Badminton XC day

[Fidgety]

Maybe I'm too soft and forget she is a professional rider.

On the contrary, how many professional riders have we seen not just today, but over the years, who have been close to tears when talking about their horse? Just look at how Lucinda rushed over to the horse rather than her daughter . Those riders (and mums) are the true professionals!

 

[mypegasus]

Similar numbers finished and/or had problems at last year's Badminton. It's not meant to be a dressage competition, every horse got up from its fall (if it fell rather than unseated), and one rider in hospital as a precaution. Don't forget there were 25 Badminton first timers, or was it 25 first timers at 4*, can't quite remember which, but worth considering.

Teapot totally agree that it's not meant to be a dressage test.

I can remember doing similar analysis back in 2014 when there were a lot of problems around the course. I think it goes to show that it takes a lot skill to complete these courses.

I do it more out of interest to see what type of fences cause the problems.

And welcome ideas as to why a certain fence may have caused so many to be caught out, why the optimum time was hard to achieve, etc.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Wow! Glad he made his way back unscathed, he was travelling at some speed when last seen on the tv coverage.

 

[smellsofhorse]

On the contrary, how many professional riders have we seen not just today, but over the years, who have been close to tears when talking about their horse? Just look at how Lucinda rushed over to the horse rather than her daughter . Those riders (and mums) are the true professionals!

Yes true most care immensely for their horses.
It just came across today that this particular rider didn't.

 

[Honey08]

Similar numbers finished and/or had problems at last year's Badminton. It's not meant to be a dressage competition, every horse got up from its fall (if it fell rather than unseated), and one rider in hospital as a precaution. Don't forget there were 25 Badminton first timers, or was it 25 first timers at 4*, can't quite remember which, but worth considering.

I think that's a big consideration. I remember reading the running order for dressage on the Thurs and I didn't know who half of them were.

I don't think it was a bad Badminton. Some rounds were bad, a couple very bad, yes, but a lot weren't, and the problems spread out between fences.

 

[DirectorFury]

Elisa Wallace has been "interviewed by the ground jury and sanctioned with a yellow card under article 526.1 — abuse of the horse, following her fall at the last fence." - statement from Badminton. Personally I think she should have had much worse than what is basically a slap on the wrist.

The horse that galloped off and jumped the string (Shanghai Joe - Shame Rose's horse) apparently slipped galloping back to the stables and has hurt a front leg. A statement from Badminton said: “He has been stabilised at the event’s veterinary centre by an orthopaedic specialist before being transferred to Breadstone Veterinary Hospital for further treatment.” Hope he's ok .

 

[smellsofhorse]

Elisa Wallace has been "interviewed by the ground jury and sanctioned with a yellow card under article 526.1 — abuse of the horse, following her fall at the last fence." - statement from Badminton. Personally I think she should have had much worse than what is basically a slap on the wrist.

The horse that galloped off and jumped the string (Shanghai Joe - Shame Rose's horse) apparently slipped galloping back to the stables and has hurt a front leg. A statement from Badminton said: “He has been stabilised at the event’s veterinary centre by an orthopaedic specialist before being transferred to Breadstone Veterinary Hospital for further treatment.” Hope he's ok .

Thanks for the update on Elisa Wallace.
How is her horse?

I also read about Shanghai Joe.
I did wonder at the time where he was caught.
Very sad he hurt himself.
I do hope he's ok.
B&W are fantastic vets so he will be in good hands when he's transferred.

 

[Lexi_]

I just saw that news about Shanghai Joe - hope it's not as serious as it sounds

The overall results seem pretty fair to me. No real bogey fences and a lot of the falls seemed to be as a result of leaving legs and tipping up (and often at wide fences rather than uprights) rather than being caught out by tricky distances etc. A few untidy rounds but also lots of really classy ones.

 

[mypegasus]

So where did the problems for riders occur on the cross country.

They were spread round a lot of the fences, however, 13 fences had no faults recorded at them.

