Bert is very lame.

[gallopingby]

I hope Bert is better soon SO1. In my experience it’s always better to ask a farrier to check for a foot abscess before a vet. They have more experience in looking and trimming feet and a good farrier can usually pin point an abscess in a few minutes. Vets are great at supplying medication etc if pain relief is required but with an abscess this isnt always helpful initially as it may hide the pain.

 

[SO1]

I hope Bert is better soon SO1. In my experience it’s always better to ask a farrier to check for a foot abscess before a vet. They have more experience in looking and trimming feet and a good farrier can usually pin point an abscess in a few minutes. Vets are great at supplying medication etc if pain relief is required but with an abscess this isnt always helpful initially as it may hide the pain.

Farrier is due next week so they can look as well. I don't think he is anywhere near lame enough for it to be an abcesses. I am hoping it is hoof bruise.

 

[criso]

Farrier is due next week so they can look as well. I don't think he is anywhere near lame enough for it to be an abcesses. I am hoping it is hoof bruise.

Tigger wasn't at first. It was probably 2 weeks between first being lame to reacting to hoof testers and abscess with days of being totally sound. It was just brewing. We even did a full set of hoof X rays.

 

[ycbm]

Farrier is due next week so they can look as well. I don't think he is anywhere near lame enough for it to be an abcesses. I am hoping it is hoof bruise.

They can have an abscess and be sound, on three legs, anywhere in between and frequently all of those changing around in the duration of one abscess as it makes more space for itself.

Personally I'd rather have an abscess easily accounted for by wet conditions than a bruise where you might have to question how strong his soles are. IMO abscesses are also over and done with before bruises (unless the abscess results from a bruise).

I'm hoping for a bit of pus soon for you.
.

 

[Sossigpoker]

As this has been going on for a while and you've had not very insightful vet visits, personally I'd bite the bullet and ask for a referral. It is possible that the fore leg lameness is compensatory pain from the hind end lameness.
I doubt it's caused by a saddke ,.the saddle would need to be seriously horrendously bad to actually cause lameness. It is far more likely that he has back pain due to the lameness, and this is exacerbated by having a saddle and rider on board.

Why not have him referred and possibly bone scanned ? My boy had so many hot spots in his front end , that were clear on x-ray ,.so caused by his hock lameness and SI pain.
Hock arthritis is very common, even in young horses and the toe dragging is a common symptom of this.

Have you x-rayed his hocks?

 

[SO1]

As this has been going on for a while and you've had not very insightful vet visits, personally I'd bite the bullet and ask for a referral. It is possible that the fore leg lameness is compensatory pain from the hind end lameness.
I doubt it's caused by a saddke ,.the saddle would need to be seriously horrendously bad to actually cause lameness. It is far more likely that he has back pain due to the lameness, and this is exacerbated by having a saddle and rider on board.

Why not have him referred and possibly bone scanned ? My boy had so many hot spots in his front end , that were clear on x-ray ,.so caused by his hock lameness and SI pain.
Hock arthritis is very common, even in young horses and the toe dragging is a common symptom of this.

Have you x-rayed his hocks?

His hocks were X rayed in August as part of his 5 stage vetting and were clean so it would be surprising if they were now arthritic.

If he is still lame on Tuesday then we will definitely do more investigations.

Vet doesn't at the moment think it is laminitis which of course is always a risk with natives and we do have good grazing. He is having his wolf teeth removed today which needed to be done.

I am also getting a muzzle sorted for him as he is resting for week and they have moved fields on to a rested field with lot of long grass last week. Homey's flexible filly muzzle should hopefully fit Bert just need some new cable ties which should arrive tomorrow or Friday.

 

[SO1]

I am feeling really anxious about Bert and terrified this lameness is laminitis. Vet didn't think so when he saw him yesterday but they moved fields last week into a rested winter field with loads of grass and his weight has gradually crept up.

