Dressage AES now actively using PRE's to improve WB breeding and rideability.

shortstuff99

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 September 2008
Messages
3,490
Location
Currently Cambridgeshire! (or where ever I fancy)!
But the genes in that horse look entirely PRE to me, so I don't see the point of crossing if you're going to love the ones that pick up the PRE.
.
Luso 🤣. I am surprised that the OC does it as they are traditionally bull fighting bred.

It's a weird one though because they have guarded the Luso and PRE studbooks so zealously to suddenly change to what? Gain more money? Iberians sold for good money anyway.

One of mine is a PRE x TB and she is awesome but waaay hotter then the pure PREs but a warmblood cross might be alright.
 

Cortez

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 January 2009
Messages
10,920
Location
Ireland
I used to breed WB's, I now only have PRE's. I wouldn't dream of combining them. If I wanted a dressage horse, I'd get a WB. If I wanted a quiet, easy going "forgiving" amateur's horse I certainly wouldn't get a PRE! I have seen and ridden various Iberian crosses (mostly Tresangres - Pre X TB X Arab = hotter than a hot thing), and I'd rather have a PRE.
 

DabDab

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 May 2013
Messages
10,356
I have one (PRE stallion on sj-bred Hannovarian mare). I'll let him know that he is trendy now so he had better buck his ideas up and get being useful for something :p

He is very beautiful, gets compliments wherever he goes. And standing around looking beautiful is about as useful as he gets 😂. No, I'm kidding, he's a wonderful horse who I love dearly. He's not a nice, easy amateur's competition horse though - he has the temperament of a PRE without the brains and PRE way of moving in a great hulking warmblood frame. He's a wonderful hacking and xc horse, who is absolutely hilarious, and if you just want to bimble then he's anybody's ride....but not ideal hobby competition horse material.

I can think of much better crosses to make with a PRE
 

Cortez

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 January 2009
Messages
10,920
Location
Ireland
The best PRE crosses I've seen & ridden have been on Connemara mares. I've seen a couple of Welsh D crosses too, that looked and moved well. The Warlander cross (PRE X Friesian) is amazing, but not as a sportshorse - I've had them for jousting and film work.
 

DabDab

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 May 2013
Messages
10,356
Oohh, I'd like to meet a Connie X PRE. A friend of my Aunt's has a Welsh D X PRE that I have met and had a sit on and that one is certainly a beautiful ride, and the owner has done an immaculate job of training it despite just being an average one-horse amateur, so I assume that it must have always been fairly biddable.
 

Barlow

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 March 2012
Messages
615
Luso 🤣. I am surprised that the OC does it as they are traditionally bull fighting bred.

It's a weird one though because they have guarded the Luso and PRE studbooks so zealously to suddenly change to what? Gain more money? Iberians sold for good money anyway.

One of mine is a PRE x TB and she is awesome but waaay hotter then the pure PREs but a warmblood cross might be alright.
OC is doing it for political reasons going back to an old dispute with the breed society. The M horse is majority warmblood, minority PSL. The first PSL x Totilas crosses I saw at OC’s weren’t great but this second generation has improved.
 

CanteringCarrot

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 April 2018
Messages
1,391
Location
Germany
I'm not sure how much you'd have to pay me to own a PRE x WB or Luso x WB. Not interested. I switched from WB's to Iberians for a reason.

I would be interested in a PRE Connemara cross though. I love both breeds as individuals and could deal with a cross. I've not seen one yet, in person.
 

tallyho!

202nooooooo!
Joined
8 July 2010
Messages
14,592
The lusitano breeders have got very into this cross and there are some very nice ones by the Massa and Ortigao Costa stud.
Well my question here is a concerned one really. Whilst some become very nice crosses, why not all of them? What happens to those that don’t make the cut? Why didn’t they?
 

shortstuff99

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 September 2008
Messages
3,490
Location
Currently Cambridgeshire! (or where ever I fancy)!
Well my question here is a concerned one really. Whilst some become very nice crosses, why not all of them? What happens to those that don’t make the cut? Why didn’t they?
I don't know if they have any that come out 'bad' or 'wrong', or at least no more then when they are breeding purebreds.
 

CanteringCarrot

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 April 2018
Messages
1,391
Location
Germany
With crossbreeds, there are indeed ones that come out not as desired. With purebreds too, but I'm not sure which one has a higher rate. I would think crossbreeding to be a bit more of an unstable result, but that's just an assumption.

https://www.spanishhorsebreedersuk.co.uk/popular-partbreds.html#iwb

There is a list of common crosses. I forgot about the Spanish Norman, I did know one that was quite the noble looking fella. Friends OH has a wonderful Azteca, great all arounder. Would also be intrigued about the Morgan cross, they're usually hardy intelligent little horses too.