Here's a summary of the refusals, falls, etc at each of the fences:

1 ASX Starter No problems
2 Rolex Rolltop 1 x rider fall
3 Keepers question 1 x horse fall
4 Mike Weavers Haywain No problems
5 Savills Staircase 2 x refusal, 1 x refusal & retirement, 2 x 2 refusals & retirement
6 Countryside Birch 2 x refusal & retirement
7 L200s No problems
8 The Lake 6 x refusal, 2 x rider falls, 1 x horse fall, 1 x missed flag, 2 x refusal & retirement
9 Offset Oxer 1 x horse fall, 1 x retirement
10 Shogun Hollow 3 x refusal, 1 x missed flag, 1 x refusal & retirement
11 KBIS Bridge 1 x horse fall
12 KBIS Bridge 1 x broken frangible pin
13 Outlander Bank 7 x refusals
14 Rolex Grand Slam Trakehner No problems
15 Hildon Water Pond 4 x refusals, 1 x rider fall, 2 x horse fall, 2 x refusal & retirement
16 Sheep Feeder No problems
17 Mirage Pond 3 x refusal, 2 x retirements, 1 x 2 refusals & retirement
18 Devoucoux Oxer No problems
19 PHEV Corral 1 x refusal, 1 x broken frangible pin, 3 x rider falls, 1 x refusal & retirement
20 Event Mobility Dining Table No problems
21 Joules Corners 1 x refusal 1 x 2 refusals, 1 x horse fall
22 Wadworth Lakeside 1 x refusal & retirement
23 Irish Horse Gateway Huntsmans Close No problems
24 World Horse Welfare Gates 1 x broken frangible pin, 1 x horse fall
25 Horse Quest Quarry No problems
26 Horse Quest Quarry No problems
27 FEI Classics Hedges No problems
28 FEI Classics Hedges No problems
29 Rolex Trunk No problems
30 Mitsubishi Final Mount 1 x rider fall

Hope that it's understandable!

 

[DirectorFury]

Thanks for the update on Elisa Wallace.
How is her horse?

Taken from her Facebook page: "Just to update everyone. Johnny is very happy munching his hay. I am okay as well. But disappointed in myself in letting my horse,country, and sport down. I should have pulled him up. And I agree with the ground jury giving me a yellow card. I made a mistake that I will NEVER make again. I am lucky we are both unscathed. He gave me everything today. So thankful for my team and everyone who has supported me. So sorry to let you down. I love my horse and my sport."

Funnily enough comments are disabled on it - doesn't take a genius to work out why! And there are people saying that "no one loves their horse as much as Elisa". If that's what love looks like then, no, I don't 'love' my horse like that.

 

[mypegasus]

Thanks for the update on Elisa Wallace.
How is her horse?

I also read about Shanghai Joe.
I did wonder at the time where he was caught.
Very sad he hurt himself.
I do hope he's ok.
B&W are fantastic vets so he will be in good hands when he's transferred.

I hadn't heard about Shanghai Joe - whilst watching when he headed off after that fall, I thought that nothing was going to stop him.

Fingers crossed that the treatment goes well, and thoughts go to his rider and groom.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Taken from her Facebook page: "Just to update everyone. Johnny is very happy munching his hay. I am okay as well. But disappointed in myself in letting my horse,country, and sport down. I should have pulled him up. And I agree with the ground jury giving me a yellow card. I made a mistake that I will NEVER make again. I am lucky we are both unscathed. He gave me everything today. So thankful for my team and everyone who has supported me. So sorry to let you down. I love my horse and my sport."

Funnily enough comments are disabled on it - doesn't take a genius to work out why! And there are people saying that "no one loves their horse as much as Elisa". If that's what love looks like then, no, I don't 'love' my horse like that.

Thank you for that update.


I love my horse, but my love is very different to that.

 

[Honey08]

Bit worrying about Shanghai Joe, I did worry at the time seeing him hurtle into a Tarmac/cobbled yard at that speed. I hope he recovers well.

As for the girl with the exhausted horse, she messed up big time and let her horse down, but I don't want to see a trial by internet jury. The stewards could've stopped her too..

 

[Turitea]

Yes, she should have pulled up. Totally agree and I guess it will haunt her for quite some time.
However, to get a better idea who Elisa Wallace is and what kind of horse person she really is, have a look at her youtube channel.

