Barefoot people - how is this OK?????

[HarlequinSeren]

Having seen some nasty accidents with angle grinders (both small and big!) the thought of that makes me feel sick
There is so much potential there for something to go wrong, if the hand slips or horse moves unexpectedly.. Maybe a professional can use one safely (or at least as safely as it can be) but there is no way she should be encouraging novice trimmers to use one.

 

[Ladyinred]

I wonder why she didn't get someone to proof read her site. It says, "I am a women, and I trim all our horses hooves with very little psychical effort."

Which means, of course, she's several females and doesn't have to use much mind-power to trim hooves.

She also claims to be psychic. I would prefer her to not use PHYSICAL effort lol.

 

[AmyMay]

This is why it's only a farrier that will ever go near my horse's feet.

 

[amandap]

I don't have much of a problem with using an appropriate grinder in principle, BUT let's face it how many owners are very proficient with power tools? Add to that learning to trim. As Oberon says it's far, far too easy to take too much off which is often the biggest problem with trimming.

As for only ever using a Farrier, scroll down to the second photo. http://www.equipodiatry.com/long_toe_underrun.html

 

[AmyMay]

As for only ever using a Farrier, scroll down to the second photo. http://www.equipodiatry.com/long_toe_underrun.html

What has this got to do with us here in the UK? Anyone can shoe a horse in the US.

 

[amandap]

Oh, do I really have to trawl for examples of bad UK shoeing?

 

[AmyMay]

Oh, do I really have to trawl for examples of bad UK shoeing?

Oh there will be lots of examples of bad UK shoeing - I won't make you go and look for them

I guess my POV is that I want to give my horses the best chance of being happy in their feet (with or without shoes). And to do this I use the best, professionally trained person I can. For me that is a farrier (and in my case an excellent one).

I'm really not anti barefoot - have had horses barefoot. My concern is over the unregulated nature of 'barefoot' trimmers. And the book in the original OP just goes to highlight those concerns. Learn from a book, and use a power tool. No one can believe that to be sensible can they.......?

 

[maggiesmum]

This is why it's only a farrier that will ever go near my horse's feet.

Thanks for tarring all trimmers with the same brush as Ms Bell - much appreciated!


I know a chap who managed to 'notch' out a 1.5" slot from his shin bone with just that type of grinder - admittedly it had a cutting blade in it at the time but still.... it was pretty unpleasant! The trouble with power tools is that what would be a mm too much with a hand rasp could be a cm too much with a grinder!
And that she advocates owners trimming their own horses with no instruction or knowledge makes a total mockery of everything we do and stand for, I have no problem with owners trimming their own but it looks much easier than it is and less is most definitely more!

 

[AmyMay]

deleted.

 

[amandap]

Oh there will be lots of examples of bad UK shoeing - I won't make you go and look for them

I guess my POV is that I want to give my horses the best chance of being happy in their feet (with or without shoes). And to do this I use the best, professionally trained person I can. For me that is a farrier (and in my case an excellent one).

I'm really not anti barefoot - have had horses barefoot. My concern is over the unregulated nature of 'barefoot' trimmers. And the book in the original OP just goes to highlight those concerns. Learn from a book, and use a power tool. No one can believe that to be sensible can they.......?

Oh goody!

You have every right to your well considered opinion but there are poor farriers as well as poor trimmers. The most common thing with shoeing seems to be not addressing other issues and shoeing and shaping a hoof that really needs other changes in it's life to improve. Mechanical means can only go so far in some cases.

Perhaps we should start saying we will only use a 'good' hoof care professional. That does mean we have to learn so we can judge as best we can though.

Anyway this thread is about teaching a trim to non professionals so I'll stop going off topic.

 

[ester]

I didn't have an issue with the grinder per se, it was more that it was on the tools list for when you are trimming after reading her excellent guide to how to trim .

 

[YasandCrystal]

If you choose to have your horse BF and you are working the horse regularly the feet should actually need very little if any intervention frankly, so I find this teaching owners to use power tools a terrible idea.

The whole point to me of barefoot is to let the horse be as natural as possible - that includes conformation warts and all and the feet will wear according to the horse's conformation. This is imo why so many unsoundness issues disappear when a horse goes BF, because the feet can wear unevenly, relieving the joints of stress.

