Another Man V Horse entrant…

[Patterdale]

You weren't to know. There should have been enough water for all competitors. The hot weather had been forecast for days.

I know the water stations for horses are difficult to keep supplied & by the time I arrived at the first few there was absolutely no water left for my boy & I know there were 6 other horses behind me. The stewards told me this was because some riders were tipping whole buckets of water over their horses & not just sponging them down. Could something be done about this?

I was using two buckets at each one, sponging all over with one and throwing one over. I don’t think this was excessive!
It was boiling. There’s no excuse for running out of water. I can’t imagine how I would have felt to arrive at a water station that was dry!

Was this on the Facebook group?

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's on the Man v Horse community page. It's a public group, or at least I can read the posts without joining.


ETA

at the mid way vetting, it was managed by limiting it to half a bucket per crew as the water bowser there was incredibly small!

https://m.facebook.com/groups/141030842626278/permalink/6516933788369253/

 

[Peglo]

Sorry to hear you didn’t enjoy it much @Patterdale and can understand why. I naively assumed since people were running their own horses in a fun event they would’ve put welfare first. That is a shame. And shocking people were running exhausted horses on.

 

[FitzyFitz]

Ah ok so totally different then. Thanks for explaining!

In that case I will email the organisers as something needs to change there. In any other sport the struggling horses would have been pulled up by the stewards. There should be a vet or at least a horsey steward at each watering station stopping the exhausted horses from being thrashed any further. And they need to be a LOT stricter on rider weights.

isn't there 3 vet checks during the race?
I do feel bad for those who didn't get enough water, horses can use a colossal amount when ridden in the heat and it never should have run out, whether that means having more in the first place, or stricter doling out. Really unfortunate weather conditions.

I'm sorry it wasn't an enjoyable race for you, I admit despite competing in endurance for years (including race rides) i've never fancied man v horse!

 

[Dexter]

There are pictures of a tiny arab and a very large rider on the facebook group. How was that allowed in those sort of conditions for what is a very hard race?! They need to have a look at horse welfare before next year!

 

[ycbm]

There are pictures of a tiny arab and a very large rider on the facebook group. How was that allowed in those sort of conditions for what is a very hard race?! They need to have a look at horse welfare before next year!

Too right. Given the conditions at the weekend the race should have been stopped if water was not available. It sounds lucky nothing died of heat stroke.

 

[ester]

the grey Arab? Yeah nope

Running out of water is completely inexcusable

 

[Patterdale]

Most of the riders were ok, and most of the horses appeared fit for the race. But the minority who weren’t really soured it.

There were plenty of normal riders on normal horses who just took it very steady and had a nice day out. I think the weather was unfortunate, but there really needs to be more in place for welfare, and stopping riders from continuing on exhausted horses.

There was a vet check at the start, midway and finish. But you were allowed 30 minutes between finishing and presenting to the vets, by which time a completely exhausted boiling hot horse could have been cooled to a very tired warm horse.

If they set the finish time as when you passed the final vet, that might make some riders more considerate of bringing their horses home in a better state.

I don’t think the race itself is detrimental to welfare, but I think there are not nearly enough measures in place to protect welfare. How that very heavy girl was allowed to compete I do not know.

 

[Patterdale]

the grey Arab? Yeah nope

Running out of water is completely inexcusable

I would post a pic but I’ll get banned! There’s a video on the community group of her cantering it up a very steep hill. One that I and my 9st had got off to lead up!!

 

[ester]

Yes I did see that vid, didn’t have to scroll down far.

I think for it to work you have to have a few of the serious endurance racey people and the people out to enjoy a nice long hack but it becomes problematic if group B try to keep up with group A

 

[Steerpike]

Here is the hat cam of the 3rd placed rider

 

[Patterdale]

Here is the hat cam of the 3rd placed rider

I was chatting to him, he was very nice. I think he does it every year. My non-horsey friend who was running said they’d noticed the man with the ginger horse and orange tack because he was nice to his horse, so that was good.

The first few were all very professional and fit but I think they all do endurance and knew their stuff.

 

[Bernster]

Thx for the vid. The ground looks rock hard.

 

[Steerpike]

I was chatting to him, he was very nice. I think he does it every year. My non-horsey friend who was running said they’d noticed the man with the ginger horse and orange tack because he was nice to his horse, so that was good.

The first few were all very professional and fit but I think they all do endurance and knew their stuff.

Yes the first two riders have been on the British team, both have finished multiple 160km rides.

 

[tda]

Here is the hat cam of the 3rd placed rider

I thought it was Mike Mills, seen his videos before and recognised the orange pony and orange reins

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I would post a pic but I’ll get banned! There’s a video on the community group of her cantering it up a very steep hill. One that I and my 9st had got off to lead up!!

Just seen that, plus also her post with 3 photos.
I think a rule needs to be put in if the blooming organisers are lily livered about horse welfare!

 

[Flame_]

There are pictures of a tiny arab and a very large rider on the facebook group. How was that allowed in those sort of conditions for what is a very hard race?! They need to have a look at horse welfare before next year!