 

[AmyMay]

Elisa Wallace has been "interviewed by the ground jury and sanctioned with a yellow card under article 526.1 — abuse of the horse, following her fall at the last fence." - statement from Badminton. Personally I think she should have had much worse than what is basically a slap on the wrist.

Same ground jury that should have instructed her to pull up......

 

[Alec Swan]

Elisa Wallace has been "interviewed by the ground jury and sanctioned with a yellow card under article 526.1 — abuse of the horse, following her fall at the last fence." - statement from Badminton. Personally I think she should have had much worse than what is basically a slap on the wrist.

……… .

There must surely be a protocol in place whereby those who are monitoring the riders and the horses are able to black flag a rider and stop them in such cases. The horse was all but of it's legs, and at the very least, the rider's apparent lack of concern for her mount only serves to bring this equine sport in to disrepute. We're quick enough to condemn the riders from the Middle East who treat Endurance horses badly, aren't we?

Badminton is one of the showcases of Eventing and the committee who monitor horses and riders also have questions to answer.

There were also too many horses slipping with one having a crashing fall on the flat. If the ground conditions are such that a horse finds it difficult to keep it's feet, then that won't help the confidence of either horse or rider.

I'm also still surprised at just how many horses I see out eventing and at all levels which simply aren't fit, at least not to the stage where they should be facing such tests. Too many, in my view.

Alec.

 

[AmieeT]

Same ground jury that should have instructed her to pull up......

Totally agree. She was in the wrong, but they were no better and let her continue.

Shame about Shanghai Joe. As has been said, B&W are fab- hoping he'll be fine, but friend that used to work at the Breadstone Clinic put on FB that his injuries do sound quite severe- not entirely sure whether she interpreted that from the statement or got heard from someone she'd spoken to there.

 

[{97702}]

Yes, she should have pulled up. Totally agree and I guess it will haunt her for quite some time.
However, to get a better idea who Elisa Wallace is and what kind of horse person she really is, have a look at her youtube channel.

Oh go on, do tell -I have looked at her YouTube channel and haven't really formed any opinion of her?

 

[AmieeT]

There must surely be a protocol in place whereby those who are monitoring the riders and the horses are able to black flag a rider and stop them in such cases. The horse was all but of it's legs, and at the very least, the rider's apparent lack of concern for her mount only serves to bring this equine sport in to disrepute. We're quick enough to condemn the riders from the Middle East who treat Endurance horses badly, aren't we?

Badminton is one of the showcases of Eventing and the committee who monitor horses and riders also have questions to answer.

There were also too many horses slipping with one having a crashing fall on the flat. If the ground conditions are such that a horse finds it difficult to keep it's feet, then that won't help the confidence of either horse or rider.

I'm also still surprised at just how many horses I see out eventing and at all levels which simply aren't fit, at least not to the stage where they should be facing such tests. Too many, in my view.

Alec.

Well said Alec.

 

[mypegasus]

Bit worrying about Shanghai Joe, I did worry at the time seeing him hurtle into a Tarmac/cobbled yard at that speed. I hope he recovers well.

As for the girl with the exhausted horse, she messed up big time and let her horse down, but I don't want to see a trial by internet jury.

Honey - agree that Elisa messed up hugely. None of us know how she is feeling right now. I was horrified to see how leg weary her horse was when she fell. We have to remember that these days, the internet is a powerful tool. It can be used in positive ways and equally in exceedingly negative ways.

The FEI have dealt with her and if she gets a second yellow card within 12 months then she will have to serve a suspension.

It will no doubt be a very hard lesson for her to learn, we don't know what she was thinking, how the horse felt to her. One of the things that slightly got to me was the fact that she didn't walk over and see how her horse was, my first reaction was that I would have wanted to give the horse a huge hug and then start walking it around gently to allow it's muscles to recover. Hopefully she is spending some time with the horse tonight, he gave everything he could today. Hopefully when he's home he'll have a nice few weeks off.

How many of us have made mistakes? Probably not in the public eye. Yes, professional riders need to think about their public image. I can remember Oliver Townend being slated for some of his riding, he has learnt and changed some of his riding style.

