Are young horses now doing too much?

[tristar]

Interesting post. I was lucky as a kid to attach myself to a racing yard (age 13 ) and watch the best trainer I have ever seen ,at work. I never saw him break down a single horse ,over number of years on a 40 horse yard. We had the odd accident but NEVER anything to do with overwork ,and yet he was highly successful . In hindsight I see that it was all down to attention to detail and personal involvement with every horse and member of staff. I learned the difference between exercise and work. Exercise builds up a horse , work knocks it down. And always leave a horse better than before you got onto it!

great!

 

[tristar]

when we move away from natural, that is the moment of disaster for the horse

there is a great difference between developing an animals potential and making it conform to our idea of how it should move, therefore its down to the philosophy of the trainer and their empathy with the horse or ability to gauge where the horse is in its training and what it needs to progress without damaging itself

 

[tristar]

Im sorry but I can’t see this argument that having young horse with unfused growth plates being jumped over a meter is beneficial to them. Im reaping the benefits of gymnastics at a young age. Also martial arts, my fingers are buggered and my joints are less than optimal for a woman in her 30s ? has probably contributed to my spinal issues as well as the damage in my neck has happened a while ago but has deteriorated according to the neurologist and will continue to do so.

you just don’t go out and compete, the training has to be done, so these horses are doing a lot of work at home to be going out and competing at these classes.

My 4.5 year old has just had the physio and he’s so bumhigh that the walking hill work we are doing is very uncomfortable going down hill and he’s so higgelty piggelty that the physio was laughing as not a legs matching he says. Shoulders were out of sync, pelvis is uneven and it’s all to do with his growth. His left leg is annoying his right shoulder as he’s so bumhigh, so he got some good massage, ultrasound and infrared treatment.

I’m sure he’s not an unusual case, even if I did have a perfectly fitting saddle I wouldn’t be doing much schooling or jumping with him as it wouldn’t be fair.

the proof of reality!

 

[mariew]

I have just bought an unbacked 7 year old who I fell in love with, which is good as she'll be a project. When I was on show jumping yards not too many years ago, yup, 3 year olds were out jumping 2ft courses and moving up heights quickly. Not much different to racers really.

 

[sbloom]

Natural doesn't mean natural as in how a horse mooches or runs in the wild, it means optimising their natural structures, I think tristar and Cortez you're on the same side. I was quickly trying to find a FB post on it, this isn't quite what I was hunting for but it's in the ball park https://www.facebook.com/EncompassE...ot49M9pSfheTeRRjxnYqC6oKSZBTAWZEQd68KkX12bhwl

 

[RachelFerd]

Natural doesn't mean natural as in how a horse mooches or runs in the wild, it means optimising their natural structures, I think tristar and Cortez you're on the same side. I was quickly trying to find a FB post on it, this isn't quite what I was hunting for but it's in the ball park https://www.facebook.com/EncompassE...ot49M9pSfheTeRRjxnYqC6oKSZBTAWZEQd68KkX12bhwl

So that's an article with two photos of horses totally failing to even track up, putting itself forward as being examples of good balance?

 

[tristar]

Natural doesn't mean natural as in how a horse mooches or runs in the wild, it means optimising their natural structures, I think tristar and Cortez you're on the same side. I was quickly trying to find a FB post on it, this isn't quite what I was hunting for but it's in the ball park https://www.facebook.com/EncompassE...ot49M9pSfheTeRRjxnYqC6oKSZBTAWZEQd68KkX12bhwl

not looked at the photos.

exactly natural does not mean moving in an unconstructive way, but the rider following what the horse offers and being careful to contain and direct it, kind of studying the best route to take, dare i say it just enjoying the horse.

 

[stangs]

Natural doesn't mean natural as in how a horse mooches or runs in the wild, it means optimising their natural structures, I think tristar and Cortez you're on the same side. I was quickly trying to find a FB post on it, this isn't quite what I was hunting for but it's in the ball park https://www.facebook.com/EncompassE...ot49M9pSfheTeRRjxnYqC6oKSZBTAWZEQd68KkX12bhwl

Interesting that the writer writes "balance" in quotation marks, and yet still doesn't define what they mean by "balance". Balance isn't just ballerinas doing pirouettes; it's the basic ability to use your senses and adjustment to minimise sway.

