Another yard closure

[sbloom]

I don't think this is true. That was what we were told, but I think it was actually a policy to dump the responsibility for the cost of maintenance on people who were never otherwise going to move out of a council house. I think it backfired big time on the people who most need council housing by removing council house availability.

It bought votes and reduced the ability of workers to strike.

But it did also help a good number of people who would never otherwise have afforded a house, and one of the principles of a civilised society is to try to improve the chances of those who are poorest

Isn't a decent place to live for life better, ultimately, then a bit of cash and massive risk? I do feel we've lost sight of the good stuff we developed after WW2.

Huge amounts of money is taken from working people to run the housing benefit system but it’s not a guarantee on a basically safe home .

But it could be. HB/UC is bleeding public finances dry as it's far more expensive to pay private landlords than the council paying themselves. It makes no sense. It's a political choice. Norwich are planning more council houses, I watch with interest.

 

[JFTDWS]

I've seen this in the South near where my SiL lived in Kent. I don't understand why it's so patchy. Up here, every new estate has open space, mature trees and children's play areas. The newest development has had to finish tarmac surfacing a new cycle path that was financed by other developments, and build a primary school.

The South East is dreadful, why can't the planners exercise the powers they have?
.

Well, to be fair, most of the estates do have open spaces of some description and children's play areas, because those are cheap, visible, easy to achieve, token gestures. Like swift bricks - put one of them in your new build and pretend that's a substitute for the multitude of habitats you bulldozed to make it - even though half of them are put in upside down or without sufficient drops for swifts to actually use them. But when you look at the fines imposed for failing to comply with legislation relating to the ecological consequences, they're nothing compared to the profits on developments, so who cares, right? Actual meaningful investment in essential infrastructure, environmental mitigations and usable access for transport other than personal cars just doesn't happen.

And, to be fair, even if local planners veto developments, that decision gets appealed centrally and over-ruled. Central government policy. This is what people have voted for, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[Art Nouveau]

But it did also help a good number of people who would never otherwise have afforded a house, and one of the principles of a civilised society is to try to improve the chances of those who are poorest.

People who had extremely secure accommodation (the original council tenancies were life-long and could be passed on to your children, eviction was very difficult) at no/minimal monthly cost, security for life, and no maintenance costs paid a large sum of money for the privilege of paying the maintenance costs themselves. If they needed a mortgage, they then had an additional monthly cost plus the risk that if they couldn't keep up the payments they would be foreclosed on and lose their home.

 

[SO1]

I think in time all commercial yards within a 2 hour commute to London from will be lost to development unless they are small yards owned by private industrials to keep their own horses.

I have read there are streets in Northen England where the houses are all borded up because nobody wants to live there.

There is unused housing stock the problem is the majority of commercial activity is in London. If companies and banks were to move head offices out of London it would provide more jobs elsewhere and more housing options in places where there is unused supply.

Levelling up is not just about development in the South of England and building thousands of houses on greenbelts which cost less than property in London but still out of reach for many.

I think also with 1 in 3 marriages failing there is more needs for family houses. For example my friend is divorced and has 3 kids and they need at least a two bed house and that would be squashing all the teenage boys into one bedroom. Her ex husband also needs a property that can accommodate 3 kids as he has them at weekends and some holidays. I know quite a few people in this situation there is a real shortage of family homes available that are affordable on one income either to rent or buy. We need more housing as we are no longer traditional familes with people living at their parents home until they married and then moving into their own home and not getting divorced. There is also a lot of student accommodation with so many people going to uni and flat shares when people leave.

 

[ycbm]

most of the estates do have open spaces of some description and children's play areas, because those are cheap

I would argue with you about any of those being cheap when they take up multiple spaces that could have been used for houses to sell at c£400k a piece.
.

 

[ester]

Shared ownership properties around here always seem to be significantly higher priced than the equivalent to buy outright.