A good farrier will take into account a horse's natural action and wear and unless he is dealing with a very young horse in which the bones have not set he will not try to straighten the horse as this will only lead to eventual unsoundness. My husband regularly recommends BF wherever he thinks a horse and owner are suited to it.

 

[TuscanBunnyGirl]

Yes I found this in Italy too when I did some stable work experience there, my boss said it was really hard to find someone who had decent skills to UK sort of standard in the area, and people told me lots of horrible stories. We could forget about remedial or specialist shoeing! If I lived somewhere like that I would be tempted to learn to trim myself, but on a proper course, not from a mis-spelt website.

Also I don't see the problem with appropriately designed power tools (used by a professional). Imagine if the dentist used a hand drill and chisel every time you needed a filling :-/

I currently live in Italy and I can totally agree. Finding a decent vet and farrier or even someone to handle a horse is a blooooming niiightmare!! I bought my mare from someone who had been galloping her around from god knows what ages then put into foal at 2.5yrs with a long shanked bit with metal bits bent round it like a cherry roller but the bits of metal were really thin and sticking out. She had a locking stifle and one vet came out just to give the all clear and didn't have a clue what it was despite me telling him and demanded she was put on a syringe of bute everyday...i got another vet out (who is fantastic!) and he said exercise obv.
Plenty of other horror stories but shall not hijack the thread any longer

 

[MagicMelon]

Erm, my barefoot trimmer uses a variation of an angle grinder. She doesnt use it in the way you're thinking though like chopping big bits off or anything. I personally would never do it (and my trimmer would never encourage me to do so) but then I would never want to trim my own horses feet anyway. I dont really see the problem with what tools are used as long as the horse is happy about it and at the end of it. My ponies hooves have never looked better and they are 10 times sounder than when I used to have them shod (one especially used to get 2 absesses a year when shod but not had one since being barefoot)!

 

[Oberon]

Thanks for tarring all trimmers with the same brush as Ms Bell - much appreciated!


I know a chap who managed to 'notch' out a 1.5" slot from his shin bone with just that type of grinder - admittedly it had a cutting blade in it at the time but still.... it was pretty unpleasant! The trouble with power tools is that what would be a mm too much with a hand rasp could be a cm too much with a grinder!
And that she advocates owners trimming their own horses with no instruction or knowledge makes a total mockery of everything we do and stand for, I have no problem with owners trimming their own but it looks much easier than it is and less is most definitely more!

And let's add to that the unpredictable nature of the horse. When you are working underneath a horse, you are extremely vulnerable at the best of times....add power tools to that and YIKES!

You just need the horse to spook the once while you are under there

.

 

[ester]

I think there is also a bit of a designed for purpose issue here too perhaps? electric rasps are designed to be electric rasps (I don't know that much about them though having only seen one once!), bench grinders.. well they possibly didn't have horses feet in mind and the safety implications that perhaps come with that when they were designing them.

 

[sarelis]

There is no way in this world that I would be tempted to take an angle grinder to my horse's hooves! I won't employ an EDT who uses power tools as a matter of course either. Too much accidental damage can be done in so little time. Think I'll stick with my farrier, thanks!

 

[Oliviaandsparrow]

About the EDT with power tools - have you ever actually felt one? They are not sharp, at all. As in, I have had one (turned on) run across my finger and its like a felt pad. They are designed to remove enamel etc, they do not cut flesh

 

[cptrayes]

About the EDT with power tools - have you ever actually felt one? They are not sharp, at all. As in, I have had one (turned on) run across my finger and its like a felt pad. They are designed to remove enamel etc, they do not cut flesh

Enamel is a lot harder than flesh, I'm sure they can remove flesh if they can remove enamel, applied with the right pressure and if the flesh mash is washed out of the cutting edges as you go!

They can also burn and they can be overused. There has been a horse on this forum who had such a burnt tongue that he would not eat, probably because his teeth got so hot from the dremel. He'll be lucky if his teeth are still alive and keep growing. And an EDT/Vet dual qualified, scalped my horse's teeth so flat that he has not had anything to take off them for over two years now.

All tools can be wrongly used and personally I don't think there's anything wrong with a small angle grinder with the right disc on it, for doing really tough hooves. With the right disc it is not a power cutter it is simply a powerful sander.


