barefoot, I am getting seriously worried.

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Landcruiser said:
Their cult followers seem to be jumping on almost every post on the barefoot pages I follow on FB, recommending the poster to go to HM/Phoenix Way. It's bloody terrifying. So many owners are ignorant of hoof care and metabolism etc until things start going seriously and obviously wrong...and then they have no way of knowing who is giving the credible advice and recommendations. No doubt HM are scooping up many of these uneducated (hoof etc-wise) people and recruiting them. Poor horses.
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the cult followers ability to repeat the jargon word perfect is amazing.

Setchell seems very strange. She posts lots about vets are rubbish etc and I saw posts that horses are cured with their trim, don't need meds, vets are making lots of money out of prescribing drugs etc etc Not the reasonable approach of considering every case and every drug etc on it's merit for that particular horse. Most of all she hates science and seems to regard just about all of it, except hers, as rubbish.

then I saw that her qualification was a science degree. :rolleyes:
 
Landcruiser said:
Their cult followers seem to be jumping on almost every post on the barefoot pages I follow on FB, recommending the poster to go to HM/Phoenix Way. It's bloody terrifying. So many owners are ignorant of hoof care and metabolism etc until things start going seriously and obviously wrong...and then they have no way of knowing who is giving the credible advice and recommendations. No doubt HM are scooping up many of these uneducated (hoof etc-wise) people and recruiting them. Poor horses.
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Im also seeing this.
In fact there was a post by Prince fluffy kareem rescue about a donkey with holes drilled in its feet this morning and straight away there was a comment by one of the HM regulars to lower its heels to make ot better. Another one on an American page yesterday, a 29 year old horse with severe bone necrosis in p3 told to speak to Gawsworth and they'd be able to fix it. Its astoundingly stupid and very worrying
 
So a quick course and you can then know more than a farrier or vet about trimming 🙈
What qualifications have they got at this track place ? Probably not many if any

I wouldn’t want my horse paraded for all to see on their Facebook pages either
 
Follysmum said:
Where do all these people come from that follow ? Some are supposedly intelligent people . I know of a particular lady that was a strasser fanatic, she follows these people and I know from a professional she has previously been reported to the rspca as her horse was crippled with laminitis.
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when we had Strasser the first time around may of her followers and trimmers were very well educated ie degree level. There was also a vet who advocated her methods which was one reason why her trimmers had such support in the UK. fortunately that person learnt differently.
 
neighbothered said:
I wonder if it's a sense of belonging?
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yes very much, being part of a cult where people understand you. (cos the rest of us don't :D)

Thanks for your last post NB. It provides a very interesting insight.

there is a LOT of money to be made in running courses. It is in HM's interests to be rude to people. That means her merry band of pilgrims increase, remain in the fold and pay for lots of lovely courses etc. She is very much defending her profitable business. Her followers are defending who knows what because they certainly don't know. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Follysmum said:
So a quick course and you can then know more than a farrier or vet about trimming 🙈
What qualifications have they got at this track place ? Probably not many if any

I wouldn’t want my horse paraded for all to see on their Facebook pages is a make up artist i believe. No horse qualifications and proudly announces "she is not professional"
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Follysmum said:
So a quick course and you can then know more than a farrier or vet about trimming 🙈
What qualifications have they got at this track place ? Probably not many if any

I wouldn’t want my horse paraded for all to see on their Facebook pages either
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Track owner is a make up artist. No horse qualifications and proudly states she is not professional.
 
Nocturnal said:
Why do they bother setting up a track system if grass plays no part in laminitis, I wonder. Seems an awful lot of effort if it’s unrelated!
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Yeah, well, if it’s a properly engineered track, with solid horse fencing, the drainage, surfacing etc that doesn’t grow any grass - needs full planning permission.
Erstwhile grazing field has undergone a total change of use, and a proper track isn’t ‘temporary’ - it needs excavating back out to restore to the previous status.
Fair chance that if there are any shelter sheds on such a track, they’d also need full planning, especially if plumbed into utilities.
Just saying.
 
paddy555 said:
yeah, it's getting pretty exciting since yesterday and the post about Ernie (which Mark Johnson brought to light) with his owner discrediting HM. Ernie's owner posted this on FB
NOT go near this crowd which can only be described as a money making cult led by a woman who is either
insane or menopausal. (Having been there myself i know it's sometimes difficult to tell the
difference

now HM were not having that and replied, all guns blazing. :D

I've long given up on their trimming, long toes etc all of which are beyond me. The cult aspect is however fascinating. Many of these followers commenting have no idea technically about the trim or much else but their leader is under attack.

