Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
Me, though it is because the YOs loose dogs fight with them.
Another loose dog incident at an event. Time to ban dogs?
- Thread starter Tiddlypom
- Start date
Fred66
Well-Known Member
Actually read back, you’ll find many of those arguing to ban dogs are complaining about behaviour of dogs not about safety
TPO
Well-Known Member
Actually read back and you'll find those arguing for a ban are doing so for safety on the xc course.
The fact that some dogs & their owners are also an annoying nuisance is any the by. I'd be happy to see them banned for that reason alone but the main concern is a safety of competitors one.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
Could those people volunteering for FJ, like Goldenstar, maybe have a suitable dog crate to keep their dog with them but secure..?? I appreciate that it does depend on the size/breed of the dog.
The truth of the matter is that the dogs aren't the problem, it's the general dumbfuckery performed by their owners that is the problem.
I believe there must be some form of compromise somewhere..?? For competitors and volunteers at least.
As for spectators I really don't see the need to take a dog, and can't imagine what the dog would get out of it to be honest. Those saying that they like to take their dogs out for a family day etc wouldn't think to take the dog to the Zoo or theme park though..??
The truth of the matter is that the dogs aren't the problem, it's the general dumbfuckery performed by their owners that is the problem.
I believe there must be some form of compromise somewhere..?? For competitors and volunteers at least.
As for spectators I really don't see the need to take a dog, and can't imagine what the dog would get out of it to be honest. Those saying that they like to take their dogs out for a family day etc wouldn't think to take the dog to the Zoo or theme park though..??
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Over the years I think I have seen more loose horses at events, people will leave them tied to a lorry and then leave them, and they are far more dangerous than any loose dog. At our very small RC show one managed to dodge through a human sized gap and head for the road, minus its bridle. So if we are going down the route of H&S, lets ban horses at events, and some people who attend may be frightened of them and may be allergic to them. I wish I had a pound for every time as a steward I had prevented some human from doing something that potentially injure themselves and others.
There are some judges and stewards that do the circuit, they are the backbone of most of the larger events in the summer, often older they spend their summer, trying to ensure everything goes to plan and most have a dog in tow for company.
Most dogs at events are well-behaved, there are enough of them that go to Burghley every year, it's more like a dog's day out, that if there was a real problem there would be a lot more reports. People with dogs tend to attend as a family group, stay longer buy more food and drink, and therefore the event can charge the trade stands more.
The irony of is this discussion is taking place on the H&H forum, dogs and horses have always gone together in equine sporting pursuits. The local hunt always a dog and working dog show as well as the x-crountry course open on the same day.
My daughter takes her dog to work, a lot of lone workers do, she sits in her basket in a corner of the shop. The biggest dog I have seen in an office is a bloodhound, it laid under the desk sprawled out.
There are some judges and stewards that do the circuit, they are the backbone of most of the larger events in the summer, often older they spend their summer, trying to ensure everything goes to plan and most have a dog in tow for company.
Most dogs at events are well-behaved, there are enough of them that go to Burghley every year, it's more like a dog's day out, that if there was a real problem there would be a lot more reports. People with dogs tend to attend as a family group, stay longer buy more food and drink, and therefore the event can charge the trade stands more.
The irony of is this discussion is taking place on the H&H forum, dogs and horses have always gone together in equine sporting pursuits. The local hunt always a dog and working dog show as well as the x-crountry course open on the same day.
My daughter takes her dog to work, a lot of lone workers do, she sits in her basket in a corner of the shop. The biggest dog I have seen in an office is a bloodhound, it laid under the desk sprawled out.
WandaMare
Well-Known Member
There are some posts on here criticising people for taking their dogs to enjoy the day out as though it’s some selfish crime. I don’t think that’s true at all, don’t most people go to watch an event for pleasure anyway? Most people ride and participate in the sport for pleasure, enjoying their dogs is just another element of that, they re not doing anything wrong. I don’t think it’s right to judge people harshly when they are just doing what they have been invited to do. A lot of events positively encourage people to take their dogs with the dog crèches and bowls of water put out for them. The only warnings I ve noticed from organisers are about leaving them in hot cars, I haven’t been especially aware of other instructions about keeping them secure at all times. I think the usual keep your dog on a lead is not strong enough for these circumstances. So there is probably plenty of scope to up the awareness of this risk which combined with some other measures such as no dogs when walking the course, must be worth trying before an all out ban. I don’t think it’s right to criticise people for enjoying themselves though, As well as sounding quite resentful, it undermines some of the good points made about potential risks.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I think your arguments are fatuous ,there no comparison between a dog sitting in a car and bringing your horse .
I am simply saying what I think which is I won’t go to horse trials without a dog .
there are limits to altruism and that’s mine .
I don’t use my groom as cheap pet care and my dogs don’t run around with out me there .I regard her as a professional and treat her accordingly .
