Badminton XC!

[hattie2525]

Sorry if this has already been asked but is there any way to watch the full cross country coverage on catch up? Usually we watch them Saturday evening on but it's not up yet, anyone know if/ when it will be uploaded? I went out today 100% confident I could watch it tonight and I'm a but gutted now ��

 

[tiggs]

It's on iplayer now

 

[be positive]

Gosh!!! I’ve never seen a statement put out like that about a rider before

That is a very clear warning, personally I thought Oli looked as tired as his horses, if not more so, and the only way he could "help" them was to wave his whip which made poor viewing and not what is expected from the number 1 rider, it may be he is unwell but none of the other pros finished looking as knackered as him, even those that had two rides, Tom McEwan jogged behind his horse after dismounting.

 

[MagicMelon]

Haven’t heard about a possible fatality but just seen that Oliver Townend has been given a warning over misuse of the whip on both his horses and they will be checked thoroughly at tomorrow’s inspection.

How absolutely awful if there's been a fatality, so so sad.

With regard to Oliver Townend, oh great he got a warning - thats ridiculous, too little too late! Shouldn't he at the very very least get penalties added so he'll at least think again should he ever consider riding in such a manner again? Ive never been fond of him, he always seems to be particularily tough on his horses. If he had to hit his horses on the flat between fences then IMO they were clearly not fit enough and should have been pulled up. He doesn't deserve to win tomorrow!

 

[hattie2525]

All I can find is Sundays highlights ready to record on my Sky Bbc iplayer and my iplayer iPad app. How annoying!

 

[sasquatch]

That is a very clear warning, personally I thought Oli looked as tired as his horses, if not more so, and the only way he could "help" them was to wave his whip which made poor viewing and not what is expected from the number 1 rider, it may be he is unwell but none of the other pros finished looking as knackered as him, even those that had two rides, Tom McEwan jogged behind his horse after dismounting.

Ben Hodbday was wrecked when he finished, think commentators even said he had to get medical attention as a result. Lissa Green also looked very tired after finishing too.

I'm rewatching right now, I'm in Ireland so don't get iplayer but have found I can rewind the live player and get most of it.

 

[tiggs]

All I can find is Sundays highlights ready to record on my Sky Bbc iplayer and my iplayer iPad app. How annoying!

On my laptop if you go to iplayer, categories and then sport it is there also on bbc sport website

 

[TelH]

All I can find is Sundays highlights ready to record on my Sky Bbc iplayer and my iplayer iPad app. How annoying!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/equestrian/43848447

Cross country is here on catch up.

 

[only_me]

Didn’t know that about Ben, but he was absolutely knackered and I’m not surprised. Hope he’s ok now!

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Not got to Ollie' s 2nd ride yet but was surprised How much he used the whip, could sort of see how once on the approach to a complex fence was sort of saying get focussed but think he used it about 3 times on the approach to the pond, oh who is non horsey kept commenting on how he "keeps hitting it" didn't Ollie say in the interview the horse is lazy? However if he did it with both?

Didn't notice any of the other riders resorting to the whip so much. I'm not anti whip but am pleased he has had a warning. Mulry with Ben for example didn't really look like he was travelling but didn't see him using the whip much or when Ben was really tired.

Re the warning it's a bit like the whip debate in racing if they use the whip more than the noted amount but win a main group 1 is the few day ban worth "breaking the rules"

Think he will win the grand slam but I've never particularly warmed to him.

Do like Lissa Green follow her on fb she seems to really love her horses and her events so glad she did well. Lissa's horse looked quite strong so may explain why she was so tired.

Would love Micheal and Sam to win but don't see all 3 above him having poles.

 

[Kadastorm]

Just seen the news about Alexander Bragg’s horse and it’s such a shame. I lost my pony due to injury to his suspensory ligament.
As for Oli - I don’t know what to think, his horse was tired but from what I saw he was waving the whip rather than using it. I’m rewatching so I may change my mind.

