Another Man V Horse entrant…

[Ample Prosecco]

Wasn’t sure whether just to hop on Patterdale’s thread but that felt a bit rude. On the other hand, sharing training and progress on one thread might make more sense so I can head there if that’s better.

Lottie is now also a reserve rider for Man V Horse. It’s a big target for 2024 (with me running and sharer riding) and the idea is 2023 is a recce - with no aim but to see if she mentally copes and to get her round safe. Sharer will ride and I will crew. Apparently reserves have a very high likelihood of getting a ride so we are training as if we are doing it.

She went on a hacking holiday last year in the a Welsh mountains and stormed up everything. And she does a lot of fast, rough, steep hacking anyway so she has already had over a year of leg conditioning to prepare. She’s entered into a few endurance GB rides in March/April so they will be an interesting test.

Can’t wait but also a bit

 

[AandK]

I've never heard of this before, looks like lots of fun! Good luck to you all, I know I'd rather be riding than running!!

 

[stangs]

Good luck!

Interested to hear how you're preparing Lottie for it, but also how you'll be preparing yourself to run next year.

 

[Patterdale]

Oooh how exciting!! Please jump on my thread - it can be our thread
What number reserve are you?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Good luck!

Interested to hear how you're preparing Lottie for it, but also how you'll be preparing yourself to run next year.

9 hilly miles today. She could have gone round twice. Fitness wise I don’t think it will be that different to eventing training. Just more sustained efforts at lower intensity whenever we do interval training, compared to shorter, faster intervals to prepare for cross country. But otherwise build up the mileage slowly, plenty of hill work etc.

And much the same for me!
I’ll head over to Patterfale’s thread now and we can both post on that one.

we are near bottom of reserve list but we’re told most reserves get a ride. And sometimes they all do.

 

[Caol Ila]

Sounds fun. I would love to do something like that.

 

[Inda]

It’s amazing. I did it a few years ago. I however got mocked by the regulars for the horse being too big. She was 16.1.

I’m still on images on Google if you search for it.

I plan to return to it once we have a decent number of endurance rides under our belt.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Lottie is 16.2! But why does that matter?

 

[Inda]

They like small Arabs below 15hh. We coped just fine, but it was a bit hairy at done downhill bits. I think local knowledge and barefoot help as we we picking our way down and they were flying past us. As a group of 3 16hh horses we placed 4-7 so alright really.

we laughed about taking the shire x the next year but I’m not convinced he wouldn’t have slipped.

 

[Peglo]

How exciting AE. I look forward to hearing about your training. (And hope you do get a ride )

 

[palo1]

Looking forward to hearing reports from HHO Man V Horse competitiors! I hope all came home safe and sound; I posted my crewing report on the Comp and Training thread for this weekend but would love to know how others found it yesterday.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

It must have been brutally hot!!!

 

[Patterdale]

Hi! I completed in top 20. Dashing out now but I’ll write a proper little report later. Safe to say endurance riding is NOT for me though!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Hi! I completed in top 20. Dashing out now but I’ll write a proper little report later. Safe to say endurance riding is NOT for me though!

Wow amazing!! Very very well done.

 

[Patterdale]

Ok here goes!

My first go at endurance, and it was HOT. Really hot! The course was gruelling too, it was really hard on the horses. Which I suppose is the point of it! But I didn’t enjoy it.

The following report is just my experiences and opinion. The event has been running a long time and attracts the same people again and again, so the fact that I didn’t enjoy it personally doesn’t mean it’s not a good event. Also I know nothing about endurance so things that seemed strange to me are possible NFE (normal for endurance!). So I’m not looking to slate the event at all.

The start was odd. We had to register with the horses and trot them up for the vet, then just hang around the start field with tacked up horses for 2 hours. I untacked mine and hand grazed him. Luckily he is quite level headed and just grazed, but my last horse would have burnt most of his adrenaline in the first hour alone just with the general atmosphere.
But possibly this is NFE!?

We started by following a pace car through the town, then out into open country. My horse was thrilled to bits about all of this, and I fought him loads in the first 2-3 miles to try and slow him down to pace it a bit more, then decided that was tiring him more so let him blast along.

Lots of it was hard stony forestry tracks which everyone just pounded along at top speed, lots at a canter. The whole of what I saw gave me the opinion that you can’t really succeed at it if you care much about your horses legs. But I don’t know how much longevity endurance horses have, so maybe I’m being judgemental here. Dunno.

