Am I going to know when it's the right time? :(

MyBoyChe said:
Cedars, Im so sorry you and Chloe are having such a tough time. I have no idea where abouts you live but are you confident that your vets are doing the right thing, by this I mean do they have specialist knowledge or are they taking advice. The reason I ask is that, if she were mine, I would speak very frankly to my vet (I am lucky that I have an excellent practise and a senior vet who I trust implicitly to either know the answer, have the infrastructure to find out and if necessary tell me straight what is in the dogs best interest) and if they believe that even with all the testing and variations of treatment, that there is no guarantee of long term improvement, I would PTS sooner rather than later. I think its important to consider her quality of life now, as well as what may be, I believe that dogs, like horses, think of the here and now and dont see the bigger picture as we do. If she can be kept pain free and comfortable whilst treatment is ongoing then by all means, i would try anything that would help, but and this is a big but, if i thought she was truly miserable i would call it a day. A bit harsh, maybe, but I, like you appear to be saying in your OP, cant bear to see my dogs unhappy. Last Xmas time I lost my old ESS, she was nearly 14 but between Boxing Day and NYE she lost the use of one of her back legs and could no longer take herself outside. I was able to carry her out to the garden but she was so unhappy, you could see it in her eyes. It was an aggressive bone cancer, terminal but manageable for the short term. I chose to have her PTS so that she lost no dignity and suffered no pain. This is my personal opinion, please do not think I am judging anyone, Im not but if you do decide to call it a day no one will think any the less of you, quite the opposite I feel. Hugs x
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my old lab too had bone cancer in his back hip joint. it came on in a matter of months and his back left hip and leg wasted away drastically. he also started having more and more trouble walking. The vet gave us morphine and the poor thing lived in a stoned daze for a few weeks but at least he didnt seem to be in pain until but the day he came in from the garden, tripped over the doorstep fell over and couldnt get up. Right there and then i carried him to the car in a blanket, took him to the vet and had him pts.

it broke my heart, id had him over 10 years. cancer's a horrible thing.

OP, i think you will know when the time is right, Cloe will tell you and you will hear her.. keep persevering with the steriods for the meantime.

goodluck x
 
I have seen skins crapes being done-they are absoloutely NOT horrific, over very quickly, to be honest she will barely notice them, most dogs do not need muzzled for them. A blood test is probablyon equal level for distress and time taken. The blood test may or may not be offered by your vet and doesn't test for parasites, so not really much use from taht point of view, although I can see for allergy testing, definitely a possible option.
Take a ncie treat in with you, she'll not be bothered-honestly.
 
I dont know about it being horrific ive seen several dogs that have had it done and you can hardly tell. I would have thought that a skin test would be a good idea, the dog is sedated and small amounts of things that the dog may be allergic to injected. If the dog reacts to something then you may be able to have a special immunotherapy treatment made up which is slowly built up til its injected once a month. Has she had anti histamines?

I think I would be asking to be refered to a dermatolagist. You would be surprised what can be done to make dogs with skin conditions comfatable.
 
No-she's had a recurrent ear infection that we have never been able to cure since she was tiny-and shes always been really itchy and had manky skin, usually helped by special shampoo, but then two weeks ago for whatever reason she got really really bad. When she's been on the steroids she's not been itchy at all, but now she's coming down off the dose the dandruffy skin is coming back and she's itching again-but nothing like as bad as she was when she reacted two weeks ago-she had a temperature of 39.6, was bright red, and very very poorly.

It's not a parasite as she and bracken are super close, share beds, water bowls, the sofa, play together and bite each other-if it was a parasite, we'd know, because bracken would have it too. Xx
 
Also steriods can have a lot of side effects including depression so dont give up on her yet. Speak to your vet it sounds like there are lots of things to be looked in to yet.
 
It's not a parasite as she and bracken are super close, share beds, water bowls, the sofa, play together and bite each other-if it was a parasite, we'd know, because bracken would have it too. Xx

-not true. Demodex in particular tends to only affect animals who are systemically ill so their immune response lowers-parasite goes 'aha'! and the problem starts- and does not spread necessarily no matter how close the dogs are-as I believe Cayla has told and she will be used to these things.
Labs are very prone to poor skin/random itching-I'm sat here with mine giving the occasional itch on her third day of her most recent Atopica, her skin was pink, under her elbows and stifles all starting to show hair loss, itching like mad. She's obviously allergic to something at this time of year, it started about two weeks ago. (mine that is)

so you have had bad itching for the last two weeks essentially, which is no time for getting rid of the problem although I appreciate it is not fun to watch an itchy dog and I know you've had other issues with the steroids.
 
Shes so bad today :( spoken to vets who can't see her any earlier than tuesday :( (unless it's an emergency obviously). She's just laid on the sofa basically refusing to move :( she will look at me but shes not wagged her tail all day :(
 
Nope she's not on anything. Its got to be grass or pollen or something..

