All these barefoot posts.....

[tallyho!]

Originally Posted by Horseyscot
My two , in my books, aren't barefoot, they're unshod. And fed and maintained as they would be if they were ( and sometimes are) shod. Who actually invented the whole barefoot thing??? it amazes me how so many are sucked in by new fangled terminology ... Never mind, I'll just go and crawl back under my stone..

It was a FARRIER that "invented" it.

It was not "invented" as such, it was just used in normal conversation and obviously struck a chord with some people and so it was just used MORE. It is not a new word by any stretch of the imagination.

I am glad though, because you don't get much on the Internet when you google unshod. You get more info if you google barefoot because worldwide, it is accepted that, this is the term to use when researching about horses who live without shoes.

Now, it's a sore point for some people like you Horseyscott and it certainly ruffles feathers on HHO based purely on personal preference.

I think the barefoot diet should be called "natural" diet because there is no difference between it and a natural diet. Perhaps it pays more attention to certain aspects of nutrition... Perhaps.

 

[amandap]

So it's about advice not the trim.
That's interesting you see I impression whenI looked into trimmers is that some would be much more radical than the one I chose ( taking off flairs etc) and I was not comfortable with that.

Imo it is mostly advice but as I said there are ways to help horses by trimming the individual horse to help.
Yes there are some much more invasive trimmers and others less so. I find it difficult to explain my understanding without causing a riot of indignant posters saying I'm bashing someone or other. Sometimes/often there needs to be what some term a 'set up' trim, where for eg. compacted sole material that hasn't been able to naturally exfoliate, needs removing and the hoof rebalanced in one or all directions/planes and flare may need addressing. The better trimmers do any necessary adjustments (imo) at a pace the horse copes with well and/or offer advice on measures to keep the horse comfortable if required.
Re flare, this is addressed to greater or lesser degrees by most trimmers and actually farriers (toe rasping) but flare is very often happening due to a metabolic or dietary factor so this needs addressing along with a suitable level of management with trim for that horse. Problems such as flare are considered as something to investigate and manage as opposed to only manage.
Make any sense? lol

 

[Oberon]

So it's about advice not the trim.
That's interesting you see I impression whenI looked into trimmers is that some would be much more radical than the one I chose ( taking off flairs etc) and I was not comfortable with that.

IME the most successful farriers and trimmers adopt a dynamic, 'less is more' approach.

As in - they adapt their trim to the individual horse in front of them, rather than following a 'one size fits all' policy.

This makes trimming bloody complicated though!

The difference between a sound and lame horse can be a mm of tissue being left on. It can be an ugly looking hoof that works well - and the owner and professional have to accept that and agree on it.
A horse's hoof will change and adapt in response to need, so from visit to the next - he may need more heel or a shorter break over, or longer bars, or more medial/lateral wall, or nothing doing at all.......the list can be endless!

I trust my trimmer because he can tell me instantly what needs doing to each horse he trims on the yard and he can explain so in honest, non BS, terms.
Now my old boy has Cushings - I imagine he will make an adjustment based on the flaring he currently has

 

[tallyho!]

Lol

I just googled unshod.... And it comes up with this!!!!


http://www.unshod.org/

 

[FairyLights]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Indy]

I don't care whether you call it his foot, his hoof or his tootsie. I use the term barefoot because it's what comes naturally to me. I tried to rebel a few month ago and started using the term 'unshod' but I had to think about it when I was saying it and barefoot just naturally rolls out of my mouth.

My farrier doesn't give me advice unless I ask for it and because I don't have any problems I don't ask for it so because I don't ask for it he doesn't give it! So, if my horses are fit for purpose and performing the job they are asked to do then my farrier is inadvertently doing a performance trim?

The only time he's has actually stuck his oar in was 12 years ago when he said the best thing I could do for my horse was to pull his shoes off and give his feet a rest and so that's how we became barefoot!

 

[criso]

So it's about advice not the trim.
That's interesting you see I impression whenI looked into trimmers is that some would be much more radical than the one I chose ( taking off flairs etc) and I was not comfortable with that.

I'd say on the whole that's the case. Some farriers and some trimmers are keener to trim the hoof against an ideal shape, some take more of a stand back and see approach.

I believe the right person should look at your horse and do as little or as much as is required without any preconceived ideas.