I just watched a couple of videos and thought, "what are people on about, fat riders, they look great to me" then I found the photos of the grey arab. Yeah, unacceptable, should certainly have been pulled and perhaps not even allowed to start. How can people not know they're flipping massive on their horse, let alone think it's then a good idea to take them to a long-distance race?

 

[palo1]

That’s a scam group

The video I posted much earlier in the year is not a scam group lol but a previous competitor's own video.

I agree with much of your report and having done Man V Horse, hoping it would be a decent hilly Welsh ride I found the constant forestry hard core and riders galloping miles over it absolutely grim. Other parts of the ride were fab but I was utterly mystified by the amount of forestry. I apologised to my horse many times for that even though I took it very slowly. I won't be doing the event again though I enjoy the day and I can see there are horses that are well prepared, excellently managed and finish sound and enthusiastic. I have been attending as crew for a few years and have competed so my experience is quite varied.

I don't think the event is ghastly though this year the registration and briefing was scheduled some hours before the start so yeah, a fair bit of hanging around which I would have just used to hand graze if I had been competing (that is what my friend did and it was good to get some grass in to her chap pre-race). It's designed to help horses get used to the atmosphere and start to chill a bit as the start in town can be very adrenalised! It's not at all like 'normal' endurance as others have said but a different cup of tea altogether. However in recent years it has seen some top level endurance riders entering. I have seen some of those poorly looked after tbh BUT this year the front runners did a great job. The rider in 3rd place (Mike Mills) is not usually an endurance competitor I don't think and the 5th placed rider definitely isn't. Mike Mills horse was beautifully looked after all day and was a good ad for amateur sport I think. Your comments about endurance riders not wanting to be passed made me laugh as I think this rings very true!! I have seen a couple of older local gents complete this race with ordinary horses in really fantastic style too so with decent fittening and sensible riding it is entirely possible for the horses to do this. There are places where really walking is the only sensible thing to do so it can be quite a strategic race. Having said all that I was completely horrified, revolted even, by some of the overweight riders; utterly grim, unnecessary and yes, abusive. I am going to write to the event organisers as those images are detrimental not only to the event but equestrianism generally - not to mention the absolute ethical NO to such poor practice. I have no idea why those riders were passed by the vet at the start. There has been quite a lot said about that in various groups and I haven't spoken to a single person there who thought that was ok but then I don't know the individuals on whom the discomfort is mostly focussed. WTAF though!!!

As for the water situation, there was plenty of water prepared but truly some riders didn't perhaps use it considerately. I mean my competing friend said that the water stations which are designed to be used for 'sloshing' were actually being used for buckets and buckets of water - as in a crewing point where crews are required to provide water for that. Considering the quite tricky location of some stations I think perhaps riders had over-ridden their horses so needed far more water than anticipated and/or were just being selfish. I have known similar at 'normal' endurance events where water stations are not for a full cooling but for on the go sloshing. That is usually made clear. There are always some riders who don't consider the horses behind them however.... and yes, very hot conditions.

It's really good to hear your experience and I think it's really fair. I do think that the relatively 'iconic' nature of the race can bring out the worst in some people - it can be a very exciting atmosphere. Every horse got home safe even those vetted out but yes, there are definitely things that could be improved. Personally I have no desire ever to trot my horse over roasting rubble or forestry motorway for hours so I won't be doing it again either. I sort of hope my friend has scratched that itch too now!!

 

[ester]

I just don't think in this weekends conditions I would have to be considerate in my use of water for cooling. I wouldn't consider it selfish I would expect sufficient water to be provided for the conditions by the organisers, that seems pretty basic if a horse needed buckets of water whatever the reason it should get it, rather than risk over heating as we all know that doesn't end well.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm somewhat aghast that some riders are being deemed selfish for using too much water .

FGS, just provide ample supplies of water for all to use as they wish. If providing such a basic necessity was beyond the organisers' capabilities during the forecast hot weather, then pull the event completely.

 

[palo1]

I just don't think in this weekends conditions I would have to be considerate in my use of water for cooling. I wouldn't consider it selfish I would expect sufficient water to be provided for the conditions by the organisers, that seems pretty basic.

Well yes, I agree that if your horse needs water, then you use it. I think perhaps there was a lack of communication about the use of water which was intended for sloshing on the go, not a full cooling. And there are a number of natural sources of water and water crossings where horses can drink and be fully cooled. I dunno, my friend who was probably riding after @Patterdale didn't have a problem and lots of horses were prepared with sponges for the streams etc. The location of water points is quite tricky and there was absolutely plenty of water at both of the full crewing stations. I think the water could equally be viewed as sufficient or insufficient. The organisers have been doing this event for years and years so presumably have a good level of experience about how much water is needed and it is certainly not in short supply generally in that part of Wales lol.

 

[palo1]

I'm somewhat aghast that some riders are being deemed selfish for using too much water .

FGS, just provide ample supplies of water for all, to use as they wish.

Not my words, but that of other riders who were watching others using it.

 

[palo1]

Just to add that the horse coming in 2nd place is 25 years old. Her rider and crew are exceptional and the mare clearly enjoyed her day out!! As did her team.