My horse is very sure footed and good at going over pretty much any terrain. He has lots of experience at this, and jogs down tricky bits easily in good balance. Try and make him walk however, and it gets dangerous because he fights and doesn’t look where he’s going.
On 2 of these single track downhills, I got stuck behind a woman who gave me a mouthful of abuse when I asked if ok to pass (on a suitable area) when they were walking at snails pace. I found that endurance people do not like to be passed, especially by non endurance people! My cheery ‘don’t worry, you’ll pass me again on the flat it’s just that he gets a bit tricky if I try to walk down steep bits’ was met with another snarl.
Most people were very nice though and I had some good chats. But I would say the split was probably 80-20 nice to awful and it’s the awful and rude people that stick in your mind sadly.

It continued to be swelteringly hot, and with water stations every 3 miles I stopped at every one, got off and gave a full wash and drink to the horse, and got off up a lot of the hills to lead him. I didn’t see one other person do this. Maybe not NFE? But it was boiling and the horses were struggling. You could hear them breathing before their hooves as they came pounding up from behind.

Some of the horses were very fit and well ridden. I was told that the winners were FEI endurance riders.
Some of the horses were not at all fit, and some of the riders were downright FAT. There was one in particular who even the runners were commenting on, she was enormous and sat on a little spindly Arab who was clearly struggling as it heaved her up the hills. How she was allowed to compete I do not know. It was abuse.
There were quite a few overweight riders and there is no excuse for it on a 23 mile tough race. Offended be damned, it needs to be said.

My horse recovered well at both vet checks but by 2/3 of the way he was properly tired, and I walked most of it from there except when he offered trot. It was constant long, steep uphills, then long, steep downhills. Just up and down, up and down. I spent a long time at the last two water stations and the amount of riders who just came trotting or cantering through chasing a fast finish was ridiculous. I offered my sponge and assistance to one girl, whose horse had been struggling for some miles, but she just shouted no thanks and trotted the exhausted horse on through.

I finished in the top 20 but I think this is because he went very fast in the first 8 miles until he settled, because I looked after him so that he was only a few minutes in the vet checks, and because he’s naturally got a good fast walk. I certainly wasn’t chasing the time.
He was exhausted yesterday and today, just keeps yawning and stretching his neck like he’s aching. I feel awful about doing it tbh.
I really nursed him home and after a few miles walking he cantered happily through the finish but it was hard on them. Maybe because it was so hot?

Some lovely people helped me at the vet check though. I had no crew but with that in mind I’d walked and led the last mile so I could easily cool him on my own, but it was lovely to have some friendly and really efficient help. I’ve never had help at a competition so it was really nice.

The organisers were very friendly though as were most competitors. The stabling was dreadful and completely unsafe but that’s a thread of its own and not the organisers fault.

I think maybe in cooler weather and softer ground I might have had a different experience. I can see the appeal but I won’t be returning or seeking a career in endurance!

I feel like this has been really negative and I’m sorry for that, but I think just the hammered, knackered horses carrying fat riders put a real dampener on it for me.

But like I say -
- most people lovely and friendly
- organisers friendly
- route very scenic and definitely testing
- watering stations excellent
- volunteers brilliant
- runners all friendly
- just not for me!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

That feels like a very balanced and fair assessment.

I don't think I will enter next year and I am relieved we pulled out this year. Lottie will go all day in cooler conditions, but I don't llike the idea of hammering her legs all day long, whatever the weather.

 

[Steerpike]

Sorry man v horse is not like 'normal' endurance, it is a 26 mile race, please don't compare the 2 as the same!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

What is 'normal' endurance then? I thought it was long distance racing??

 

[Patterdale]

Like I say I know nothing about endurance. But I did assume that they would be similar, as they’re all long distance races? And it was at least 50% endurance people competing.

 

[Steerpike]

Yes a lot of endurance people do take part and the first 2 across the line have vast amounts of experience, in endurance there is a minimum and maximum speed for graded rides, novice is 8kph-15kph, open level is 9kph -18kph, you have to move up the levels which is 3 x novice rides and 2 x open level rides before you can go advanced and do a race ride, in race rides it is always multiple loops with the shorter loop being the last, you don't tend to find people racing until they reach the last loop. From what I see of man v horse anyone can enter with no qualifications/experience needed.

 

[FitzyFitz]

I would say Man v Horse is definitely not like the normal sort of endurance, and definitely wouldn't be one I'd choose as a first ride!

It's an event all of it's own, designed to be tough and fast and seems to often be ridden by people who don't normally do endurance either. There is crossover, but it's not the same!