Thanks Susie you're being so kind and I'm just having a panic :( she won't get on the sofa today, she's too hot so she's just lying on the wooden floor :(
 
If it is a allergy to pollen or something there are things that will help such as anti histimines and possibly immunotherapy.
My dog is allergic to grass and tree pollen and some other things such as dust mites and storage mites. This was found out from having a allergy test and he is controle by piriton and a monthly immunotherapy jab.
He sometimes has a flare up for which he is given steriods.
He also has arthritis for which he has painkillers which can be difficult if he needs to have steriods as they cant be given with most painkillers.

A skin scrape isnot horrific as I have seen several times an a allergy test may not be pleasant but it will help you get to the bottom of this.
There are things to try so dont give up.
 
Could somebody tell me exactly what the tests entail?

google is telling me that a skin scrape is a 6cm by 8cm area of skin...?! I'm just not having that done to her.

Also, she reacts EXTREMELY badly (as in, we've had to use steroid cream before) to being shaved, so im not having them shave vast swaithes of skin either.
 
In the skin scrapes I have seen they only take some of the top layer of skin off the dogs were not bothered by it.
The allergy test is when a little of the things they may be allergic to is injected under the skin to see if they react. a area of skin is shaved for them to do this and the dog is sedated but once they are awake again they are ok.
You need to see a dermatolagist.
Dont really know what else can be said about it really as if you are not prepared to have the tests done I dont know what the answer is
 
Dobiegirl said:
I agree with MM give it more time, then you will know youve tried every avenue. If after everything there is no improvement
I do hope that the steroids soon start taking affect
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Steroids may cause weight gain. Keep an eye on her food intake. Don't give up, keep trying various avenues. She's only a youngster, keep going. You'd never forgive yourself if you didn't try everything.

itsmylife said:
Has she been skin tested?
Has she been put on to a exclusion diet? Try something like a Fish and potato diet only with nothing else ie treats bones etc to rule out a food allergy.
lastly has your vet suggested a specialist dermatologist?
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All of this ^^

Also, has the vet suggested Piriton? I'm appalled he's not given her a skin scrape yet. Surely a moment of discomfort is better than not doing one if it is some form of parasite?

Also, you could ask for a test for hyperthyroidism if she's getting tired so quickly: I don't believe that's normal if the hip op was successful. :confused:

A girl with a Goldie on another forum switched to raw and has seen an improvement. She recently took the dog for millions of skin tests and is awaiting results from a vet college in Essex (?). I can give you her name and the relevant forum if you want: she has been through it with her boy's skin conditions. PM me if you want her details.
 
I'm thinking more along the lines of if she hasn't any antinflammatories it could well be her dodgy hips playing up, I know she had a femoral head excision didn't she? (on one or both I can't remember?) so she could be sore that way. Once she comes off the steroids I would be inclined to put her on an NSAID if she remains depressed to see if her hips are bothering her.
Just make sure it's not something other than the skin that's annoying her-is she eating and drinking?
Skin scrape is taking a scalpel balde and using it in a horizontal motion(not cutting the skin) to literally scrape the top layer of skin off. You could do it to yourself quite happily. You go until you get the tiniest bit of blood. It is an area of ohh..maybe 1cm by 2cm maximum. They will do maybe two or three sites. It doesnt require being shaved. It is very straightforward,not a procedure I would be at all worred about putting my dogs through.
As an aside- with her hip issues I'd be encouraging her to be a floor dog-getting on and off sofa's isn't great for poorly hips-although if she's used to it it can be hard.
 
We have skin scrapes done on our animals at work all the time, the vet is just looking to collect enough to place on a microscope slide. Think back to your school days, those things are small!
Most dogs don't make any fuss, some are a bit wriggly. I have never seen one react too badly. The benefits will far outweigh any worries you have.
It will be over in moments and you'll wonder what you were worrying for, the results will be back before you know it.

Good Luck :)
 
Echo the floor/sofa thing. The impulsion required to get on the sofa will be quite taxing. I'd consider a bed off the floor, but just, so she's not getting the coldness seeping through vet bed etc. Look at these:http://kuranda.com/ they're orthopaedic and supportive. The dogs in my sig are on the largest size, you'd probably need the size down for Chloe.

The steroids could be making her depressed and if she's uncomfortable and/or in pain, she may well act differently. For sure, my big lad sulks if he has to wear his buster collar.
 
Not read the whole thread so sorry if I repeat anything!
Our GSD (now 11) started with atopic dermatitis at the age of 2 - she was itching/scratching/biting so bad that she was tearing her skin to shreds. Our other dog was not affected. First they checked for mange etc and tried piriton to no avail - she was on steroids to break the itch-scratch cycle.
They did a skin scrape - she needed no sedation/painkiller etc she barely noticed it had been done, she had allergy tests which came back approx allergic to 48 out of 50 tests! - long story short, we were referred to a fantastic dermatologist who tried desensitising vaccines on her which again, didn't work. She ended up very poorly indeed with numerous infections in her skin and had to be fully clothed just to stop her scratching. We were almost at the end and then they put her on atopica and now (it has been a long, long road and not easy!) she is on the dose a cocker spaniel would need and being very well managed on it. All her fur has grown back and as long as we keep her clipped under her belly and arms she copes really well :)
Don't give up
K x
 
I'm sure her hips aren't causing her pain, we're good at recognising the signs now. She still wants to be active and move so I'm not worried about that (good thought though thank you).