We managed to steward just shy off 200 people round a ride yesterday I would say half us had dogs amazingly they sat with us in the cars and there no issues .
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ester
Not slacking multitasking
It's interesting as I I think there's an awful lot less dogs at Burghley than at Badminton, I've certainly tripped over fewer.
I've never seen a loose horse chase an XC competitor (but am reminded of the dressage video where it keeps going across the shot.
(I loved dogs, I only don't have my own because of work, I am a perpetual dog borrower, but I do think that more steps could be taken to keep them secure during XC events).
I've never seen a loose horse chase an XC competitor (but am reminded of the dressage video where it keeps going across the shot.
(I loved dogs, I only don't have my own because of work, I am a perpetual dog borrower, but I do think that more steps could be taken to keep them secure during XC events).
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
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Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Of course Ester , dogs at competitions should be on slip leads and extendable leads should not be used .
I was bitten at a show jumping competition by a dog on a extendable leader it just ran up and grabbed hold of my knee
I was bitten at a show jumping competition by a dog on a extendable leader it just ran up and grabbed hold of my knee
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Thing is there should never be an incident where a dog or multiple dogs are chasing a horse on the cross country. That is clearly completely unacceptable. That needs to never happen or at the very least be a 1 in a million event.
How do you reduce the chances of it happening to near zero? Because that's where it needs to be.
Yes there are other things that can go wrong. Personally I would have strict spectator zones and course walk times when no-one was on course. It seems mad to me to have people wandering about supposedly listening for whistles.
But being chased by a dog is just so bad because the whole thing can just escalate and escalate... if a horse spooks and runs from a buggy for example then there is distance between you and the buggy and you can regain control. Plus you can spook bust your horse against buggies. Good luck spook busting against being chased and nipped by a dog...
How do you reduce the chances of it happening to near zero? Because that's where it needs to be.
Yes there are other things that can go wrong. Personally I would have strict spectator zones and course walk times when no-one was on course. It seems mad to me to have people wandering about supposedly listening for whistles.
But being chased by a dog is just so bad because the whole thing can just escalate and escalate... if a horse spooks and runs from a buggy for example then there is distance between you and the buggy and you can regain control. Plus you can spook bust your horse against buggies. Good luck spook busting against being chased and nipped by a dog...
Xmasha
Well-Known Member
I cant understand why anyone would take the dogs FJ. Ive fenced judged for the past couple of years, and every event ive been too you have just about had enough time to go for a wee and eat your lunch. the horses come through so fast you dont get a minute. So what do the dogs do all day ? Sitting all day either inside a car or on the grass (if your lucky enough for good weather ) doesnt seem like much for them.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
My dog sits in the back of the car he’s does not need a crate .
People ( pre Covid ) ttake dogs to horse trials to spectate because it’s a doggy day out just as dog tourism is a huge and growing business (it’s really growing in Northumberland ).
When I competed our dogs ( we travelled with three at that time ) they stayed in the lorry living when the competition was running , when we had a puppy they had a crate in the horse area and we took a Little run .
The truth is BE has allowed certain competitors to behave in an irresponsible way for years and they can stop it if they have a will .
oh I am such an airhead I only have a tail bandage as a lead and Fluffy is now loose ( but I can drive a huge lorry and manage a business that turns over more than the VAT threshold )
oh I am in such demand I can’t possibly walk the xc while people gallop round with out talking on my phone the whole time and now my three terriers are on the loose .
Once a competition is running it’s not good enough .BE can stop it if they choose they have the power to sanction riders if they have the will .
honetpot
Well-Known Member
A loose is more likely to kill or injure a spectator, its already happened, that why at most events they are very careful about separating spectators from equines. Most events now have a rule that dogs should be kept on leads at all times.
Most incidents with horses and spectators, its not just a spook, they jump out of the ring, or run through barriers.
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/new...k-brockagh-collides-spectator-gatcombe-505687
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/spectator-injured-barbury-502602
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
I'm talking about comparative level of danger to riders from dogs vs spectators. Danger to spectators is a separate discussion.
Arzada
Well-Known Member
Good luck with that! My parents wouldn't have my SIL's dog in the house. There was alot of tension around every visit. It was allowed in the garden where it proceeded to chase the hens. Of course it was playing and wouldn't hurt them. Too right I said and put it in the shed. They came down to stay the night before my Dad's funeral. She slept in the house and her husband and son in their camper van outside. During the night I realised that she had the dog with her. Such respect for my parents and my Mum who had been especially kind to her.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
'very careful' - a bit of rope at best? Often nothing at all on course at lower level BE. Albeit the threat of loose horses/out of control horses to spectators (not competitors) is a different one to what we are actually discussing.
Yes there are rules that dogs should be on leads, as shown time and time again they often either remove the lead or run off with it so that doesn't seem to be solving the problem.
Yes there are rules that dogs should be on leads, as shown time and time again they often either remove the lead or run off with it so that doesn't seem to be solving the problem.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
You need to use slip leads in public at events like horse trials IMO.