Normally in (UK) endurance you can't do a first past the post open speed race until you are riding at an advanced level and it will be at least 80km (50 miles) in a day so the horses are FIT and have been doing it for a while at that point. Race rides are optional, you can do graded rides right up to the longest distances although most if not all of the 100 milers are FEI race rides due to the type of riders who actually compete at that level.

The vast majority of endurance rides are competitive, but you are more competing against yourself, placings in most classes only became a thing last year before that you just got your individual score and grade rosette. These rides are staggered start times, starting alone or in small groups, and have a minimum and maximum speed depending on your horses level, and you must pass a trot up and heartrate check before, after, and midway in longer classes. Crew points in normal endurance are full of people hanging around for a bit watering and sponging their horses, noone just whizzes through usually unless they are competing at a pretty high level and cant afford the time/horses doesnt need so many stops.

 

[Steerpike]

I would say Man v Horse is definitely not like the normal sort of endurance, and definitely wouldn't be one I'd choose as a first ride!

It's an event all of it's own, designed to be tough and fast and seems to often be ridden by people who don't normally do endurance either. There is crossover, but it's not the same!

Normally in (UK) endurance you can't do a first past the post open speed race until you are riding at an advanced level and it will be at least 80km (50 miles) in a day so the horses are FIT and have been doing it for a while at that point. Race rides are optional, you can do graded rides right up to the longest distances although most if not all of the 100 milers are FEI race rides due to the type of riders who actually compete at that level.

The vast majority of endurance rides are competitive, but you are more competing against yourself, placings in most classes only became a thing last year before that you just got your individual score and grade rosette. These rides are staggered start times, starting alone or in small groups, and have a minimum and maximum speed depending on your horses level, and you must pass a trot up and heartrate check before, after, and midway in longer classes. Crew points in normal endurance are full of people hanging around for a bit watering and sponging their horses, noone just whizzes through usually unless they are competing at a pretty high level and cant afford the time/horses doesnt need so many stops.

Better explanation than I could type!

 

[Patterdale]

Ah ok so totally different then. Thanks for explaining!

In that case I will email the organisers as something needs to change there. In any other sport the struggling horses would have been pulled up by the stewards. There should be a vet or at least a horsey steward at each watering station stopping the exhausted horses from being thrashed any further. And they need to be a LOT stricter on rider weights.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Thanks for the expkanation, that all makes sense.

 

[Art Nouveau]

A while ago I was toying with the idea of having a similar race on/around Kinder Scout as an anniversary event for the Mass Trespass in 1932. Your post has made me realise how much there is to think about.

It's a shame about the welfare issues, I guess with it starting fairly informally there hasn't been a point to stop and think about how it works for the horses. I think you should feed back your comments though, there may be things they can do to improve it but haven't thought of.

 

[paddy555]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/198022496532404/user/100093258125064

looking for this I found this FB group and there is a link to watch it on. Haven't done it yet but could be interesting.

Someone, maybe you Palo, quite a while ago posted a link that was the headcam footage of a rider. (last yrs race)

 

[Tiddlypom]

Quite a few comments from later riders on the man v horse FB page that the water stations had completely run out of water by the time they arrived. The stewards were blaming riders who were pouring buckets of water over their horses rather than sponging them off.

But in the extreme heat the horses needed to have copious amounts water poured over them, and the stations should never have been allowed to run out of water.

The whole thing sounds ghastly to me. Let the human runners run themselves into oblivion, but the horses need protecting.

 

[Patterdale]

Quite a few comments from riders on the man v horse FB page that the water stations had completely run out of water by the time they arrived. The stewards were blaming riders who were pouring buckets of water over their horses rather than sponging them off.

But in the extreme heat the horses needed to have copious amounts water poured over them, and the stations should never have been allowed to run out of water.

The whole thing sounds ghastly to me. Let the human runners run themselves into oblivion, but the horses need protecting.

Oh really?? There was loads when I was there. That’s dreadful if it ran out!

 

[Patterdale]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/198022496532404/user/100093258125064

looking for this I found this FB group and there is a link to watch it on. Haven't done it yet but could be interesting.

Someone, maybe you Palo, quite a while ago posted a link that was the headcam footage of a rider. (last yrs race)

That’s a scam group

 

[Tiddlypom]

Oh really?? There was loads when I was there. That’s dreadful if it ran out!

You weren't to know. There should have been enough water for all competitors for drinking and for washing off. The hot weather had been forecast for days.

I know the water stations for horses are difficult to keep supplied & by the time I arrived at the first few there was absolutely no water left for my boy & I know there were 6 other horses behind me. The stewards told me this was because some riders were tipping whole buckets of water over their horses & not just sponging them down. Could something be done about this?