One of the local 'new towns' (Northstowe) so multiple developers has a primary and secondary school but nothing else in terms of facilities, and with multiple developers (one of which has gone bust) it doesn't always seem clear who is responsible for what street wise. Ridiculously the council didn't put anything in to account for inflation for the money they requested from developers to build a community centre.
They now cannot build a community centre.
Their solution was to buy 2 3 storey townhouses (show homes) and use them, great for activities they would have been, no parking
Neighbours (as some of the first houses sold) not happy
And then someone pointed out that the planning permission (that the council had given. . . ) meant that they couldnt' actually be repurposed as not houses anyway.

They've also managed to steal the water, there is an intentional lake but there is also an area now deemed 'semi permanent flood' which has dropped the groundwater in local villages from (as a side effect of them pumping it out to put deeper foundations in for houses that had to be built higher as it was technically flood plain).

Then we have the joy of waterbeach new town. The developers for waterbeach new town (that was promised to never be called anything to do with waterbeach) were very very keen that they be allowed to move the original waterbeach's station and that they would agree to fund this, mainline to london so would add ££ to their housing sales.
Permission given
Now they apparently can't afford it anymore (they totally can!) so now the tax payer is funding £20 million of the £37 million relocation cost.
They also plan to have no cars in the new town, they will all be in car parks to the outside and people will walk/cycle etc to their front doors. . . I'm fascinated to see how well that works when they come back from tesco.

 

[JFTDWS]

I would argue with you about any of those being cheap when they take up multiple spaces that could have been used for houses to sell at c£400k a piece.
.

In context, relative to dealing with the lack of infrastructure, drainage, transport, the 800k house you could fit on a children's play park round here, is absolutely cheap.

 

[sbloom]

I think also with 1 in 3 marriages failing there is more needs for family houses. For example my friend is divorced and has 3 kids and they need at least a two bed house and that would be squashing all the teenage boys into one bedroom. Her ex husband also needs a property that can accommodate 3 kids as he has them at weekends and some holidays. I know quite a few people in this situation there is a real shortage of family homes available that are affordable on one income either to rent or buy. We need more housing as we are no longer traditional familes with people living at their parents home until they married and then moving into their own home and not getting divorced. There is also a lot of student accommodation with so many people going to uni and flat shares when people leave.

Household size shrinking has been a huge cause of the need for more housing, houses held empty as investments and air BnB are both further causes. Shout these from the rooftops when people focus on immigration.

 

[ycbm]

Household size shrinking has been a huge cause of the need for more housing, houses held empty as investments and air BnB are both further causes. Shout these from the rooftops when people focus on immigration.

We increase the population by another million every 3 years with immigration. The Official net migration figure for 2022, just one year, was over half a million people.

Those people can't be housed by confiscating other peoples assets or removing airb'n'b. Airb'n'b is essentially either substitute hotel rooms or holiday lets used by holiday makers. Those rooms/ houses are needed for that purpose, unless it's also proposed that people should stop staying away from home.

From Big Issue.

According to the most recent government council taxbase figures released in November 2022, there are 257,331 homes in England that are classed as long-term empty homes. This means that they have been left vacant for more than six months.

Confiscating all of those and filling them won't make a fleabite of difference to the situation when we have 26 million homes in the UK and will have another third of a million residents at the end of another year.

You can't leave immigration out of this. You can't increase the population by a million every 3 years and not increase house building without creating the housing problem we now have.

This is not an argument against immigration. It's an argument against inviting people to live here without building homes for them to live in.
.

 

[throwawayaccount]

how awful I hope everyone manages to find new stables that are suitable

 

[Goldenstar]

We can’t take the lazy view that houses used for holiday buisness are a answer for the problem .
They play a role in a very few places .
However we do need a healthy domestic holiday sector with plenty of capacity we need to move away from travel abroad for holidays flying for this bad for the environment .
The holiday industry is vital in many areas it and agriculture are what keeps many rural areas going .

 

[sbloom]

There are tons of factors that contribute to this, I was simply saying that immigration alone is not the sole cause. If we keep dismissing each and every factor as irrelevant then we'll never solve it. Air BnB is often spoken about as an issue for example. Sure it'll be more of an issue in holiday hotspots, goes without saying but we can't reject it just because it's not the sole issue everywhere.