I always have slip leads in the car and truck in case of breakdowns stuff like that
I always have slip leads in the car and truck in case of breakdowns stuff like that
Fred66
Well-Known Member
Life has risks. BE (listening to their members) have decided not to ban it therefore should and do mitigate. So dogs on leads needs to be enforced, fines and expulsion if dogs are let off leads.
Would it be safer if there were no dogs - yes. Equally it would be safer if we had no cars, or if the speed limit on all roads was 20 miles an hour, but it’s not going to happen because it would cause uproar.
Personally I think it’s lovely to see folks out with family and dogs enjoying the cross country and that BE would be a poorer place if this were discouraged.
Would it be safer if there were no dogs - yes. Equally it would be safer if we had no cars, or if the speed limit on all roads was 20 miles an hour, but it’s not going to happen because it would cause uproar.
Personally I think it’s lovely to see folks out with family and dogs enjoying the cross country and that BE would be a poorer place if this were discouraged.
pansymouse
Well-Known Member
I don't like dogs and never knowingly go to events where they are allowed. I find a lot of dog owners assume that everyone loves their pet as much as they do and let them go up to strangers unchecked. For me that's not OK and when I back off I often get a "She/he only wants to say hello" to which I want to say "well I don't" but generally I just exit the situation. To be clear I'm not scared of dogs (I grew up with them), they're just an animal I don't particularly relate to.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
What are the mitigations BE are putting into place.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Must be a particularly English thing; the one time I've been to Badminton it was more like Crufts! There are certainly dogs at the events I've been to here (Ireland), but far, far fewer than there seem to be over there. Having seen a couple of loose dog chase incidents on XC, and one at a SJ competition, and also having had dogs chase me when riding, seen several dogs injured (and one killed outright), I am firmly of the opinion that if you cannot control your dog around horses then the dog shouldn't be allowed around horses - and I include my own dogs in this: one is fine, the other not.
FestiveG
Over the hill and far awa
Do these events make enough money to run without spectators? If not, then banning them bringing their dogs will have an impact on revenue! Given that the loose dogs appear to have belonged to competitors in this instance, fining the owners should have been an easy call!
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Posted this on the wrong thread. ?
Fred66
Well-Known Member
For the big shows that have shopping villages rather than just a line of trade stands then I think banning dogs in the shopping villages is perfectly acceptable. Most dogs would rather not be in the crowds and they quite often have doggy crèche at these places.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think the reliance on spectators for funding entirely depends on the size of the event.
YG they did fine them.
YG they did fine them.
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
But we are talking about risks that can be eliminated. You can't, funnily enough, run an equestrian event without horses so that risk will always exist. But you can run one without dogs so...
Fred66
Well-Known Member
You can run one without spectators as well. They pose a risk to the horse rider as well, equally loose horses cause a danger to the spectator.
Horses on roads are a danger to the rider and other road users lets ban them. Or at least make them pass a test to show they are safe to be on the road.
Children shouldn’t be allowed to ride either as it’s a dangerous sport and it’s a parents job to keep them safe.
Horses that kick shouldn’t be allowed at horse events they cause a risk.
The list goes on ....
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
My fledgling eventing volunteer career nearly finished as soon at it started in c1970. A 12 yo me was nearly taken out by a dual Badminton/Burghley winner when I was timekeeping
. I was ‘safely’ off the course but near the start/finish assisting my mum. I’d seen him galloping towards the finish in good time and called out his number to my mum, who had the stopwatches. He was looking down at his stopwatch and at the last minute veered off course (no ropes) so that he missed the finish, but nearly ran me over. It turned out that he’d worked out that his round wasn’t quite fast enough to win, but he didn’t want the horse to upgrade without a win, so deliberately missed the finish.He got an epic roasting later from my mum. A senior international rider is no match for a Pony Club branch secretary who has just seen her daughter nearly mowed down
.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
When you organise and event you have to mitigate risk, it's a risky sport, and when you have spectators there are extra risks, but spectators help balance the books. Even a small show will often have a horse and hound jumping, the catering may provide free drinks and even free or discounted food for officials, depending on the size of the event and the amount of people there. Speaking from experience when a family attends an event they spend far more than a competitor who just come for their one class perhaps two and goes home, in entries and in food. The dog now is part of the family, its become a fur baby. So if you are selling trade stand space, from clothes to animal care you need footfall, and people to spend as much time at your event, so you can charge the stands as much as possible. I spend far less now than when I attended events with two children, and the dog.
So there is always a balance between the risks and the benefit. The risk to the event from an insurance claim from a horse injuring a spectator, if they can prove negligence, is greater than the risk to them or the spectators than a dog being in control and on a lead, its covered with, all dogs must be kept on leads. It's like no lunging in the lorry park, people still do it, and horses get loose, it's not the event's liability.