Another reason to boycott Baileys...

[FlyingCircus]

Understand your point TPO, but I think any change is good change. 24,000 people follow the Baileys facebook page. Those people may see the post (which is quite active at current) and not send their horses to her to suffer the same.

 

[Follysmum]

Snuggy hoods always have pics of her and her horses so another sponsor

 

[Tiddlypom]

Going back to fat horses in showing.

There is already a points system for most if not all showing judging, would be an easy one to add.

It should be straightforward to add a ‘condition score’ assessment to the existing scoring system. Perhaps full marks for a condition score between x and y, deductions for minor deviations from x and y, but horses with major deviations to be sent out of the ring. A vet could be the independent arbiter on the day at affiliated classes and qualifiers.


There isn’t a pic of an ‘extremely fat’ horse at score 9, but Jovian as he was at HOYS 2017 would IMHO have scored greater than an 8.

 

[Goldenstar]

What’s needed imv in showing ( and I freely admit it’s not my thing too old school , too old fashioned horse world who you know counts and I freely admit I don’t see the appeal ) is a root and branch reform of the judging to make truly properly muscled and developed horses win we don’t need the horses who look ready to go round Badminton but I think for example, a hunter should like a hunter looks in September when it’s ready to start it’s seasons work .
It would be relatively easy as it’s already been pointed out to tweak the way the points get awarded to reward the right sort of condition in the horses .
It would however benefit older horses who have had more time to develop muscle bulk through work not sure if that’s an issue I don’t know enough about it .

 

[Goldenstar]

All judges perhaps should do the body scoring course .
I did one based on the chart above which I think is easier than the 1 to 5 chart that’s sometimes used .
When I did my course it was emphasised that you need to consider what’s muscle bulk and what’s fat .
A horse carrying very little fat can be no concern if there’s appropriate reasons ,the example used was a horse photographed the day after it won the gold cup , at the other extremely fully trained dressage horses can be a very round shape and have not a lot of fat which is more what showing judges would need to assess
They would need to allow for age not sure how this could be done in context of a showing competition.

 

[dorsetladette]

Going back to fat horses in showing.



It should be straightforward to add a ‘condition score’ assessment to the existing scoring system. Perhaps full marks for a condition score between x and y, deductions for minor deviations from x and y, but horses with major deviations to be sent out of the ring. A vet could be the independent arbiter on the day at affiliated classes and qualifiers.

View attachment 38361
There isn’t a pic of an ‘extremely fat’ horse at score 9, but Jovian as he was at HOYS 2017 would IMHO have scored greater than an 8.

He was definitely a lot fatter than 8!

You could make these breed specific and have the societies (with independent experienced vet) publish and implement them.

 

[Chippers1]

I took mine to two local shows in April this year, after I had upped our fitness work (and also bearing in mind coming out of winter time) and got told at both shows he was too thin. He was a BCS 4 but always runs light right at the end of his ribs, almost like his rib cage it too wide (it's hard to describe!) but he's the same most of the year round in that area, he looked fine everywhere else and was very fit. These were two WH classes at two different shows, two different judges. He just wasn't a fat pudding and could easily do a days hunting, unlike the other competitors! I really took it to heart at the time but I know now that he was better off as he lives out and over summer didn't get too fat or laminitis, after having a very laminitic pony before him i'm always really careful with weight.
I'm glad bailey's withdrew their sponsorship, obesity in the horse world is so often overlooked and it shouldn't be, it's worse for horses than other animals as they have to carry a person too!

 

[Rowreach]

Reading through the comments on the Baileys page, it is interesting to see who is supporting her - one can assume they adopt the same sort of methods on their own yards.

And as for the photo of another professional that someone has seen fit to post on there, I can't comment specifically about that rider, but one fraction of a second caught in a still image is not the same imo as a piece of video ...

 

[milliepops]

Indeed, Rowreach. And even if it WAS proof of a similar practice (which I absolutely do not believe it to be so) that is still not a defense of what LR posted! 2 wrongs don't make a right, & all that.

 

[ecb89]

Considering the amount of feed she must shovel into her horses her feed bill now going to be massive. No other feed company will want to touch her

 

[milliepops]

Considering the amount of feed she must shovel into her horses her feed bill now going to be massive. No other feed company will want to touch her

someone earlier remarked that memories are short these days. I do think this will blow over and then someone else will step into the gap. she's a successful competitor and that is gold dust for some companies.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

One thing that will come out of this is that everyone is now going to be super obsessive about what is being put on their social media pages.

I know I am careful with the content I put on the yards page but thats more because the world doesnt need to know a horse has died at home or got a serious injury. 95% of what we do is quite happily put out there in the big wide world!

I am so glad Baileys have finally seen sense and ditched her!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I wonder if the drop of the sponsorship will be covered by H&H, after all, it IS equine news......