 

[ycbm]

There are tons of factors that contribute to this, I was simply saying that immigration alone is not the sole cause. If we keep dismissing each and every factor as irrelevant then we'll never solve it. Air BnB is often spoken about as an issue for example. Sure it'll be more of an issue in holiday hotspots, goes without saying but we can't reject it just because it's not the sole issue everywhere.

But what do you think Airb'n'b is being used for SB? It's either a hotel room for business, a hotel room for holidaymakers or a holiday cottage.

We need more and more of these if people are going to stop flying and holiday in this country.

We can't just confiscate them to house a tiny proportion of the people who need a permanent affordable home.
.

 

[sbloom]

But what do you think Airb'n'b is being used for SB? It's either a hotel room for business, a hotel room for holidaymakers or a holiday cottage.

We need more and more of these if people are going to stop flying and holiday in this country.

We can't just confiscate them to house a tiny proportion of the people who need a permanent affordable home.
.

Well I'm not much of a holidayer so my opinion is probably moot but the phenomenon is causing not only house price but disturbance issues so it's not a solution.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rise+of+air+bnb+problems&t=vivaldi&ia=web

I think giving people decent housing across the board is much more important than holidays for those that can afford. We need to find ways to make that work rather than letting the free market run unfettered because [insert all manner of apparent horrors]. Unfortunately we're not good at that sort of big picture planning.

 

[ycbm]

I think giving people decent housing across the board is much more important than holidays for those that can afford.

So do we all, but airb'n'b is neither the cause of the problem nor the solution. Taken in the round it's likely to be a net benefit, because it's facilitating the use of spare rooms and temporarily empty homes which would otherwise not be occupied.

The problem is too many people trying to live in too few houses. The solution to the problem is to build more homes.
.

 

[sbloom]

So do we all, but airb'n'b is neither the cause of the problem nor the solution. Taken in the round it's likely to be a net benefit, because it's facilitating the use of spare rooms and temporarily empty homes which would otherwise not be occupied.

The problem is too many people trying to live in too few houses. The solution to the problem is to build more homes.
.

Buildings that become Air BnBs were seldom empty beforehand from everything I've read, though yes, the spare room ones will have been empty. If they had been empty they wouldn't be causing these issues. And like I say, they're not THE solution, I said that explicitly, but one issue that needs to be solved as part of tackling housing issues.

They are obviously exploding worldwide but essentially they are a more profitable way to own property than renting them out, it's not a way to bring back unwanted buildings into use. They have much lower standards in terms of building control, safety etc, so we should as a very minimum level the playing field between private rentals and Air BnBs. Owners, as with private rentals, should be treated more as businesses.

We have more bedrooms than ever in this country, I think even on a per capita basis, and saying that we need more homes, to the extent that is mooted, drives people into really divided positions. We never talk about the alternatives https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/27/building-homes-britain-housing-crisis

 

[criso]

Someone renting out their own home by Airbnb which is the intention is not a problem. It's not really intended to be a full time thing and there are limits, 90 days I think on how many days it's rented out. It's much less efficient than a hotel which would have a higher density of accommodation and smaller footprint per person.

Is it more of an issue in cities where 90 days at per day rates yields higher revenue than full time tenants so a place is taken off the rental market?

 

[sbloom]

Someone renting out their own home by Airbnb which is the intention is not a problem. It's not really intended to be a full time thing and there are limits, 90 days I think on how many days it's rented out. It's much less efficient than a hotel which would have a higher density of accommodation and smaller footprint per person.

Is it more of an issue in cities where 90 days at per day rates yields higher revenue than full time tenants so a place is taken off the rental market?

I think the 90 day limit is only in London?

Revealed: the areas in the UK with one Airbnb for every four homes

‘Out-of-control’ dominance of rentals in some communities depriving locals of homes, critics say

www.theguardian.com

And from https://www.ukpropertyaccountants.co.uk/tax-on-airbnb-income/:

"Are there any other tax advantages of being Airbnb landlord?
Fortunately, yes. There are many benefits for Airbnb landlord compared to typical buy-to-let landlords if you meet the conditions of Furnished Holiday Letting as describe above. Below are some of those advantages:

• 
  Any rental profits are treated as ‘Earned Income’ similar as any other self-employed income. The typical rental income from the buy-to-let property will not qualify as ‘Earned Income’. The main advantage of this is that you will be able to make a bigger tax-free contribution to the pension scheme. The amount a taxpayer can pay into pension scheme depends on ‘Earned Income’ which does not include normal rental income.
• 
  Capital allowances will be available for the furniture, fixtures and equipment in the property. For typical buy-to-let landlords, this is not the case."