 

[teapot]

There are protocols in place - a couple of riders didn't get past the third or fourth fence at Burghley last year before being stopped.

 

[mypegasus]

There must surely be a protocol in place whereby those who are monitoring the riders and the horses are able to black flag a rider and stop them in such cases. The horse was all but of it's legs, and at the very least, the rider's apparent lack of concern for her mount only serves to bring this equine sport in to disrepute. We're quick enough to condemn the riders from the Middle East who treat Endurance horses badly, aren't we?

Badminton is one of the showcases of Eventing and the committee who monitor horses and riders also have questions to answer.

There were also too many horses slipping with one having a crashing fall on the flat. If the ground conditions are such that a horse finds it difficult to keep it's feet, then that won't help the confidence of either horse or rider.

I'm also still surprised at just how many horses I see out eventing and at all levels which simply aren't fit, at least not to the stage where they should be facing such tests. Too many, in my view.

Alec.

Alec

The ground jury are able to stop a horse on course if they are concerned for its welfare. From the grass roots of the sport to the top level. I'm not sure whether it has ever been used in anger at any event.

Perhaps the FEI need to look into the rules and issue clearer guidelines? Who knows?

With regard to the horses slipping, I wonder whether riders hadn't chosen the right studs, horses lost shoes earlier in the round. Would be interested to hear some of the riders thoughts.

I agree with regard to the fitness of all levels of eventers - I used to fence judge years ago at all levels up to 2*. There were some horses who clearly struggled especially if it was hilly terrain. Equally you could tell the riders who prepared their horses well, I can remember being at Highclere one year on the last fence and there were several horses (both amateur and pros) who pinged the last fence cantered over the finish line and looked as though they'd happily go round again.

 

[criso]

Quick question on a completely different subject. I recorded it today and am just watching now. In the interview with the Astier Nicholas, you could clearly see the label on his body protector that said BETA 2000 - does it not have to be 2009?

 

[Alec Swan]

So where did the problems for riders occur on the cross country.

They were spread round a lot of the fences, however, 13 fences had no faults recorded at them.

Here's a summary of the refusals, falls, etc at each of the fences:

1 ASX Starter No problems
2 Rolex Rolltop 1 x rider fall
3 Keepers question 1 x horse fall
4 Mike Weavers Haywain No problems
5 Savills Staircase 2 x refusal, 1 x refusal & retirement, 2 x 2 refusals & retirement
6 Countryside Birch 2 x refusal & retirement
7 L200s No problems
8 The Lake 6 x refusal, 2 x rider falls, 1 x horse fall, 1 x missed flag, 2 x refusal & retirement
9 Offset Oxer 1 x horse fall, 1 x retirement
10 Shogun Hollow 3 x refusal, 1 x missed flag, 1 x refusal & retirement
11 KBIS Bridge 1 x horse fall
12 KBIS Bridge 1 x broken frangible pin
13 Outlander Bank 7 x refusals
14 Rolex Grand Slam Trakehner No problems
15 Hildon Water Pond 4 x refusals, 1 x rider fall, 2 x horse fall, 2 x refusal & retirement
16 Sheep Feeder No problems
17 Mirage Pond 3 x refusal, 2 x retirements, 1 x 2 refusals & retirement
18 Devoucoux Oxer No problems
19 PHEV Corral 1 x refusal, 1 x broken frangible pin, 3 x rider falls, 1 x refusal & retirement
20 Event Mobility Dining Table No problems
21 Joules Corners 1 x refusal 1 x 2 refusals, 1 x horse fall
22 Wadworth Lakeside 1 x refusal & retirement
23 Irish Horse Gateway Huntsmans Close No problems
24 World Horse Welfare Gates 1 x broken frangible pin, 1 x horse fall
25 Horse Quest Quarry No problems
26 Horse Quest Quarry No problems
27 FEI Classics Hedges No problems
28 FEI Classics Hedges No problems
29 Rolex Trunk No problems
30 Mitsubishi Final Mount 1 x rider fall

Hope that it's understandable!

How interesting, and thanks for that! Looking and thinking about fence 13 the Outlander Bank, 7 horses refused but it should be borne in mind, that the rest didn't. Competition at this level has to be testing and I strongly suspect that most of those refusals will have been down to rider error. Any difficult fence which is mis-presented to a horse will account for most of the refusals, I'd have thought.