Just going to mention Tom Jackson too - his father was my farrier so I am a little bias but still, he is a wonderful rider and his horse is awesome. From pony club to badminton - what dreams are made of!

 

[be positive]

Ben Hodbday was wrecked when he finished, think commentators even said he had to get medical attention as a result. Lissa Green also looked very tired after finishing too.

I'm rewatching right now, I'm in Ireland so don't get iplayer but have found I can rewind the live player and get most of it.

They are both pros but not competing at this level on several horses so getting fit enough will be more difficult however hard they try it is not easy to replicate a 4* xc in training.
Ben Hobday may also have some health issues since his recovery from cancer, which may be why he was out of breath and needed precautionary medical attention.

 

[HashRouge]

I think Oli was waving his whip a lot, but he was also using it quite a lot at times too. It was the most noticeable of any of the riders from what I could see and is such a shame as it takes the shine off his fabulous dressage yesterday. I wonder if he would have ridden in the same way had he not got the grand slam in his sights? Not saying that's an excuse, but I wonder if it influenced him. Either way, it doesn't look good, particularly to non-horsey viewers.

 

[Honey08]

We were there today and saw Oli at one of the last fences of the course and I can't say the horse looked remotely tired four fences from home. I was surprised to read all the furore about him. I looked polished and together when he passed me. It was a very hot day though- a lot of horses struggled. Mr Potts made me cringe, I'm glad she retired. I guess in Oli's case, if the horse was a bit tired but not dangerously so, then it kind of is the riders job to push a bit. I will be interested to see the rc footage.

It was a day to be on a tb!

 

[Wishfilly]

Really sad to hear about Alexander Bragg's horse.

I do wonder if maybe the time was a bit too tight. Normally, you would expect to have some riders finishing inside the time, but no-one managed it. In the past, I have seen optimum times changed after the first 10 or so riders have gone, if the time seems a bit too tight. With this, combined with the rule change, I wonder if some riders were pushing their horses a bit too hard at the start, and thus finishing very tired.

I agree that many riders also looked very tired at the finish.

I do agree that the ground was obviously softer than it looked, and temperature was probably a factor for some riders and horses- but it's far from the worst conditions that Badminton has run in. I wonder if the weather earlier in the year has affected rider's abilities to get horses competition fit?

WRT to Ollie- I still think that on his second ride he was waving the whip more than making contact (although I agree it doesn't look great). On his first ride he did use the whip quite a bit between fences, but IMO, so did a lot of other riders. There are FEI rules on use of the whip, and I don't believe Ollie broke any of them. Perhaps the rules should be stricter? I wouldn't be against a rule change limiting riders to, say, seven uses of the whip over the last five obstacles or something.

Rules here for anyone interested. https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf ctrl+f and type in whip should bring you to the relevant section.

There were some great rounds today and it was great to see many of the first timers and young riders completing!

 

[TheMule]

Oli T really stood out for his persistent driving and pushing of tired horses. It's not acceptable. I have no problem with using the stick as a sharpener but he was using the stick after the horse had made good jumping efforts

 

[Honey08]

I've just read he's had an official warning for over use of the whip on both horses.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Statement on the news section of the BHT website.

'The Ground Jury interviewed Oliver Townend (GBR) regarding his riding of his horses Cooley SRS and Ballaghmore Class at Badminton 5th May 2018.

They gave him an official warning regarding his over-use of the whip on both horses and told him that the horses would be checked very carefully on Sunday morning for the horse inspection for their fitness to compete in the jumping phase.'

Quite right too.

 

[sasquatch]

They are both pros but not competing at this level on several horses so getting fit enough will be more difficult however hard they try it is not easy to replicate a 4* xc in training.
Ben Hobday may also have some health issues since his recovery from cancer, which may be why he was out of breath and needed precautionary medical attention.

We also don't know if any riders have any conditions like asthma etc, and without a doubt the heat also affects the riders - especially those who aren't used to it!