 

[ycbm]

Buildings that become Air BnBs were seldom empty beforehand from everything I've read, though yes, the spare room ones will have been empty. If they had been empty they wouldn't be causing these issues. And like I say, they're not THE solution, I said that explicitly, but one issue that needs to be solved as part of tackling housing issues.

They are obviously exploding worldwide but essentially they are a more profitable way to own property than renting them out, it's not a way to bring back unwanted buildings into use. They have much lower standards in terms of building control, safety etc, so we should as a very minimum level the playing field between private rentals and Air BnBs. Owners, as with private rentals, should be treated more as businesses.

We have more bedrooms than ever in this country, I think even on a per capita basis, and saying that we need more homes, to the extent that is mooted, drives people into really divided positions. We never talk about the alternatives https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/27/building-homes-britain-housing-crisis

That article is primarily about the cost of houses not the availability of homes. It's correct in identifying the availability of cheap mortgages as the driver for house price increases.

But if we focus on numbers available, then I can assure the journalist that in my area last year there was such a shortage of houses that we were walking into estate agents only to be told that they had no 4 bed detached estate homes on their books for us to view. All brownfield sites in this town and the one we left have been developed, bar one remaining mill building which has planning consent but existing businesses as tenants currently. Developers are able to sell off plan as soon as they break ground.

To take simple numbers is also disingenuous. To say that it's not lack of supply causing issues because the total number of homes available is slightly greater than the number of households in the country is facile. Those houses have to be where people work and of a type they want/need to live in, and a significant proportion will always be empty due to deaths, moves and renovations.

That article says

in 2014, there were 28 million dwellings in the UK, but only a predicted 27.7 million households in 2016.

In the 9 years since 2014 known net migration has increased the population by close to 3 million.

There is no getting away from this, it's a population issue.
.

 

[FestiveG]

Land banking continues here. A greenfield site was given planning permission for housing, filing in between two villages and was cleared of grazing and trees etc, maybe five years ago, the land is currently scrub and a mess. This should not be something that happens imo

 

[ycbm]

Land banking continues here. A greenfield site was given planning permission for housing, filing in between two villages and was cleared of grazing and trees etc, maybe five years ago, the land is currently scrub and a mess. This should not be something that happens imo

Completely agree, they should be made to give it up to another developer if they don't want to build on it.

I was convinced that Redrow would shut in the 67 acres it started ground work on 6 months ago, but they are steaming ahead building houses, so they don't seem to be forecasting any let up in demand in this area.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

A few of my friends air bnb in their home they are my age and most are working fewer hours in the main jobs and the air bnb helps with allowing that .
In some Areas air bnb of whole homes does cause issues in London funnily enough it’s a huge issue in some boroughs and of course the one you always hear about Cornwall which which has got its self into a muddle .
I know a lot about holiday let’s and how they work in the community because I grew up in one of those iconic villages you see on posters and will move back there soon , renovation project depending that’s another story .
To buy a four bedroom home in this village is undeniably expensive it’s small can’t expand to any great extent but a twenty minute walk away nice solid home are much much cheaper .

 

[Goldenstar]

We do have more bedrooms than ever because we have more households than ever .
Lots of things drive this including single households and working from home .

People have the right to use the home they buy and pay for with taxed income as they chose .
If that includes using a spare room or even two for all sorts of things other than children that’s their right .
I don’t see control of individuals rights as any solution to the problem .
In an area like where I live Tourism is vital without the area would be beggared all over the county thousands of people earn livings from Tourism and selling services to those who run Tourism based enterprises it’s a good thing it brings money in to area and provides a beautiful place for others to come and enjoy .
Its an industry just as important as any other .

