ANOTHER Parelli video

[touchstone]

I class myself as an open minded person. Being open minded also means questioning and examining closely, not following blindly.

I have a good bond with my horse, have built up a good relationship and have a horse that trusts her handler with not a single carrot stick in sight and no whacking in the face with a lunge line. The same goes for the dozens of other horses I have handled/schooled/ridden over many years. I have coped remarkably well without parelli, just a good dose of common sense and compassion, as well as thinking outside the box in some cases, is all that is needed with most horses.

Watching the parelli vids confirms to me that it is something I would never subject my horse to and I feel sad that there are folks who think that rough handling in the guise of natural training is an okay thing. It may be that you have used parelli in a sympathetic way, but I could never condone or follow the horsemanship of someone who confuses and beats a blind horse.

 

[jsr]

Yeahhhhh he looks really thrilled in the photos....

 

[parelligirl]

Out of interest Parelli girl what is your take on the awful videos of Pat and Linda basically confusing and intimidating horses? I am genuinely interested.

Oh and numnahs made a good starting point for saddles but so does using a towel if you don't have a numnah either. There are always alternatives.

I'm glad you are happy with the way these games work with your horse and I get the feeling you are miles apart from the way Pat and Linda operate but after seeing the videos surely you can understand the backlash on here?

Unfortuinately youtube is blocked at my work (and probably H&H soon now...) so i cannot see the videos that are being posted

But my outtake... I didnt like the videos of the FOTH with Catwalk - and considered leaving Parelli... But that i realised that i only have to do with my horse what i want to. I dont have to do what somone else does.

It was then hard being classed as "parelli"... but thats just a label. Parelli has taught me a different way to be with my horse - I was a very BHS person and was at a yard that i only saw very strict rulings about what people did with their horses... people thought i was nuts the day i had the balls to roll up with a big orange stick and a wiggly rope - But i just felt like i wanted to do it

A lot of what is posted on here are mostly the bad videos which i get confused at myself asking "well hang on.. why did they do that.. they could have tried this.. or this.. or that..."

But... Who am i to tell other people what to do with their horses? Its up to them?

But i do feel that most people ( i say most not all..) on here think we all are "Traditional haters" and think that riding a horse in a saddle and a bridle is evil...

In that case.. please allow me to be a breath of fresh air to you.

I do not have all the answers but I will tell you my honest opinion and try my best to accomodate your questions if you have them

 

[1973horse]

 

[touchstone]

"But my outtake... I didnt like the videos of the FOTH with Catwalk - and considered leaving Parelli... But that i realised that i only have to do with my horse what i want to. I dont have to do what somone else does"


But surely the problem is that by promoting his methods you are condoning this treatment? Someone only has to watch one of those videos or demonstrations and think that it is an acceptable way to treat a horse and then go and do the same thing at home.

 

[HashRouge]

Oh god this is the pretty grey Arab getting tormented by Linda Parelli video, isn't it? That woman is a nightmare!! I've got a friend who used Parelli methods whilst backing and bringing on her own Arab. She's a wonderful horse woman, and her horse is one of the best mannered, sweetest guys I know. Yet Linda Parelli is married to the guru himself and she still manages to balls it up as badly as this

 

[paddi22]

you seem to have a good relationship and be fairly balanced in your view, but i don't understand how you can promote parelli so much if you have any qualms about his teachings. could you wholeheartedly encourage someone to pick it and who might then go on to treat their horse the way catwalk or that semi blind horse was treated?

i honestly look at some of the parelli videos and im horrified. the loading one is a perfect example. we dealt with loads of bad loaders and its kinder and less stressful to use patience and calmness. the difference between the monty roberts loading demo and the parelli one is amazing. i don't see any situation where hitting a horse on the face is acceptable.

 

[paddi22]

the main thing that freaks me out about the videos is that they seem to lose patience and get angry with the horses.

 

[touchstone]

I came across this on another forum:-





--------------------------
Parelli and helmets

I am sending this to a couple different groups as I feel it is important to get the word out to potential Parelli followers. As many of you know, I am currently recovering from a brain injury from a fall from a horse this summer. This was a green horse but he spooked while I was getting off, something any horse could do and the odds of a serious accident on a horse finally caught up with me. One thing I have noticed is an ad for Parelli and Linda is jumping a horse bareback and no helmet. Also while I was bedridden I watch a couple of his episodes and he had a a young person who was physically disabled riding without a helmet and it was obvious her balance was not good. I sent a letter to Parellis asking them to please advocate the use of helmets. This is their reply, which I think is totally STUPID coming from professionals.