I am struggling to work out if horses get lami from EMS or even PPID or diet or presumably anything else eg steroids. Or if EVERY single case of lami is poor trimming.


I did ask Gawsworth a question about one of their conclusions but sadly not forth coming.
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GTL owner [Content removed]. Says laminitis is never caused by grass or diet, only by farriers and their rubbish skills! She has a lot to say for herself and I wouldn’t go NEAR the place.
 
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Miss_Millie said:
I'm troubled by the narrative being pushed that laminitis is not caused by diet, but by how the hoof is trimmed. They have stated many times that laminitis is not triggered by grass, it is caused by the hoof being trimmed 'incorrectly'. This is at odds with their advocating for grass free track systems and a hay only diet.

If laminitis is never triggered by grass, why is it more prevalent in overweight and obese horses? Why are horses with equine metabolic syndrome more likely to get laminitis if it is caused by the way the hoof is trimmed? Will a horse magically be cured of their metabolic syndrome if the hooves are trimmed using their method?

If we look at the bigger picture, it is sensible to assume that several factors can trigger laminitis, with the perfect storm being sudden fluctuations in the weather causing spikes in grass sugar levels, horses not getting enough exercise and becoming overweight, increased sugar causing general inflammation, lack of circulation in the hooves due to lack of movement and exercise.
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Utter rubbish. The vast majority of laminitis cases are endocrine-linked. Whether it’s systemic poisoning or linked to the diet (historically and cumulatively) The woman is very misguided in her thinking.
 
Landcruiser said:
Their cult followers seem to be jumping on almost every post on the barefoot pages I follow on FB, recommending the poster to go to HM/Phoenix Way. It's bloody terrifying. So many owners are ignorant of hoof care and metabolism etc until things start going seriously and obviously wrong...and then they have no way of knowing who is giving the credible advice and recommendations. No doubt HM are scooping up many of these uneducated (hoof etc-wise) people and recruiting them. Poor horses.
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It's already happening. I know of a new track livery which is offering laminitis rehab after doing their 3 day course, with this being their entire basis for rehabbing a laminitic. They made it apparent when they opened the track that they are a novice horse owner, so I find it worrying that they are now offering to take on and rehab horses with severe pathology with so little experience :(

brighteyes said:
GTL owner is like a cult leader. Says laminitis is never caused by grass or diet, only by farriers and their rubbish skills! She has a lot to say for herself and I wouldn’t go NEAR the place.
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The funny thing is, the aggressive messaging used to be grass is evil, you must feed a hay only diet with no supplements, grass will give your horse laminitis. I haven't followed them for years because I found their posts to be increasingly absurd, but all of this P3 rotation is a myth and the trim causes laminitis is their current spin on being as divisive as possible.

They're going for shock factor, it gets clicks, it brings revenue.
 
Miss_Millie said:
It's already happening. I know of a new track livery which is offering laminitis rehab after doing their 3 day course, with this being their entire basis for rehabbing a laminitic. They made it apparent when they opened the track that they are a novice horse owner, so I find it worrying that they are now offering to take on and rehab horses with severe pathology with so little experience :(



The funny thing is, the aggressive messaging used to be grass is evil, you must feed a hay only diet with no supplements, grass will give your horse laminitis. I haven't followed them for years because I found their posts to be increasingly absurd, but all of this P3 rotation is a myth and the trim causes laminitis is their current spin on being as divisive as possible.

They're going for shock factor, it gets clicks, it brings revenue.
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And have the new disciples gained full local authority planning permission to install the necessary infrastructure for their operation?
Just asking.
 
Exasperated said:
Yeah, well, if it’s a properly engineered track, with solid horse fencing, the drainage, surfacing etc that doesn’t grow any grass - needs full planning permission.
Erstwhile grazing field has undergone a total change of use, and a proper track isn’t ‘temporary’ - it needs excavating back out to restore to the previous status.
Fair chance that if there are any shelter sheds on such a track, they’d also need full planning, especially if plumbed into utilities.
Just saying.
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GTL do actually have full planning - i used to follow them on FB in the early days before they got shouty & weird. Big purpose built barn for shelter.

Bit dull for the horses IMO but I always thought ok for rehab purposes back when grass was sinful.
 