The woman is an idiot, of course, you can tell that from her website. I'd love to read the book but I'm *****ed if I'm paying her for it, I can get a free laugh watching the telly

 

[cptrayes]

I think there is also a bit of a designed for purpose issue here too perhaps? electric rasps are designed to be electric rasps (I don't know that much about them though having only seen one once!), bench grinders.. well they possibly didn't have horses feet in mind and the safety implications that perhaps come with that when they were designing them.

Ester the early power tools that dentists began to use were not designed for horse teeth, they were multi-purpose dremels. The need for horse tools was established by the unorthodox use by horse dentists. I predict the same will happen here and that in future there will be a range of power tools for farriers and trimmers designed for the job.

 

[ester]

ah I didn't realise that! *slopes back off to her corner *

 

[giveitago]

Well, i went one further and contacted her to request she remove her 'book' from sale.

I pointed out she may be liable for any horses that may go lame as a result of her trimming advice. Or, possibly the death of some.

Somehow, money speaks louder than care in these cases and I hope someone will alert her to the dangers of her trimming before we lose dozens of horses like the strasser situation a few years ago.

 

[marc]

I use a dremel for hoof wall resections and debriding hoof wall cracks, however they are easily shut off and as long as you leg wrap the chances of damage are very minimal. Angle grinders are workshop tools and shouldnt be near horses feet, if you dont have the knowledge of how to sharpen a hoof knife then you shouldn't be trimming a horse END OF! A sharp knife is a safe knife.

The problem these days is we have all these horse hippys that like to feed their herbs and keep their horse barefoot even if its slowly crippling them. They are just as cruel as the folks who dont feed their horses. Of course there are many horses that cope brilliantly with no shoes and correct trimming. I have never seen a well balanced hoof by a barefoot trimmer that allows the hoof to function naturally and remain sound

 

[amandap]

I have never seen a well balanced hoof by a barefoot trimmer that allows the hoof to function naturally and remain sound

Oh dear. What a shame because there are one or two.
http://www.barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/stunning-barefoot-trot-beats-snow.html

Cop a load of this BF hoof trimmed by a trimmer. Ever seen a shod one like it?
http://www.barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/in-eye-of-beholder.html

Here's a few more. http://www.right2remainshoeless.com/html/pin_up_s.html

 

[cptrayes]

I have never seen a well balanced hoof by a barefoot trimmer that allows the hoof to function naturally and remain sound

There are four on this horse Marc:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EuL6xpZs-q4/TqCNep9gtKI/AAAAAAAAAxM/K6BUGQ9p5ZA/s400/radar+hedge.jpg


There are eight more on my other two horses. You really don't move in the right circles, you know, there are hundreds of us with horses with great barefoot feet

 

[amandap]

Just look at this laminitic go on his trimmer trimmed hooves. From the same blog above. http://www.barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/shining-light-on-laminitis.html

I wont bother to bore everyone with more stuff that inspires me.

 

[abitodd]

This woman makes me shudder and I also worry that some idiot will think it ok to take her advice - am glad that most barefooters seem to have more sense but I find it absolutely astounding that someone can actually seriously set herself up as an expert like this, she does your barefoot cause no favours

Is there a governing body that a complaint could be made to? I really think this woman should be stopped from spouting her garbage at novice trimmers.

Sadly she or anyone can set themselves up as an expert because there is yet to be a governing body for barefoot trimmers. The animal wellfare groups are keen to create regulations and standards. Let's hope they do.

 

[amandap]

Some of the barefoot organizations, and farriers I believe, have been working with LANTRA for some while (years lol) now to agree standards for trimming.

 

[YorksG]

Sadly she or anyone can set themselves up as an expert because there is yet to be a governing body for barefoot trimmers. The animal wellfare groups are keen to create regulations and standards. Let's hope they do.

Totally agree with this.

 

[abitodd]

The problem these days is we have all these horse hippys that like to feed their herbs and keep their horse barefoot even if its slowly crippling them. They are just as cruel as the folks who dont feed their horses. Of course there are many horses that cope brilliantly with no shoes and correct trimming. I have never seen a well balanced hoof by a barefoot trimmer that allows the hoof to function naturally and remain sound

All that time spent in your apprenticeship on lighting the forge was not wasted then. You certainly know how to fan the flames!