 

[Rowreach]

One of the comments:

"it's just a cob in a roller with his head tied down with side reins/bungee"

 

[milliepops]

One thing that will come out of this is that everyone is now going to be super obsessive about what is being put on their social media pages.

but that's just the thing! the H&H article linked earlier has the following quote from LR:

I think people who show professionally or judge, or have anything to do with the horse world, should be very careful with social media.

that's what's so baffling, to those of us non- showing pros, who find this method of "training" to be pretty unpleasant. If she knows she should be careful, why post that. You would have thought she would have known at least SOME people would take issue with it.

 

[Rowreach]

but that's just the thing! the H&H article linked earlier has the following quote from LR:



that's what's so baffling, to those of us non- showing pros, who find this method of "training" to be pretty unpleasant. If she knows she should be careful, why post that. You would have thought she would have known at least SOME people would take issue with it.

I bet it wasn't her who posted the video. I wonder if there is a groom's vacancy on her yard today ...

 

[Tiddlypom]

I wonder if the drop of the sponsorship will be covered by H&H, after all, it IS equine news......

Well, H&H hasn’t yet commented on the two recent animal cruelty guilty verdicts passed on the Kimblewick Hunt employees who were filmed poking a fox out of an artificial earth as hounds approached, so best not hold our breath...

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I bet it wasn't her who posted the video. I wonder if there is a groom's vacancy on her yard today ...

This. She probably doesn't do the majority of the social media on her account. She will have a member of staff on the admin team on her fb page that does most of it. Probably her newest young recruit that she has brain washed and now more than likely sacked!

 

[milliepops]

well that again points back to what she apparently told H&H about needing to be careful with social media.
If you want to use questionable practices behind closed doors, and not have that info get out, then you need to control the output yourself

 

[Silver Clouds]

Like others I am amazed that some people (on the wider internet) find tying down and intentional obesity acceptable.

I was speaking to a couple of vets at Windsor horse show this year whilst we watched some of the showing classes. I expressed my amazement that horses/ponies could be made that fat without getting laminitis and the vets said that the ones you see in the ring are only those who have somehow managed to so far escape it, and that there is a large amount of industry 'wastage' in terms of animals that get horrendous cases of laminitis before they reach ideal show 'condition' (a ridiculous use of the term as they actually mean obesity). They were also aware of some producers giving footy horses bute to hide clinical signs of laminitis. Both of the vets (an older man and a younger woman) said that the show yards in their areas worked their way through vets quite quickly as they don't like to be told the welfare implications resulting from their feeding and training 'methods'.

 

[Gloi]

I'm on a welsh cob page and its very disheartening to see people complain when the vet has said their horse is obese and people pile on saying it can't be fat look at this show horse etc. and welsh cob are supposed to look like that. Amateur and impressionable people use horses in the ring as examples.

The Fell pony page is similar

 

[Leo Walker]

Theres some awful posts from young, as in late teens/early 20s, up and coming show riders that I have seen, that condone this behaviour. According to one, if you haven't won at HOYs how very dare you criticise as you have no idea what you are talking about. She goes on to say that this is online bullying of LR...

 

[Rowreach]

Theres some awful posts from young, as in late teens/early 20s, up and coming show riders that I have seen, that condone this behaviour. According to one, if you haven't won at HOYs how very dare you criticise as you have no idea what you are talking about. She goes on to say that this is online bullying of LR...

Yes, and the degrees of abuse comment - people who have seen worse abuse therefore what LR is doing isn't so bad by comparison

 

[cobgoblin]

Someone on the Bailey's Facebook page has asked Bailey's to contact them for some 'real abuse of horses that they sponsor'.

 

[rascal]

That photo and video were disgusting, Baileys did well to end their association with her,
We used to show our Appaloosa cross, but was often told he was not carrying enough condition for showing classes. I blame the judges who place these horses.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’ve just ventured over to the Baileys FB page and read some of the comments. I agree, many are sad and depressing.

 

[Follysmum]

One thing that will come out of this is that everyone is now going to be super obsessive about what is being put on their social media pages.

I know I am careful with the content I put on the yards page but thats more because the world doesnt need to know a horse has died at home or got a serious injury. 95% of what we do is quite happily put out there in the big wide world!

I am so glad Baileys have finally seen sense and ditched her!

This ! Social media can be a useful tool for a business but sometimes when you put something out there it’s out there for everyone to see Permanently

 

[Tiddlypom]

Certain posts have been removed from this thread under clause 4.4 (potentially defamatory).

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Certain posts have been removed from this thread under clause 4.4 (potentially defamatory).

Really?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Photos, and another one but I’m not sure which one as it’s vanished . Ah yes, worked it out.