She's still eating and drinking absolutely fine.

Do they do the skin scrape under anaesthetic? This is going to sound attention seeking and I don't mean it to...but when I self harm thats the way I do it, and trust me, it HURTS the next day...

Oh I just don't know.
 
Look, Chloe is not going to self harm. Regardless of what you do, she NEEDS a skin scrape to eliminate any related issues. It's not the nicest thing in the world, but you need to organise anything you can for her to be comfortable long term.
 
I know she doesnt self harm, what I mean is i KNOW that hurts.

I am not willing to put her through any more pain. On reading up on symptoms I do not believe it is a parasite so I am not willing to put her through that willy nilly.

Somebody has to stand up for my girl.
 
What hurts a person is not necessarily going to hurt a dog. I know you are worried sick about Chloe but please try and approach this calmly. Speak to your vet again and ask him to refer you to a dermatologist , surely it is worth a few simple tests to try and get a solution. Did you mention SLE to your vet?
 
Cedars in the nicest possible way I think you are projecting your feelings on to Chloe. You are allowing your feelings to cloud your judgement. If she was an old dog with a narrow future yes I would say is it worth continueing, but she is a young dog, same age as mine and I would turn over every leaf for them in a search for an answer. Dont go trawling the internet you will convince yourself she has got everything under the sun. I certainly wouldnt rule out mange, Ive heard that dogs with a lower immune system are not able to deal with it in way a dog with no problems would have. Chloes immune system is comprimised and she could have anything that a normal healthy dog would shrug off.
Lots of people have given you excellent advice, write them down and take to your vets and I hope you can get some answers or be given more hope on Tuesday.
 
Yes, that is what I and others on this thread are doing-standing up for her to get a proper diagnosis and the correct treatment. Which is not done by simply looking at the dog.
You are being silly/naive about this skin scrape-it is not a big deal, as everyone has said who knows what they are talking about as we havethad dogs who have had the test etc. etc. It would be utterly abbominable if the dog was PTS without having had a skin scrape becasue she was itchy. See your vet on tuesday-discuss it with him then, with a sensible head on that is not over dramatising what is a very simple test although maybe it is hard to see that when you have never seen one done. Rest assured There is no more information I can give you about it. A vet is qualified, has seen lots of cases so will know what is appropriate, whithout meaning to sound harsh-they will know more thans omeone who has been googling.
 
What do you feed Chloe? Just looking at it from another angle, my spaniel (predominantly white) has very sensitive skin. If I feed him a cheap bag of own brand working mix, after just a few days his skin goes red, hot, sore and he licks and scratches - back to good old Skinners and he is right as rein again (a lesson for me here - never get short on dog food! ;) )

It could be that you are feeding too high a protein content, a food that has colourings or additives maybe?
 
I thought I had replid at the beginning ofthis, sorry only cim ead abit towards the end.

SKIN SCAPES are nothing!, it takes minutes and it's literally just that, a blade scraped over the skin very briskly and lightly. So don't be thinking it's somehting horrendous, I have scratched my self deeper with a blade just being a lazy cow and using it to itch myself:rolleyes:

Don't rule out parasites the attack at he right time for a nice little invasion, when the immune sysem is otherwise taxed and they will not effect another healthy animal, hence im sure said this somewhere:confused: I just cannot find it.

We had a rescue lurcher in with a horrendous fracture to the from leg, it was badly infected, in the man time she had a horrendous skin flare up, this poor dog looked horendous, she was red raw, scratching herself to pieces.
We did not use a steroid as we did not want to interfear with her immunity anymore than needed although I was desperate cos she looked pityful, the steroids would have aso hampered the treatment and testing we carried out inc a blood test for scabies (which she had) she was run down in a mess, had scabies had an infection in her leg and also showed positive for pollen, duck and storage mite allergy. I wont lie the testing us (my mam) back nearly £900 but she was only 9 months old.
Her food was also kept in air tight contaners and never a bag, this was bestto avoid the storage mite she was allergic to.
Wit skin it can be a game of "ruling it out" and it's things you are least likely to think of.

TREATMENT
Skin scrapes, blood tests, allergy tests and then Aludex, synulox, stronghold 9(ivermectin), an elizabethan collar to stop her scatching, malaseb baths also put on james well beloved fish. She cleared up lovely.
We also replaced her collar with a neoprene on as the metal on her collar was also causing issues. Todya she is a picture of health, no issues, no special requirements.
 
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