The reason I now use the person I use who happens to be a trimmer is

- I can bounce ideas about diet off her
- she looks at my whole horse how it moves etc I know farriers should but the 4 or 5 I tried didn't, even when I dragged the horse up and down in front of them.
- I am not a second class citizen so don't have to wait weeks if I have a problem till a farrier is on the yard to shoe a horse
- She comes from a starting point of 'this can work'; not lots of head shaking and sucking teeth and occult mutterings of tb feet before they've even seen my horse.
- she doesn't believe that horse need shoes to do roadwork without even considering the horse
- she doesn't trim frogs and soles as a matter of course

There are several farriers (some post on here) that I would be happy to use if they covered my area but they don't.

 

[tallyho!]

Actually, just googled "barefoot" on it's own...

Came up with barefoot contessa, barefoot doctor, barefoot coffee etc all about natural things so I guess the word is associated with 'nature'... Or natural things.

Not much about barefoot horses came up.

So, be warned you guys... Always add 'horses' to your search to avoid coming up with unshod runners or barefoot coffee....

 

[tallyho!]

I don't care whether you call it his foot, his hoof or his tootsie. I use the term barefoot because it's what comes naturally to me. I tried to rebel a few month ago and started using the term 'unshod' but I had to think about it when I was saying it and barefoot just naturally rolls out of my mouth.

My farrier doesn't give me advice unless I ask for it and because I don't have any problems I don't ask for it so because I don't ask for it he doesn't give it! So, if my horses are fit for purpose and performing the job they are asked to do then my farrier is inadvertently doing a performance trim?

The only time he's has actually stuck his oar in was 12 years ago when he said the best thing I could do for my horse was to pull his shoes off and give his feet a rest and so that's how we became barefoot!

With you on the barefoot thing... To me it just sounds more natural

If the horse performs on the trim = performance trim

 

[Miss L Toe]

Oh dear, sorry I did not cover every eventuality, I am not here to force people to my opinion, I don't want to force anyone to do anything, I just think people should be more open minded, not take a viewpoint based soley on their own experience which must be limited unless they are looking after hundreds of horses and in several different ways:sigh:[END OF QUOTE]
I don't know how to multiple quote, but when I make a statement in one sentence , I don't expect people to edit it and add it on to another sentence/paragraph or post!

 

[Lady La La]

I will make a suggestion and point the owner in the direction of appropriate information and help - then I will duck for cover

You shouldn't have to 'duck for cover' Oberon, especially when you are offering up a suggestion that may help improve a problem.

My intention for posting is to prevent any horse from being in pain. If shoes are the best option for the horse - then shoes it is.

That's really refreshing to hear, and so different to the usual barefoot attitude that seems to be the norm on this forum, of no shoes being the only option. Ever.

I have friends with shod horses - some healthy, some really not healthy....

As do I, and plenty of friends with unshod horses some of which are healthy, and others not so.

I have no issue with people keeping their horses unshod, I have had a mixture of horses; some barefoot, some shod all round and some shod in front only. I do for them that which they require to keep their feet healthy and able to put up with the level of competition that is required of them. What bugs me is the type of person that refuses to understand that shoeing a horse is and always will be a viable option for certain circumstances.

 

[AmyMay]

You shouldn't have to 'duck for cover' Oberon, especially when you are offering up a suggestion that may help improve a problem.

Oberon is the last person who should duck for cover. Always sensible and considered advice and opinions given by her (and a number of others).

 

[tallyho!]

That's really refreshing to hear, and so different to the usual barefoot attitude that seems to be the norm on this forum, of no shoes being the only option. Ever.

Just wondering... Who is this barefoot person that insists that barefoot is the only option?

Lots of people say that this is what barefooters are like from memory, but I can't remember reading anyone who has ever said it is the "only" option.

 

[rhino]

Oh dear, sorry I did not cover every eventuality, I am not here to force people to my opinion, I don't want to force anyone to do anything, I just think people should be more open minded, not take a viewpoint based soley on their own experience which must be limited unless they are looking after hundreds of horses and in several different ways:sigh:[END OF QUOTE]
I don't know how to multiple quote, but when I make a statement in one sentence , I don't expect people to edit it and add it on to another sentence/paragraph or post!

That post makes no sense whatsoever

To multiquote press the button next to the quote button with the " and + on it... When you have chosen all the ones you want to reply to hit 'reply' as usual.