What I don't get about HM is that they show pictures of what they say is laminitic rotation where the pedal bone is parallel to the hoof wall, which is the very definition of NO rotation. Sure, the foot has been badly trimmed and the angles are all wrong, but it's not laminitic. Can't the followers see that?
.
 
ycbm said:
What I don't get about HM is that they show pictures of what they say is laminitic rotation where the pedal bone is parallel to the hoof wall, which is the very definition of NO rotation. Sure, the foot has been badly trimmed and the angles are all wrong, but it's not laminitic. Can't the followers see that?
.
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If the followers are your average horse owner the answer is no.

Most single horse owners never get to see any x rays for any reason, so are not capable of interpreting ones shown, especially if told that they ARE looking at something by an "expert".
 
ycbm said:
Strasser was herself a vet, I think.
.
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that works both ways. They hate professionals such as vets, totally useless so that is one view of S (who was a vet)
OTOH I did read one comment from one of their followers to the effect that people might have stopped S but they won't stop us. So presumably they like S's cult aspect.
 
rabatsa said:
If the followers are your average horse owner the answer is no.

Most single horse owners never get to see any x rays for any reason, so are not capable of interpreting ones shown, especially if told that they ARE looking at something by an "expert".
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I think the cult aspect works in the way people clicker train horses.

you have a new recruit, may not have seen an X ray before so they read it is rotated (or whatever)
they see next one that looks the same
then the next one and they all look the same, the leader must be onto something here.

by the time they get to about 5 all looking to their minds the same they venture to post. Nervously at first, they so want to be part of it. So they post could that foot possibly be rotated. Yes, the leader (no less than the leader) comes back. "well done" "well spotted" have a couple of smiley faces.
They have got a click from the clicker, they are part of it.

then another x ray and they can see it, mental self click. next few well it's obvious. How on earth can only the leader see it when other professionals can't. Brilliant leader
Newbie comes on the page so they can tell them they are correct it is rotation. Another smiley face from the leader. Big click that one.

Then a stranger ventures onto the page and we have the voice of dissent. Get behind the leader, back her up. Invaders must be repelled. They have learnt the jargon and are going to use it. "chop" that toe has been chopped. Such a simple word, that is what they do with vegetables so easy to understand. Don't need to understand take the toe back from underneath. Chopping the vegetables is far easier. :D

They still don't know if it is rotated but that doesn't really matter. Follow my leader.

Apologies for my cynical offering. 🤣
 
paddy555 said:
I think the cult aspect works in the way people clicker train horses.

you have a new recruit, may not have seen an X ray before so they read it is rotated (or whatever)
they see next one that looks the same
then the next one and they all look the same, the leader must be onto something here.

by the time they get to about 5 all looking to their minds the same they venture to post. Nervously at first, they so want to be part of it. So they post could that foot possibly be rotated. Yes, the leader (no less than the leader) comes back. "well done" "well spotted" have a couple of smiley faces.
They have got a click from the clicker, they are part of it.

then another x ray and they can see it, mental self click. next few well it's obvious. How on earth can only the leader see it when other professionals can't. Brilliant leader
Newbie comes on the page so they can tell them they are correct it is rotation. Another smiley face from the leader. Big click that one.

Then a stranger ventures onto the page and we have the voice of dissent. Get behind the leader, back her up. Invaders must be repelled. They have learnt the jargon and are going to use it. "chop" that toe has been chopped. Such a simple word, that is what they do with vegetables so easy to understand. Don't need to understand take the toe back from underneath. Chopping the vegetables is far easier. :D

They still don't know if it is rotated but that doesn't really matter. Follow my leader.

Apologies for my cynical offering. 🤣
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Spot on. Anyone who develops a cult like following usually does so by the above methods.
 
Gawsworth hold some very questionable views. Some of what they've been saying is factually incorrect. I hold firm by my views that you can't trim a good hoof...you have to grow one. The photos they've posted recently clearly prove this point. That said, if they can make some horses more comfortable and give them a better quality of life, then all to the good.
 
ycbm said:
What I don't get about HM is that they show pictures of what they say is laminitic rotation where the pedal bone is parallel to the hoof wall, which is the very definition of NO rotation. Sure, the foot has been badly trimmed and the angles are all wrong, but it's not laminitic. Can't the followers see that?
.
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They see what they want to see
paddy555 said:
Just for everyone's info. someone is button pushing on this thread. Parts of some posts have gone.

FO I have joined you, no longer on GTL FB page. :D:D:D I have never even posted on there. :rolleyes:
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Yeah I just checked they just straight deleted my comment - no arguing back - post has 4 comments on but only 3 visible. Obvs I am grateful I didn't get attacked but thing is a discussion of that study would be really interesting, it's certainly got big limitations (sample size of 3, all mares, no x rays just the assumption of rotation etc) but no.
🤷
 
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