Patti - w.wa

Hi Patti,

Thank you for taking the time to write us. We understand your views and concerns. As quoted by the faculty at our ranch:

"You are quite right - helmets are fabulous things and they save many lives. Tragically though, people who ARE wearing helmets also die or suffer serious head injuries in accidents with horses.

Our program is intended to address the safety problem at its root - which is behavioral - rather than address the symptoms of it. Our message is about developing the relationship with the horse, and the savvy level of the rider, so that unsafe behavior is addressed long before the rider gets on the horse - rather than allowing the unsafe situations to continue to occur and hope that the helmet, body protector, etc, will protect us from the consequences.

The reason you do not see our people wearing helmets is because we try to teach people that rather than be brave because they are wearing a a helmet to protect them, they would be better off not riding until their horse is behaving safely.

People have called us brave for not wearing helmets, but we say they are a lot braver than we are. We would not get on their horse until we had addressed the issues that cause it to behave in unsafe ways.

We hope this helps,

From the Faculty, Parelli Centers"



I'm sorry, but what an idiotic attitude to have! Give me traditional BHS anyday rather than stupidity. Even the best behaved horse can have a rider fall from it or fall itself.


________________

 

[Cadfael&Coffee]

Wow. Just... Wow.

That is one confused horse!!!

 

[paddi22]

that helmet thing is one of the most ridiculous things ive ever read. horses are not robots, there is no way to desensitise them to everything. what about if they accidentally trip or slip and ditch the rider? sounds like an absolute load of bravado rubbish. it seems like a complete scam to make people think they have to do endless work on their horse, and keep buying dvds and stuff from their website.

why wouldn't they just encourage peopleto wear hats, even just to be on the safe side? ridiculous. i hope they sleep well at night when their followers get brain injuries through absolute stupidity. horses are unpredictable things, you can't just cut off all their natural instincts.

 

[Jim Moriarty]

the big problem is...

Is that most of you on here are very set in your ways and you do not WANT to learn more or be open.

Thus sprach the fangirl...

 

[horsey mad matt]

i like monty roberts he is very good in my eyes!!! he involves no violence whatsoever etc. but i really don't like people hitting horses around the face cos it often makes them headshy etc, why couldn't they just tap it with the stick on the chest or something wrather than wracking it around the face with a heavy clip (and i tell you they are very heavy).

 

[Tiny Fluffy Coblet]

@ touchstone >

I have never had a head injury off a horse however I have had the most sweet natured and genuine horse jumping well within it's capability make a mistake and pitch me over it's head (also due to my own mistake of getting a little in front of the movement so when he checked on landing I went out the front door).

I landed on my head. On a rock in the school. I was wearing a hat and walked away with a headache and a sore neck, if I hadn't been? well I don't really like to think about that. That horse had no 'issues' was not frightened, was not naughty, was doing his best for me and between us we screwed up. It happens.

I hope you have recovered well from your injuries as I do know how serious they can be.

As to Pepperoni and his 'not needing a hat' well if he was one person I'd say carry on, it's your head but with thousands of amatuers following him blindly? he is bang out of order.

 

[touchstone]

@ touchstone >

I have never had a head injury off a horse however I have had the most sweet natured and genuine horse jumping well within it's capability make a mistake and pitch me over it's head (also due to my own mistake of getting a little in front of the movement so when he checked on landing I went out the front door).

I landed on my head. On a rock in the school. I was wearing a hat and walked away with a headache and a sore neck, if I hadn't been? well I don't really like to think about that. That horse had no 'issues' was not frightened, was not naughty, was doing his best for me and between us we screwed up. It happens.

I hope you have recovered well from your injuries as I do know how serious they can be.

As to Pepperoni and his 'not needing a hat' well if he was one person I'd say carry on, it's your head but with thousands of amatuers following him blindly? he is bang out of order.

No, no it wasn't me that fell off - I came across this on another forum.

It just shows what can happen so easily though, and for them to have a disabled person with poor balance riding without a hat, well, says it all really.

 

[mcnaughty]

Parelligirl - I can say only one thing really .... you must have the patience of a saint for putting up with this verbal abuse!

Come on guys - leave her alone! How can any of you say that the Parelli way is a short cut and does not use patience only has to watch her video. That must have taken months to achieve! Good on you - you obviously have a wonderful relationship with your horse that you must be very proud of.

Personally I take most of the Parelli way with a pinch of salt - take what is needed and use some of it. It is unfortunate that the grey arab video started where it did because I believe the horse had serious issues of running it's owner over and the chicken flapping and rein cracking was to encourage it to respect it's owner's space. This was not shown. Monty uses a very similar method with is dualy headcollar (obviously without hitting the horse in the face with the clip...) whereby the rope and headcollar are used in quite an agressive manner to tell the horse to back off.