I do think Harry Meade had the right idea, riding round in a short sleeve shirt lol

 

[fetlock]

Watching Townsend's second round again on iplayer -

5:27 he sets off. Horse gets a slap.
5:32 takes off a bit close, lands well, he hits the horse fives times behind the saddle after landing
5:34 one slap (no issue with this one)
5:35:50 horse gets hit five times on the neck after landing
5:36 after landing the horse gets two (strong) hits on his backside
5:38 after landing, the horse is hit five times on his neck
5:38:29 horse hit hard twice on approach (if it wasnt for the rest this one could perhaps be overlooked)

Then we get to the last two fences. It's hard to tell but between the penultimate and last fence I think it was fanning the whip only, or mostly (saw one definite hit)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065zgf4/badminton-horse-trials-2018-cross-country-live

 

[fetlock]

Really sad to hear about Alexander Bragg's horse.

I do wonder if maybe the time was a bit too tight. Normally, you would expect to have some riders finishing inside the time, but no-one managed it. In the past, I have seen optimum times changed after the first 10 or so riders have gone, if the time seems a bit too tight. With this, combined with the rule change, I wonder if some riders were pushing their horses a bit too hard at the start, and thus finishing very tired.

I agree that many riders also looked very tired at the finish.

I do agree that the ground was obviously softer than it looked, and temperature was probably a factor for some riders and horses- but it's far from the worst conditions that Badminton has run in. I wonder if the weather earlier in the year has affected rider's abilities to get horses competition fit?

WRT to Ollie- I still think that on his second ride he was waving the whip more than making contact (although I agree it doesn't look great). On his first ride he did use the whip quite a bit between fences, but IMO, so did a lot of other riders. There are FEI rules on use of the whip, and I don't believe Ollie broke any of them. Perhaps the rules should be stricter? I wouldn't be against a rule change limiting riders to, say, seven uses of the whip over the last five obstacles or something.

Rules here for anyone interested. https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf ctrl+f and type in whip should bring you to the relevant section.

There were some great rounds today and it was great to see many of the first timers and young riders completing!

526.3 use of the whip (page 46)
f) The whip is not to be used more than three times for any one incident.

He broke that rule at least three times.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

The hiding OT gave his first ride after they had cleanly jumped the vicarage vee was appalling, go and re watch it if in any doubt. Caught clearly on tv, landed and did about 6 strides and he gave it at least 4 ruddy hard stripes on the off side.
I never usually comment but this was bang out of order imho.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Watching Townsend's second round again on iplayer -

5:27 he sets off. Horse gets a slap.
5:32 takes off a bit close, lands well, he hits the horse fives times behind the saddle after landing
5:34 one slap (no issue with this one)
5:35:50 horse gets hit five times on the neck after landing
5:36 after landing the horse gets two (strong) hits on his backside
5:38 after landing, the horse is hit five times on his neck
5:38:29 horse hit hard twice on approach (if it wasnt for the rest this one could perhaps be overlooked)

Then we get to the last two fences. It's hard to tell but between the penultimate and last fence I think it was fanning the whip only, or mostly (saw one definite hit)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065zgf4/badminton-horse-trials-2018-cross-country-live

5 times in 1 go?! Surely that's too much? Watching on catch up now so will be intrigued to see if it was needed etc but even then surely 5 isn't necessary. Sad he could win the grand slam despite this, also he's been warned for excessive whip use but he did it on both horses shouldn't he have a warning for each? When Pippa was riding for the grand slam she didn't seem to have that attitude. Obviously I'm not anywhere near that level so maybe he had a different feel but seems excessive

 

[scats]

Watching Townsend's second round again on iplayer -

5:27 he sets off. Horse gets a slap.
5:32 takes off a bit close, lands well, he hits the horse fives times behind the saddle after landing
5:34 one slap (no issue with this one)
5:35:50 horse gets hit five times on the neck after landing
5:36 after landing the horse gets two (strong) hits on his backside
5:38 after landing, the horse is hit five times on his neck
5:38:29 horse hit hard twice on approach (if it wasnt for the rest this one could perhaps be overlooked)

Then we get to the last two fences. It's hard to tell but between the penultimate and last fence I think it was fanning the whip only, or mostly (saw one definite hit)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065zgf4/badminton-horse-trials-2018-cross-country-live

And that’s only the fences they showed on the bbc...

