barefoot, I am getting seriously worried.

[Maddie Moo]

Here is the link - it's a private group so not sure you'll be able to see. https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18WJ1u1eGo/

I've just looked at the comment again and it's the OP who has said about natural release gel. Maybe it's a topical ointment, but can't say I've ever heard of such a thing.

My curiosity got the better of me and it seems to be an American product…although I’m not sure why they’d be using it on the heel as it reads like it’s for relieving joint or muscular pain like Deep Freeze / Deep Heat rather than rubs.

 

[Apizz2019]

My curiosity got the better of me and it seems to be an American product…although I’m not sure why they’d be using it on the heel as it reads like it’s for relieving joint or muscular pain like Deep Freeze / Deep Heat rather than rubs.

Ouch, imagine putting a deep freeze cream on broken skin.

 

[Reacher]

but we must be very wary of quoting Bowker, Ramey, Rooney (who actually does concur with quite a bit of what HM says), because their 'science' is based very much on data born out of cadaver studies.

The link I posted was to a peer reviewed study by Bowker et al rehabbing LIVE horses. Bowker himself owns horses which he trims to the protocols he recommends

One of their latest intakes had a retired Consultant Oncologist, a Dr in Ophthalmology, a pharmacist, and joins professions such as other medical doctors, teachers and even a human rights lawyer. Are they all gullible fools been drawn in by a cult leader who is a liar?

Perhaps you (a DVM) and your esteemed colleagues could present a scientific paper in a peer reviewed journal validating your theories

 

[Hoofstudies]

Eastenders version of the hoof movement.

Less than plausible storyline, terrible acting, and an annoying theme tune.

Okay, I made up the theme tune bit but every time CCC posted, I did do a little 'tada da da' in my mind.

You are incredibly funny and I had a smile as I sipped my coffee. .
You have the energy of an atom bomb!
Very clever!

 

[Hoofstudies]

You are incredibly funny and I had a smile as I sipped my coffee. .
You have the energy of an atom bomb!
Very clever!

I wonder if we can have a serious conversation now about about this trim group and discuss the science (if any) behind it. I certainly don’t want to learn in a vacuum and I’m happy to be corrected if I have said something that is wrong. That’s how we learn.

Not sure if we should start a new thread and chat it through.

However… not sure if my patience can cope if the parrot fashion mantra is used as any scientific reasoning? I get enough of that in my professional page and quite frankly they have no interest in listening to me or others and I just block them now.

I’d love to chat with other professionals in anatomy form and function but unfortunately I have too few folks to consult.
Even the top professionals don’t 100% agree with some aspects of the equine foot.
Example Prof Bowker and Prof Pollitt don’t agree on the suspensory apparatus of the distal phalanx share of the suspension.
KC La Pierre is looking into it more and has his own suspension theories that are more caudal foot related.

P3 palmar angle is argued about.
Strasser and Savoldi say zero, most others say 2-8 degrees whatever a straight bony column provides.

So this long toe in laminitis being left to have ground pressure to help healing and provide stability. That’s one of my biggest red flags. The nubs of feet left by trimmers in laminitis cases is going the opposite way, plus leaving heels to sky rocket.

There surely needs to be a balance to the 2 methods?

Long toe is one conversation.

The removal of sole to this supposed hard sole plane is my next concern. I see so many soles that are extremely thin. Removing anything I would feel is a huge mistake.

Without careful instruction, owners will be gouging out sole without realising the damage. I’ve seen that before with the bar gouging methods of other trim schools.

Let’s see if this thread will fly, or not.
And hope I don’t hear the east Enders theme too many times as we move forward. .

My transparency is that I study the equine foot by dissection. For around 7 years now. I do trim- I trim my herd and my livery customers. Plus trim for friends as needed.
My training is by following many trim methods plus being mentored by hoofcare professionals.

I have a M.Sc in chemical analysis and I am a Clinical Research Associate with 30 years experience

I’m not a competitive rider. I go for beach walks and stop in the time for a coffee with my horse.

If you would like any more info about me, please ask.

L