 

[pheline]

This makes me want to be sick. When she takes over she yanks the horse to come forward them wallops it over the head when it does as she tells it to?
Ergh.
and notice at 7:07 how the horse flinches, when she moves her arm slightly. This is natural horsemanship, it's just bullying and plain cruelty.
I'd like to put a rope round her neck and pull her about and slap her in the face a few times.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I came across this on another forum:-





--------------------------
Parelli and helmets

I am sending this to a couple different groups as I feel it is important to get the word out to potential Parelli followers. As many of you know, I am currently recovering from a brain injury from a fall from a horse this summer. This was a green horse but he spooked while I was getting off, something any horse could do and the odds of a serious accident on a horse finally caught up with me. One thing I have noticed is an ad for Parelli and Linda is jumping a horse bareback and no helmet. Also while I was bedridden I watch a couple of his episodes and he had a a young person who was physically disabled riding without a helmet and it was obvious her balance was not good. I sent a letter to Parellis asking them to please advocate the use of helmets. This is their reply, which I think is totally STUPID coming from professionals.

Patti - w.wa

Hi Patti,

Thank you for taking the time to write us. We understand your views and concerns. As quoted by the faculty at our ranch:

"You are quite right - helmets are fabulous things and they save many lives. Tragically though, people who ARE wearing helmets also die or suffer serious head injuries in accidents with horses.

Our program is intended to address the safety problem at its root - which is behavioral - rather than address the symptoms of it. Our message is about developing the relationship with the horse, and the savvy level of the rider, so that unsafe behavior is addressed long before the rider gets on the horse - rather than allowing the unsafe situations to continue to occur and hope that the helmet, body protector, etc, will protect us from the consequences.

The reason you do not see our people wearing helmets is because we try to teach people that rather than be brave because they are wearing a a helmet to protect them, they would be better off not riding until their horse is behaving safely.

People have called us brave for not wearing helmets, but we say they are a lot braver than we are. We would not get on their horse until we had addressed the issues that cause it to behave in unsafe ways.

We hope this helps,

From the Faculty, Parelli Centers"

--------------------

I'm sorry, but what an idiotic attitude to have! Give me traditional BHS anyday rather than stupidity. Even the best behaved horse can have a rider fall from it or fall itself.


________________

They are idiots.

I'd still wear my hat, even if I was riding an RDA plod.

 

[kickonchaps]

The no-need-for-a-helmet thing does go some way to explain how Parelli came about... maybe a (super safe, amazingly trustworthy) horse dropped Pat on his head as a child

 

[fluffalina]

[

Next thing you'll be saying Cesar Milan is the god of dog training? [/QUOTE]

Whoa....steady on!!!!! Cesar is fab!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kokopelli]

Lol just had images of these people trying that with Koko!!! :L :L

He would have put them in their place, damn I wish he was still here to see PP's bruised ego and brokeness after K was through with him.

Andy spooner you sound very ignorant, do you honestly see nothing wrong with this video?

 

[Bedlam]

Yes, not actual hitting this time but a lot of undue pressure on a clearly insecure and frightened horse from someone seemingly more interested in showing off than the job at hand.

With all due respect, it is rather unfair of you to make a statement then claim you will never post or reply to others opinions.

I do wish people would read posts properly. I never said I will never post or reply to others opinions - and please don't use the deceptive phrase 'with all due respect'. Whenever anyone uses this phrase it actually means 'I have no respect for you or your opinions and I am about to say something incredibly condescending'.

I chose to leave this thread at 1.00am this morning because it was 1.00am and I could have predicted the way this Parelli thread was going to go. They always, always degenerate into people over generalising and making huge sweeping statements about others ways of doing things and always end up abusing one or two people who try to defend what they do or what they think.

It's generally just not worth it unless I fancy creating an argument - which this morning I did not.

 

[Bedlam]

Parelli the only method that works There is no quick fix to working with problem horses and every horse is diffrent but there is NEVER anyneed to use agression and brute force to handle horses. The only thing Parelli achieves is making the horse more scared of you than it is of anything else and that to me is not a true bond. I'm sorry but this is how I feel. One day they'll come across a pony like Herbs who won't stand for there S**t. Although they probably have but won't tell anyone it's happened because as we all know Parelli works for EVERY horse [/QUOTE]




Again - pleas read my post. I said that the only 100% way I have witnessed was basically what Parelli does. And that is true - I have a friend (a BHSI) who can load absolutely anything (or has been able to up til now - hence the 100% claim.....!!!). She's not a paid up Parelli follower, but the methods she uses are basically the same as his. She loads from a halter and long line with no food, no lunge lines, no whips, no shouting, no endless meaningless praise for no effort, no nothing, just pressure and release and good timing.