I remember seeing him hit the second ride a few times near the end, when the horse was obviously flagging, and felt it unfair. I did feel he tackled the first part of the course rather aggressively and as a result wore the horse out.

I didn’t really clock how much he used the whip, but I was on my iPad at the time so was looking away a lot.

 

[be positive]

We also don't know if any riders have any conditions like asthma etc, and without a doubt the heat also affects the riders - especially those who aren't used to it!

I do think Harry Meade had the right idea, riding round in a short sleeve shirt lol

The point is that OT was not riding his horses sympathetically, as recognised by the ground jury, other riders were not given warnings, whether any of them suffer from ill health or not is irrelevant most did not look anywhere near as tired as Oli at the end and as the no1 rider he must be seen to abide by the rules and be an ambassador for the sport, he failed on both counts today.

 

[CoachinaCar]

Ollie Townsend spoilt Badminton for me, it was not good viewing. If he wins tomorrow it will be a sad day for Eventing. He should have been eliminated.

 

[fetlock]

5 times in 1 go?! Surely that's too much? Watching on catch up now so will be intrigued to see if it was needed etc but even then surely 5 isn't necessary. Sad he could win the grand slam despite this, also he's been warned for excessive whip use but he did it on both horses shouldn't he have a warning for each? When Pippa was riding for the grand slam she didn't seem to have that attitude. Obviously I'm not anywhere near that level so maybe he had a different feel but seems excessive

I missed his first round, and the second one was uncomfortable enough to watch so will skip going back to watch the first.
I agree with coachinacar - he should be eliminated. And yes, scats- what was he doing at the fences we didn't see.
I hope he doesn't win. What an advert for the sport.

 

[sasquatch]

The point is that OT was not riding his horses sympathetically, as recognised by the ground jury, other riders were not given warnings, whether any of them suffer from ill health or not is irrelevant most did not look anywhere near as tired as Oli at the end and as the no1 rider he must be seen to abide by the rules and be an ambassador for the sport, he failed on both counts today.

I must have misread your original post then. A lot of riders finished tired, and we didn't see all of them finish and how they finished. A lot of horses also finished tired, and interestingly those who seemed to go early and those who seemed to go later on seemed to have horses coming in the most tired - hard to say if this is coincidence or not.

I didn't like Oli's second round, but didn't think his first was that bad. Yes, his first horse was tired, but I thought he rode his first much better than his second. His second round looked like a tired horse and tired rider struggling to get round especially towards the end. He didn't ride like the world No. 1, and it'll be interesting to see what the horse inspection tomorrow brings up.

 

[TheMule]

Surely this is what the 25 penalty 'Abuse of horse' rule is for?He quite clearly contravenes the FEI rules so they should use the penalty system

 

[AdorableAlice]

There was a male rider who dropped his whip half way round. Nursed a tired horse home hands and heels. The horse kept going at a pace he could manage.

Mr Townend is a driven highly competitive man who has gained everything through dedication and hard work. Horses are merely a tool of his trade and with a huge sum of money up for grabs if he can win the Rolex title with a win at Badminton there was never any doubt he would thrash those horses round. He was sheepish when interviewed by Clare Balding and claimed the grey was nappy and difficult thereby using precious energy before he ran and therefore got tired too quickly.

He certainly has not done the sport any favours today. No one, horsey or not want to see brave honest horses being thrashed. One wonders how he treats the horses at home especially a non compliant one.