If you are meaning the 'extremist' quote that myself and another poster quoted, you wrote that. It wasn't edited by me or the other poster You clearly went back and edited your own post after it had been quoted by two separate people (as you can see by the 'edit' at the bottom of the post)

You cannot also dictate who does and doesn't quote your posts, and if that is what you are suggesting I'm even more confused than usual.

Just bizarre!

 

[JFTDWS]

Just as an aside I can think of a number of barefoot fanatics on this forum, but I can't think of a single poster who is actively anti-having horses without shoes on. That means that surely those who are anti-barefoot are just those who aren't convinced by the marketing and limited "science" behind the barefoot movement In which case I'm anti-barefoot despite having no shod horses, which seems a little odd

 

[rhino]

Just as an aside I can think of a number of barefoot fanatics on this forum, but I can't think of a single poster who is actively anti-having horses without shoes on. That means that surely those who are anti-barefoot are just those who aren't convinced by the marketing and limited "science" behind the barefoot movement In which case I'm anti-barefoot despite having no shod horses, which seems a little odd

There are quite a few of us who don't own any shod beasties but also don't believe all the 'hype' and pseudo science

 

[Lady La La]

Just wondering... Who is this barefoot person that insists that barefoot is the only option?

Cptrayes.

(Well, you did ask...)

Just as an aside I can think of a number of barefoot fanatics on this forum, but I can't think of a single poster who is actively anti-having horses without shoes on. That means that surely those who are anti-barefoot are just those who aren't convinced by the marketing and limited "science" behind the barefoot movement In which case I'm anti-barefoot despite having no shod horses, which seems a little odd

This is exactly what I have been thinking to myself. Apparently I am anti barefoot, yet my barefooted horses say otherwise

 

[JFTDWS]

There are quite a few of us who don't own any shod beasties but also don't believe all the 'hype' and pseudo science

You're brave. I wrote pseudoscience and edited it out as I thought I'd be lynched

 

[amandap]

Cptrayes.

(Well, you did ask...)



This is exactly what I have been thinking to myself. Apparently I am anti barefoot, yet my barefooted horses say otherwise

I have to state that naming cptrayes as saying shoeing is never an option is 100% INCORRECT. You obviously don't read or absorb her posts well enough.

I have read on numerous occasions when she has said words to the effect of... if your horse is uncomfortable and you can't get him comfy shoe!

Also I find it interesting some people feel they are not anti barefoot and spend an awful lot of time arguing against it and complaining about posters who are pro. as their 'standard' if you like. Lol

I have stated that I believe shoes harm hooves in the longer term but if owners want to shoe fine, get on with it. I might have to shoe mine one day... who knows. I doubt I would like it and would want a robust irrefutable reason clearly explained but if it was best for my horses then so be it.

 

[Clava]

Cptrayes.

(Well, you did ask...)

o

Actually I think she has done some very clear threads purely about when shoes are the option.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=477922

edit - cross posted with amandap

 

[AmyMay]

I have to state that naming cptrayes as saying shoeing is never an option is 100% INCORRECT. You obviously don't read or absorb her posts well enough.

I have read on numerous occasions when she has said words to the effect of... if your horse is uncomfortable and you can't get him comfy shoe!

Usually, however, with the caveat that you're shoeing because you simply can't be bothered to work at having the horse barefoot.

 

[Lady La La]

I have to state that naming cptrayes as saying shoeing is never an option is 100% INCORRECT. You obviously don't read or absorb her posts well enough.

I have read on numerous occasions when she has said words to the effect of... if your horse is uncomfortable and you can't get him comfy shoe!

That may well be the case, however it's not something I've seen. I have seen her bang on and on and on at people to keep shoes off their horses, when IMO it wasn't/isn't/never will be a viable option. Swings and roundabouts, clearly.
I can only judge on that which I have seen, and I must admit I usually try and stay away from barefoot threads as some of the attitudes involved wind me up, so I'm sure you are entirely correct.
At least I was brave enough to answer the question though eh, Tallyho

 

[amandap]

Re pseudoscience... yes there is that. Give me the science that says shoeing is NOT harmful and is 'best' for horses etc. etc. Give me the science that says wedges and pads for life are required in given conditions. etc. etc. etc.
Is some of this not pseudoscience? Perhaps I don't understand the meaning of the word.

 

[rhino]

Usually, however, with the caveat that you're shoeing because you simply can't be bothered to work at having the horse barefoot.