Please do not belittle my experience or roll your eyes at something you have misunderstood in my post.

I'm sure that there are a lot of people out there getting it wrong when they play around with Parelli, or Natural Horsemanship or whatever, just as there are people getting dressage wrong, or racing wrong, or hacking wrong or anything else to do with horses wrong for that matter. I'm glad that your pony now lives with an understanding owner and has done so well - he is a credit to you.

 

[Bedlam]

Not everyone here is anti Parelli, there are quite a few though, lol. Ignore the stupid and idiotic comments of the real anti's, there are a lot of pro Parelli people on the site, just don't be bullied into leaving.

Again - sorry but please read - I wrote that I was leaving this now, not leaving the forum lol!

I can assure you that I'm not that thin skinned!

 

[Bedlam]

Sorry I completely disagree with the statement that the Parelli method is the only one that works. There is NO substitute for patience. I have had one or two horses in my lifetime and have had to teach several to load, quietly and patiently. All without fail became good loaders.

It is this 'only Parelli methods will work' attitude that alienates people tbh.

Last one for now - I replied to this in my post above. Patience is admirable and required when loading. Please see my earlier comments.

 

[lhotse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAwlmv25miU&feature=related
Here's a great example of how to beat a horse on first acquaintance, WTF

Twisting his chestnuts now.......

 

[BarmyC]

Without getting into the whole parelli debate what on earth was going on in that leading from a trot video??

Was it just me or was there something really wrong with the big chesnuts trot??

 

[Amaranta]

I came across this on another forum:-





--------------------------
Parelli and helmets

I am sending this to a couple different groups as I feel it is important to get the word out to potential Parelli followers. As many of you know, I am currently recovering from a brain injury from a fall from a horse this summer. This was a green horse but he spooked while I was getting off, something any horse could do and the odds of a serious accident on a horse finally caught up with me. One thing I have noticed is an ad for Parelli and Linda is jumping a horse bareback and no helmet. Also while I was bedridden I watch a couple of his episodes and he had a a young person who was physically disabled riding without a helmet and it was obvious her balance was not good. I sent a letter to Parellis asking them to please advocate the use of helmets. This is their reply, which I think is totally STUPID coming from professionals.

Patti - w.wa

Hi Patti,

Thank you for taking the time to write us. We understand your views and concerns. As quoted by the faculty at our ranch:

"You are quite right - helmets are fabulous things and they save many lives. Tragically though, people who ARE wearing helmets also die or suffer serious head injuries in accidents with horses.

Our program is intended to address the safety problem at its root - which is behavioral - rather than address the symptoms of it. Our message is about developing the relationship with the horse, and the savvy level of the rider, so that unsafe behavior is addressed long before the rider gets on the horse - rather than allowing the unsafe situations to continue to occur and hope that the helmet, body protector, etc, will protect us from the consequences.

The reason you do not see our people wearing helmets is because we try to teach people that rather than be brave because they are wearing a a helmet to protect them, they would be better off not riding until their horse is behaving safely.

People have called us brave for not wearing helmets, but we say they are a lot braver than we are. We would not get on their horse until we had addressed the issues that cause it to behave in unsafe ways.

We hope this helps,

From the Faculty, Parelli Centers"



I'm sorry, but what an idiotic attitude to have! Give me traditional BHS anyday rather than stupidity. Even the best behaved horse can have a rider fall from it or fall itself.


________________

What an irresponsible response from Parelli, idiots have such a lack of empathy with the horse that they have forgotten that horses can also make mistakes, Jeeeeeesus I can hear their followers now "my horse is soooo well behaved I don't need to wear a hat"

 

[team barney]

Was it just me or was there something really wrong with the big chesnuts trot??

Quit a few of the horses in the DVD are lame

 

[Amaranta]

I completely agree... So why would people who practise parelli have to be tarnished with the same brush?

Ultimately the "carrot stick" we use is a peice of fibreglass.. What would be the difference in a baseball bat or a cricket bat?

I on the other hand do whats best for my horse - It would be nice to come to this forum and not feel like im doing something wrong.

Im very shocked and surprised at how much people are so closed doors.

Parelligirl I am sure you have an excellent relationship with your horse, you, you see seem to have a more balanced view than some of the parelli followers that have been on here, I don't have a problem with a parelli follower with your attitude, what I have a problem with are those who have come on here, called us all stupid idiots and told us we don't train our horses properly because the only way to train a horse is the parelli way.

I will say though that neither PP or the nasty Linda would get anywhere near any of my horses, I simply cannot see any benefit in smacking a horse in the face with a heavy clip on the end of a rope, not unless you were trying to make it headshy. Neither can I get the poor unfortunate Catwalk out of my mind