KWPN also has a program that launched a few years ago using PRE and PSL horses to diversify breeding amongst Dutch Warmbloods. I haven't followed up on that though.
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
34,623
I'm not sure how much you'd have to pay me to own a PRE x WB or Luso x WB. Not interested. I switched from WB's to Iberians for a reason.

I would be interested in a PRE Connemara cross though. I love both breeds as individuals and could deal with a cross. I've not seen one yet, in person.

Ah but they already used the Spanish genes to create/improve the Connie since a long time ago, 1600s I think :)

Lots of Connie heads look very PRE.
 

Barlow

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 March 2012
Messages
615
KWPN also has a program that launched a few years ago using PRE and PSL horses to diversify breeding amongst Dutch Warmbloods. I haven't followed up on that though.
I know that Dragao was accepted into the Oldenburg studbook, my friend has a PSL stallion that has sired a lovely filly out of a warmblood mare that has pink papers after meeting the Oldenburg inspectors last year.

Is it any different to the PREs coming into the PSL book several generations ago? I can see both sides and maybe I’m old fashioned but generally I’d take a purebred over a partbred any day of the week, but of course every horse is an individual and a quality partbred will trump a poor purebred example.
 

oldie48

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 April 2013
Messages
6,207
Location
South Worcestershire
Oh I do love a bit of stereotyping on a Saturday morning! WBs come in all shapes and sizes, some are hot and some are not, some are money pits, some are not, some move extravagantly, some really don't and it's the same with PREs and pretty much any other breed/ cross breed/half breed. I suspect the thought of adding PREs into the mix is more about trying to breed something that the elderly/more novice rider can sit to. Lots of people I know have gone Spanish as their hips have disintegrated, trouble is some of them are scarily hot (and some are not). A good cross is one that produces a rideable horse with good conformation and a nice temperament, I honestly couldn't give a damn what breeds they are or what stud book have registered them as long as they do the job and look nice, sorry but I'm a bit choosy about looks as I spend a lot of time looking at them (especially ATM).
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
21,900
Oh I do love a bit of stereotyping on a Saturday morning! WBs come in all shapes and sizes, some are hot and some are not, some are money pits, some are not, some move extravagantly, some really don't and it's the same with PREs and pretty much any other breed/ cross breed/half breed. I suspect the thought of adding PREs into the mix is more about trying to breed something that the elderly/more novice rider can sit to. Lots of people I know have gone Spanish as their hips have disintegrated, trouble is some of them are scarily hot (and some are not). A good cross is one that produces a rideable horse with good conformation and a nice temperament, I honestly couldn't give a damn what breeds they are or what stud book have registered them as long as they do the job and look nice, sorry but I'm a bit choosy about looks as I spend a lot of time looking at them (especially ATM).
Echo this.
My WB is very different to your WB, I expect the one I've bred will be different again,as her sire is a bit of a different stamp.

My few years in the iberian world showed a similar huge variety in the PREs and PSLs, some hot, some not, some sensitive, some very forgiving, some suitable for amateurs, some not.

Any cross breed has the potential to get the best or worst of both. But as people complain about "modern wbs" losing the ability to sit and collect properly then this combo could be interesting in a positive way...
 

DabDab

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 May 2013
Messages
10,356
Any cross breed has the potential to get the best or worst of both. But as people complain about "modern wbs" losing the ability to sit and collect properly then this combo could be interesting in a positive way...
A lot of people are generally of the view that you will get a horse with extension and collection. It is invariably one of the first things they say when they ask the breeding of mine and I say PRE X WB. In his case it definitely doesn't hold true and it doesn't hold true in such a way that I find hard to describe but that absolutely convinces me that, breeds aside, mixing a horse with big extension capability with one with big collection capability is unlikely to produce a best of both worlds type situation very often.
 

Cortez

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 January 2009
Messages
10,920
Location
Ireland
The best crosses seem to be with older breeds that have a foundation of Spanish blood in the ancestry (interestingly this includes the TB, which started in the late 17c with Barb & Turkish stallions on "the King's mares", which were largely Spanish. Both the Connemara and Welsh (also the Friesian) have had large infusions of Spanish genes, in the case of Connemaras from medieval times (DNA research).
 
Last edited:

tristar

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 August 2010
Messages
4,414
Luso 🤣. I am surprised that the OC does it as they are traditionally bull fighting bred.

It's a weird one though because they have guarded the Luso and PRE studbooks so zealously to suddenly change to what? Gain more money? Iberians sold for good money anyway.

One of mine is a PRE x TB and she is awesome but waaay hotter then the pure PREs but a warmblood cross might be alright.

perhaps they want to get into the perceived wider dressage market, for money to attract a wider audience
 
Top