily.

Re feed, she is on I think 10kg hay spread over three nets (small one at breakfast, one at lunch if she is in but not if she's out, and a big night one) and a handful of chaff to carry her oestress in the morning and because she gets upset if the other horses in the block get feed and she doesn't at teatime.

When she's been on restricted turnout, although she can be very forward and choppy when she first starts working for 5-10 mins, once she's had a stretch and a canter she tends to work fine.

 

[beerecco]

I have had 14 mares over the years, some of them have been quite quirky but they didn't rear. It is definitely NOT par for the course!

Thank you - I have so much to learn with horses, and am learning all the time and glad it's not 'normal' and something we will have to expect and learn to deal with with any horse we get.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that your mare is in pain somewhere but the lack of turnout will certainly not be helping. Are you feeding her anything except hay? Because if so, take her off it. Horses fed on haylage can react badly and ma ny mares can't tolerate alfalfa.
She doesn't sound like a first horse for teenagers, or indeed an yone but if your bloods come back ok, you need to look at what is causing her to behave like this now. I would also get a 2nd opinion on all the checvks you have already had done.

The turnout is a lot more now, 5 hours daily, the 1 hour every other day is just when the fields look like swimming pools!

Re feed, I do think the chaff she is on (only about 2 handfuls a day) contains alfalfa, will check, and she's on 3 haynets daily if in or two if out. She doesn't have any hard feed and I had her weighed by a Dengie rep recently who recommended we also put her on a general vitamin and mineral supplement which I'm hopefully going to buy today.

Having seen her rear, I do feel that it's to do with her not liking the situation, not pain. The first time she did it with my youngest (a long way off vertical thankfully but the same pattern, suddenly broncing and then rearing) she was in the big outdoor and she rode her through it and carried on with the lesson.

She had her next lesson in there to try to get her more used to it and despite her best efforts she's not got the leg muscles of an adult and wasn't strong enough to ride her out of the corner and the instructor had to lead her. With hindsight maybe she could have opened the rein to one side and tried to get her to go like that but she was backed into the corner and the horse was starting to rear.

I suppose that gave the horse the message that she had got her own way as they went into the indoor and carried on the lesson in there and she was perfectly behaved. My daughter wants to do the pony club group on her which takes place in the big ourdoor so we asked for her to be schooled out there to get her used to it and this was the first place she reared so massively - I think because she doesn't like it out there and as it was an experienced rider schooling her, she sat through the rearing and carried on - she's been schooled in there since and was only nappy and schooled in the indoor, behaved perfectly.

This is what makes me think that if the girls were stronger riders, they could probably ride through it and get a lot out of the horse, but as she is so determined and intelligent, she will probably try it on with them and I am starting to feel that they need a horse which is a bit more co-operative then they can improve their balance and strength.

We had a lovely horse on trial who very sadly failed the vetting on flexion, she was much older and more experienced and had done sj and a bit of eventing in pony club, the girl selling was going to university and they were a lovely family. When we had her on trial we had the most wonderful two weeks with her: the kids could just ride her round the farm ride, practice jumping bareback, hack out with friends, splash through the river etc - she was really chilled and would canter over a row of logs then come back to trot at the end not get really excited. I still think we should have kept her despite the vetting :-(

When we bought our current horse I imagined from what the seller said that she would be the same. I know that persevering with the current one might make them into better riders but I think maybe she is more of a second or third horse.

Anyway sorry for the long response and thank you for your advice.

 

[oldie48]

As already said, "rearing is not par for the course" we've had many horses and ponies over the years and we only had one that reared,a youngster that napped and would put in a rear if prevented from whipping round, my daughter sorted that very quickly but she had brought on youngsters before and basically the horse had a very good temperament. The more you write about this mare, the more sure I become that this horse is not a suitable horse for three teenagers as their first horse, one of your daughters is already losing confidence and it sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I am sorry to be so blunt but your daughters are precious. In reply to your enquiry about the Micklem, I use one on my horse and it suits him better than a conventional bridle but I don't think it would stop your mare from rearing or bucking.

 

[frannieuk]

Thanks for your suggestions Just got back from the yard where she is being a complete moody madam today and stamping, turning round in circles and tossing her head about while I was trying to groom her and put her rug on - think she is coming into season again - so I take it back about her being perfect in the stable ;-)

It's actually hard to know what she enjoys in her work, she doesn't seem too keen to hack, will do it ok in a group but is very nappy on her own. Haven't tried her yet xc - she does seem to enjoy jumping more than anything else and focuses more. Lessons are definitely helpful and after the schooling, the kids have been able to see a difference in getting her to soften a lot quicker. I don't want to just give up on her but then if it's starting to put one of them off riding, and we can't afford to get a second horse, need to think about the right thing to do for everyone.

I'm going to have a chat with their instructor who is around over the next few days and see what she thinks as well, especially about the rearing.

And somehow, the kids have managed to persuade me to buy the red freejump stirrups they've always wanted as a safety measure..... so they're delighted.

Just something you could try - I have a mare who exhibited very similar symptoms and, suspecting ulcers, I changed her diet to Alfa A, Topspec Ulsakind and Protexin Acid Ease. Within a week I had a different horse who was happy to be brushed and fiddled about with in the stable, and the rearing and evasion issues I had in the school vanished overnight. It's worth a try if nothing else!

 

[ester]

I don't think you have made her sound worse than she is, rearing and bronking are not 'just what horses do'.

There are a couple of possibilities here, 1) the horse has always had this 'issue' which may be physical or mental and the seller had either stopped the behaviour with strong riding or medication prior to sale, thought they had sorted it and after some time it reared it's head again to you.
2) this is new behaviour and is linked either to the management of the mare or she is in pain from something new.

The violence of the reaction 'out of nowhere' makes me think it is likely something hurts.

I would proceed by getting the vet out and arrranging for your pro rider to be there at the same time so they can discuss what has been occurring together. Depending on whether you intend to keep the mare regardless or potentially want to challenged the seller about whether she is fit for purpose I would also discuss with the vet whether they would advise to test the bloods from the vetting at this point. They aren't cheap to test but it can be done in stages, ie they can do an initial screen and then go more into specifics if a definitive report is required.
I would absolutely not be allowing any teenagers to ride this horse as it stands.