 

[SantaVera]

There are lots of empty houses in my village,inherited houses left empty. And far too many second homes and holiday cottages.i think the council should charge 400 percent council tax on all of these, give something in back to the people who actually live here full time

 

[Goldenstar]

There are lots of empty houses in my village,inherited houses left empty. And far too many second homes and holiday cottages.i think the council should charge 400 percent council tax on all of these, give something in back to the people who actually live here full time

Holiday cottages are sources of income people feed themselves on

 

[sakura]

I live in a seaside town in the far south west. Our housing market is crippled because of Air BnB/holiday lets and second homes. Locals cannot buy a house here and have to move away, leaving the town and nearby villages essentially deserted during winter. We have no affordable first time housing projects, and I would gladly welcome them.

 

[criso]

I think the 90 day limit is only in London

I think you're right though it's more needed in London.

In some parts of the country, there is more of a definite season. My Italian side of the family was involved in tourism, hotels, caravans, cafes and restaurants etc. You had to make your money in the summer and Easter. So there is a limit of desirable days. In this case Airbnb is competing with holiday let's and arguably just a different ways of connecting with tourists. At busy times of the year, all the hotels, b&bs, holiday cottages and caravans are full, so other forms of accommodation aren't losing out. There may be an issue with safety, I know there are minimum requirements but not sure if this is checked. Do you get asked for a copy of fire risk assessment or pat certificates for appliances?

Big cities have tourists all the year and there it's an issue because the properties were ones that might have been rental properties. A lot of companies have ways of getting round the 90 day e.g. listing on multiple sites. Good if slightly long article on how professionals are gaming the Airbnb system

I stumbled across a huge Airbnb scam that’s taking over London

The curious tale of a man called Christian, the Catholic church, David Schwimmer’s wife, a secret hotel and an Airbnb scam running riot on the streets of London

www.wired.co.uk

 

[mariew]

I utterly agree with sbloom on Airbnb/second homes bought for holiday let purpose only. and am living right in it. they are sucking the life out of villages. There should be a low cap of how many would be allowed. People can go on holiday to plenty of caravans and hotels, - you don't need Airbnb houses. Basically they are occupied for a few weeks of the year and tourists do a massive supermarket order at the beginning so they don't have to shop local. The only benefit compared to campsites is that they provide a good secondary income for cleaning and holiday lets but I'd rather have a thriving village where locals could afford the houses.

Some locals move out for a few weeks in the summer and rent out but live in it for the rest of the year which I have no issues with. It's the rich people buying up second homes and making them into air bnbs, pushing up prices and letting them stand empty for most of the year that are an issue.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Back to closing yards another one located in Uxbridge has just popped up on my FB feed. They site financial pressure and being unable to run the yard safely.

 

[paddy555]

I live in a seaside town in the far south west. Our housing market is crippled because of Air BnB/holiday lets and second homes. Locals cannot buy a house here and have to move away, leaving the town and nearby villages essentially deserted during winter. We have no affordable first time housing projects, and I would gladly welcome them.

I'm in a tourist area in the SW and totally agree. I recently tried to help someone local find somewhere to live in our village or it's large rural surroundings. She would have put up with anything, room, caravan, but absolutely nothing. Every available barn or property is holiday lets. Could be long term lets for ordinary folk needing a home but no. Same situation with someone else. Both have had to move 5 miles out of the area just to get little more than a room.

There is just about no benefit to local people from these. Tesco delivers. They are not the sort of people who go to the local gift store those are more for the day trippers.

I utterly agree with sbloom on Airbnb/second homes bought for holiday let purpose only. and am living right in it. they are sucking the life out of villages. There should be a low cap of how many would be allowed. People can go on holiday to plenty of caravans and hotels, - you don't need Airbnb houses. Basically they are occupied for a few weeks of the year and tourists do a massive supermarket order at the beginning so they don't have to shop local. The only benefit compared to campsites is that they provide a good secondary income for cleaning and holiday lets but I'd rather have a thriving village where locals could afford the houses.

totally agree. Nothing wrong with a tent, caravan site or a motor home. They don't even provide an income for local people in our area cleaning because no one is interested in Sat. morning cleaning. Lack of cleaners is becoming a real problem, not shedding any tears over that problem

People need a first home before we worry about 2nd homes and holiday lets.