Thankfully it wasn't a particularly hot day, but I'm still surprised that only two horses came home within the time, or was that the plan all along do you suppose?

Alec.

 

[{97702}]

Quick question on a completely different subject. I recorded it today and am just watching now. In the interview with the Astier Nicholas, you could clearly see the label on his body protector that said BETA 2000 - does it not have to be 2009?

Not until next season - the BETA 2000 body protectors can still be used this year

 

[FfionWinnie]

Quick question on a completely different subject. I recorded it today and am just watching now. In the interview with the Astier Nicholas, you could clearly see the label on his body protector that said BETA 2000 - does it not have to be 2009?

Funny I watched that and thought it looked ancient but couldn't see the label!

 

[mypegasus]

How interesting, and thanks for that! Looking and thinking about fence 13 the Outlander Bank, 7 horses refused but it should be borne in mind, that the rest didn't. Competition at this level has to be testing and I strongly suspect that most of those refusals will have been down to rider error. Any difficult fence which is mis-presented to a horse will account for most of the refusals, I'd have thought.

Thankfully it wasn't a particularly hot day, but I'm still surprised that only two horses came home within the time, or was that the plan all along do you suppose?

Alec.

No worries Alec, I like to have a look at where problems have occurred and what's happening.

15 horses had been retired or eliminated before getting to the Outlander Bank - so there were 7 refusals out of 66 horses who presented at the fence - approximately 10% of the field who got as far as it had problems.

The Hildon Water Pond had it's fair share of problems - 9 out of the 66 who presented had problems - just under 14% of the field.

 

[criso]

Funny I watched that and thought it looked ancient but couldn't see the label!

It was a Rodney Powell one.

It struck me as was talking to someone on the yard the other day who has had to buy a new one for her daughter as apparently pony club no longer allows 2000 and realised I may need to buy a new one so that's why I wondered.

 

[Lexi_]

Totally agree. She was in the wrong, but they were no better and let her continue.

Shame about Shanghai Joe. As has been said, B&W are fab- hoping he'll be fine, but friend that used to work at the Breadstone Clinic put on FB that his injuries do sound quite severe- not entirely sure whether she interpreted that from the statement or got heard from someone she'd spoken to there.

It was the mention of an orthopaedic vet that makes me think it must be some sort of bone issue and therefore severe.

How interesting, and thanks for that! Looking and thinking about fence 13 the Outlander Bank, 7 horses refused but it should be borne in mind, that the rest didn't. Competition at this level has to be testing and I strongly suspect that most of those refusals will have been down to rider error. Any difficult fence which is mis-presented to a horse will account for most of the refusals, I'd have thought.

Thankfully it wasn't a particularly hot day, but I'm still surprised that only two horses came home within the time, or was that the plan all along do you suppose?

Alec.

Commentators were saying earlier on that the course designer had predicted 15 inside the time.

 

[mypegasus]

Just been looking at the movement from dressage placings to placings after cross country.

First number is place after cross country

Second number is place after dressage

Third number is either + (moved up) or - (moved down) or 0 (not moved)

1 2 +1
2 9 +7
3 =5 +2
4 34 +30
5 14 +9
6 =20 +14
7 47 +40
8 =18 +10
9 13 +4
10 12 +2
11 =51 +40
12 =67 +55
13 10 -3
14 30 +16
15 64 +49
16 =18 +2
17 =5 -12
18 75 +57
19 1 -18
20 57 +37
21 22 +1
23 41 +18
24 =27 +3
25 3 -22
26 24 -2
27 =42 +15
28 63 +35
29 60 +31
30 74 +44
31 73 +42
32 76 +44
33 82 +49
34 16 -18
35 56 +21
36 7 -29
37 23 -14
38 =38 0
39 26 -13
40 11 -29
41 =27 -14
42 =67 +25
43 44 +1
45 80 +35
46 79 +33
47 53 +6
48 31 -17
49 61 +12

The biggest mover was Joseph Murphy with Sportsfield Othello who moved up 57 places.