She agreed that my old boy was a less than ideal candidate for going barefoot and I'm pretty sure she said she would do the same (i.e. keeping shod) in the same circumstances

ETA found it, apologies for cross quoting but this is what cptrayes said, absolutely no caveats given.

That's a VERY good reason to shoe. I'd do the same in your place.

Similarly somewhere like Rockley wouldn't consider him as a candidate, which I find comforting.

 

[amandap]

That may well be the case, however it's not something I've seen. I have seen her bang on and on and on at people to keep shoes off their horses, when IMO it wasn't/isn't/never will be a viable option. Swings and roundabouts, clearly.
I can only judge on that which I have seen, and I must admit I usually try and stay away from barefoot threads as some of the attitudes involved wind me up, so I'm sure you are entirely correct.
At least I was brave enough to answer the question though eh, Tallyho

I am not going to get into a discussion about another poster I find that highly distasteful.

Bully for you being so brave!

 

[Oberon]

You shouldn't have to 'duck for cover' Oberon, especially when you are offering up a suggestion that may help improve a problem.

I duck for cover because I sometimes get some heat for "trying to sell barefoot as the answer to everything" and also because I often advise them to speak to Rockley Farm to discuss one to one with someone...and then I am accused of 'stealth marketing'

That's really refreshing to hear, and so different to the usual barefoot attitude that seems to be the norm on this forum, of no shoes being the only option. Ever.

I am not sure where I have seen this posted by barefooters on here. I am sorry you have seen such posts. Such a narrow view of 'barefoot is the only option' is unrealistic and not in the best interests of the horse.

What bugs me is the type of person that refuses to understand that shoeing a horse is and always will be a viable option for certain circumstances.

I agree.
What bugs me is the fundamental belief held by some owners, farriers, instructors and vets that shoes are the only option and that heart bars are the magic cure for all ailments.
It bugs me when horses are PTS because the poor owner has tried everything to get a horse sound and spent a fortune following the vet's advice...but was never given the option of taking the shoes off and letting the horse heal.
It bugs me that horses are routinely shod 365 days a year - this is not recommended in any farriery text to my knowledge.
It bugs me when people accept a pathalogical hoof as inevitable due to the breed of the horse.

But mostly I bug myself that I can't just shut up about it all

This is one of the more interesting discoveries I made in a farriery text...I actually had nightmares afterwards...
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=501673&highlight=curative+burning

And yet removing the shoes was never an option to this horse

 

[Lady La La]

I am not going to get into a discussion about another poster I find that highly distasteful.

Bully for you being so brave!

There doesn't need to be a discussion

Tallyho asked me a question, to which I provided an answer. If everything on Hho was as straight forward as the above transaction, life on this forum would be a lot less complicated

What bugs me is the fundamental belief held by some owners, farriers, instructors and vets that shoes are the only option and that heart bars are the magic cure for all ailments.
It bugs me when horses are PTS because the poor owner has tried everything to get a horse sound and spent a fortune following the vet's advice...but was never given the option of taking the shoes off and letting the horse heal.
It bugs me that horses are routinely shod 365 days a year - this is not recommended in any farriery text to my knowledge.
It bugs me when people accept a pathalogical hoof as inevitable due to the breed of the horse.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

[AmyMay]

She agreed that my old boy was a less than ideal candidate for going barefoot and I'm pretty sure she said she would do the same (i.e. keeping shod) in the same circumstances

ETA found it, apologies for cross quoting but this is what cptrayes said, absolutely no caveats given.

Similarly somewhere like Rockley wouldn't consider him as a candidate, which I find comforting.

Ah, that's great. And I apologise for demonising cptrayes in my post. It is, however, my abiding memory of what she often says - unfortunately.

 

[amandap]

Usually, however, with the caveat that you're shoeing because you simply can't be bothered to work at having the horse barefoot.

If this is your interpretation that's fine but I have never read anything stating that posters can't be bothered.

If suggestions are made that posters for various reasons cant use, do or agree with then claiming the poster(advising poster) said you can't be bothered is the readers interpretation.

 

[Oberon]

Just as an aside I can think of a number of barefoot fanatics on this forum, but I can't think of a single poster who is actively anti-having horses without shoes on. That means that surely those who are anti-barefoot are just those who aren't convinced by the marketing and limited "science" behind the barefoot movement In which case I'm anti-barefoot despite having no shod horses, which seems a little odd

I think that marks you as a dissident

The Barefoot Taliban allows you status as a Highland, leg removable, specialist, sub-member