 

[Patterdale]

I just don't think in this weekends conditions I would have to be considerate in my use of water for cooling. I wouldn't consider it selfish I would expect sufficient water to be provided for the conditions by the organisers, that seems pretty basic if a horse needed buckets of water whatever the reason it should get it, rather than risk over heating as we all know that doesn't end well.

I think what palo says is right about it being designed for sloshing on the go only. At the vet check there was lots of grumbling about the water running low because some early riders had been throwing it liberally over their Arabs to compensate for how fast they had been ridden. Only hearsay but I heard a few grumbles. Like multiple crew members throwing bucket after bucket over to get the heart rate down and get going again. When they could have ridden their horses more considerately to not get them into such a state to start with.
Only hearsay, I will repeat - but doesn’t seem unbelievable to me.

A few of the water stations were in very remote areas. It wouldn’t have been feasible to get more water there, and like I say 2 buckets at each was adequate to refresh my horse as a pit stop. They weren’t supposed to be full cooling stations.

 

[Patterdale]

Just to add that the horse coming in 2nd place is 25 years old. Her rider and crew are exceptional and the mare clearly enjoyed her day out!! As did her team.

Oh wow!!!!
The two front runners did seem very professional and they had a lot of support too. 25 is amazing.

 

[ester]

I guess if you're making it a race you have to expect people to be pushing and using the tools. like water that help them to do so.

 

[palo1]

I think what palo says is right about it being designed for sloshing on the go only. At the vet check there was lots of grumbling about the water running low because some early riders had been throwing it liberally over their Arabs to compensate for how fast they had been ridden. Only hearsay but I heard a few grumbles. Like multiple crew members throwing bucket after bucket over to get the heart rate down and get going again. When they could have ridden their horses more considerately to not get them into such a state to start with.
Only hearsay, I will repeat - but doesn’t seem unbelievable to me.

A few of the water stations were in very remote areas. It wouldn’t have been feasible to get more water there, and like I say 2 buckets at each was adequate to refresh my horse as a pit stop. They weren’t supposed to be full cooling stations.

On the Man Vs Horse community fb page Kayleigh Tonkins has posted some videos of her ride (I don't know her) and they give a good sense of the terrain, speed etc and the camaraderie between riders.

 

[palo1]

Well the crews are required to take water, as much as they think they will need, to the vetting stations at the mid-way and finish. There was plenty more water there too and people who were able to bring more up to the mid-way and it was directly piped at the finish. I saw a few crews use all of their water and then more. One of the 'problems' was riders with no crew and no water of their own bringing horses into the mid-way vetting, using other people's prepared water for their over-ridden horses and then the crews needing to refill their supplies very quickly. That was frustrating and I was very glad that 'my' prepared water was not called on as I would then have potentially had to dash to fill up just as my rider came in needing cooling. That certainly made a few folks tetchy!! I really think the organisers have to go back to making it a condition of entry to have a crew so that in difficult conditions you have enough people with enough stuff at the right time. In really awful weather that would/could be even worse as horses get very chilled easily on that high, exposed vetting mid-way and can tie up if not kept warm. Not having rugs etc provided would be more difficult than nabbing plentiful water.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Just provide plenty enough water rather than dictate how people should use it .

Yes, I agree that all riders should have a crew with them, but to be sniffy about riders using 'too much' water on a boiling hot day is just ridiculous. Re route the whole thing if necessary so that plentiful water is available for all.

Insiders can be unaware of just how unreasonable their nit picking looks.

The large rider with the grey arab was bemoaning how she looks 'exhausted' in all the pro pics . No sh1t, sherlock. Her diamond of a very lightweight horse is 17yo. That combination should not have been allowed to start on welfare grounds.

 

[palo1]

Just provide plenty enough water rather than dictate how people should use it .

Yes, I agree that all riders should have a crew with them, but to be sniffy about riders using 'too much' water on a boiling hot day is just ridiculous. Re route the whole thing if necessary so that plentiful water is available for all.

Insiders can be unaware of just how unreasonable their nit picking looks.

The large rider with the grey arab was bemoaning how she looks 'exhausted' in all the pro pics . No sh1t, sherlock. Her diamond of a very lightweight horse is 17yo. That combination should not have been allowed to start on welfare grounds.

Having crewed at the beginning, middle and end and having spoken to a number of riders throughout the stretch of the pack I think there was plenty of water tbh; possibly the way that people used it meant that it wasn't always as handy as people wanted it to be. There are plenty of cooling and watering opportunities on the course but I expect if issues are raised the organisers will see what they can do about that. There are many, many runners and they need loads of water too so it's not as if water isn't a massive consideration all through the race. Not sure what you mean by insiders nit-picking (though arriving on a very hot, tired horse and using up other's prepared electrolytes, re-covery mash, wash off water etc is just inconsiderate) but I think a huge number of people are unhappy with the issue of overweight riders. If you watch many of the videos there is a good atmosphere with mostly really happy horses and riders and being there is rather different to some of the reports (not @Patterdale 's as that seems extremely fair).