They write "we expect horses to find and maintain this thing called “balance” for significant lengths of time" as if it's a bad thing. However, it wouldn't be fair on the horse to be working consistently off-balance either (off-balance should only be to train against injury). Walking on a long rein as a break should be balanced too; it's just less of a challenging balance to achieve.

 

[sbloom]

Interesting that the writer writes "balance" in quotation marks, and yet still doesn't define what they mean by "balance". Balance isn't just ballerinas doing pirouettes; it's the basic ability to use your senses and adjustment to minimise sway.

They write "we expect horses to find and maintain this thing called “balance” for significant lengths of time" as if it's a bad thing. However, it wouldn't be fair on the horse to be working consistently off-balance either (off-balance should only be to train against injury). Walking on a long rein as a break should be balanced too; it's just less of a challenging balance to achieve.

It's a short, slightly esoteric post, she has brought her own refinements to the Science of Motion approach, explaining his approach to balance would take a lot more than that post. I think she is simply talking about balance being the goal, whether than is a horizontal balance, actually seen in so few horses, or the more uphill balance of a more advanced horse, and that we should be very aware how much work it is for the horse to maintain it. So often we don't realise when a horse is tired, and that more work would be counter productive.

 

[DabDab]

It's a short, slightly esoteric post, she has brought her own refinements to the Science of Motion approach, explaining his approach to balance would take a lot more than that post. I think she is simply talking about balance being the goal, whether than is a horizontal balance, actually seen in so few horses, or the more uphill balance of a more advanced horse, and that we should be very aware how much work it is for the horse to maintain it. So often we don't realise when a horse is tired, and that more work would be counter productive.

I usually enjoy the links you post and agree with your general philosophy on posture etc, but I thought that link was a bit of an odd one too I'm afraid. The text is waffle that makes it hard to work out what the author is getting at, the pictures are not great as 'good example' shots of anything, and I can't imagine why you would try to use a single image to demonstrate a dynamic concept like balance...??

 

[sbloom]

As I said, found in a hurry when I couldn't find the type of post I thought I'd seen recently. She's not trying to teach people what balance is, it's just food for thought. She's an exceptional trainer, just doesn't do much on SM.

 

[tristar]

It's a short, slightly esoteric post, she has brought her own refinements to the Science of Motion approach, explaining his approach to balance would take a lot more than that post. I think she is simply talking about balance being the goal, whether than is a horizontal balance, actually seen in so few horses, or the more uphill balance of a more advanced horse, and that we should be very aware how much work it is for the horse to maintain it. So often we don't realise when a horse is tired, and that more work would be counter productive.

which introduces another factor, the in bred ability of the horse, to stabilize itself and that comes from conformation largely, and the right bloodlines, breeding horses that can naturally hold it together, [without a rider on board]

you are trying to project a concept in words on a forum that is so difficult to encapsulate, possibly because it so in advance of current thinking and a series of notions that need to come together to be explained in words.

 

[tristar]

Natural doesn't mean natural as in how a horse mooches or runs in the wild, it means optimising their natural structures, I think tristar and Cortez you're on the same side. I was quickly trying to find a FB post on it, this isn't quite what I was hunting for but it's in the ball park https://www.facebook.com/EncompassE...ot49M9pSfheTeRRjxnYqC6oKSZBTAWZEQd68KkX12bhwl

its a good article, not the photos.
the reference to ``if the rider is out the horses is out`` jumps out at me

its very much on the lines i am thinking at present.

 

[Cortez]

Well, of course if the rider is out of balance the horse cannot be in balance - that goes without saying, surely? I too find the article to be a bunch of waffle, but then so much is nowadays. It's not a new idea you know; the whole and singular goal of all classical riding is the balance and harmony of the horse and rider.

I agree that conformation plays a huge part in the effectiveness of training to achieve this.

 

[tristar]

``the fake balance of a clever rider dominating the horse``

she`s got it spot on there


its so obvious at even higher levels, and possibly why so many people do not enjoy watching a performance, yet cannot put their finger on what it is that makes them uncomfortable about it