I would never have let Homey into a field like that without a muzzle but I let my eye off the ball because my focus has been on my parents since my mum became so ill the day after I bought Bert. I should have sorted out a muzzle for him earlier but I thought if he was being ridden 5 times a week his weight could be under control and it was winter and his weight was good and once his saddle was sorted we could really up his work and canter and jump.

I am hoping Homey's thinline muzzle will fit but Bert nose a bit smaller. Bert never worn a muzzle before and I can't just introduce it gradually because of working. Part of me feels like I should just put him on box rest to get him off the grass. I think I will try and speak to vet about it. I absolutely hate box rest and vet said when Bert had the stifle problem he needed to be out moving for that really. If it is laminitis it is totally my fault for not keeping a closer eye on his weight and being more organised. I feel I have let Bert down a bit as laminitis is one thing that is totally preventable.

It is very bad timing that the lameness started just a few days before they had to move fields.

 

[tda]

SO1, I personally would not box rest until vet finds something, just get him started with the muzzle

 

[gallopingby]

If it was laminitis the chances are the vet would have picked up an increased pulse when he looked at Bert. Sometimes the best thing is to ignore comments on the internet most people making them won’t have a clue about the situation or the way people are looking after their horses. This winter has been particularly wet and that can cause all sorts of foot problems particularly abscesses which can take a while to show. If you’re really unhappy you could limit the amount of time he’s out grazing which might make you worry less. Equally he could have a bruised sole. It doesn’t sound as if the lameness is severe. The best thing is to carry on with sufficient exercise and see what the farrier says when he comes.

 

[SO1]

If it was laminitis the chances are the vet would have picked up an increased pulse when he looked at Bert. Sometimes the best thing is to ignore comments on the internet most people making them won’t have a clue about the situation or the way people are looking after their horses. This winter has been particularly wet and that can cause all sorts of foot problems particularly abscesses which can take a while to show. If you’re really unhappy you could limit the amount of time he’s out grazing which might make you worry less. Equally he could have a bruised sole. It doesn’t sound as if the lameness is severe. The best thing is to carry on with sufficient exercise and see what the farrier says when he comes.

Thank you, yes I have to trust the vet to some degree. He is an advanced practitioner in equine lameness. He wants him on field rest so no exercise other than what Bert feels like doing in his field.

His hooves were xrayed as part of his vetting by my vet who did his vetting. He thought Bert was super and really liked him. He doesn't have a 100% clean sheet though he did pass. It did say mild flare medial wall both front feet and mild medio-lateral unbalance from feet advised good farriery to keep balance. Unshod and due for trimming (10 weeks). So I expect anything to do with hooves will be excluded on his insurance. Vet did say when he saw him for his stifle lameness back in October that his hooves were looking really much better since my farrier has been doing him every 5 weeks.

 

[scats]

I wouldn’t rule out laminitis. I’ve had a vet miss it because the horse never had raised pulses.
Get a muzzle on him and get his hay soaked when he is in. Definitely won’t do any harm.

 

[w1bbler]

It could be anything, stop guessing & stressing ( easier said than done)
If you trust your vet, then follow their advise. Otherwise get him in somewhere for the full work up, xrays etc.
Fwiw one of mine had front left, rear hind issue, which turned out to be npa & kissing spines. Nor suggesting that is berts issue, just an example of the many things I could be

 

[SEL]

I wouldn’t rule out laminitis. I’ve had a vet miss it because the horse never had raised pulses.
Get a muzzle on him and get his hay soaked when he is in. Definitely won’t do any harm.

Grass is definitely growing. I can't see it in my winter field because any shoots are being guzzled but the rested fields are suddenly very green.

A muzzle won't hurt. Our natives are designed to live on fresh air.

I hope you get answers soon @SO1

 

[SO1]

Have spoken to my vet this morning he says he wants him out because of his stifles which went really stiff last time when we put him on box rest when he was lame on right hind. On a more positive note he said he is good behind on his stifles.

He said I need to take reasonable precautions to prevent laminitis but on balance it was better for him to be out than in even though there is loads of grass in the rested field. Hopefully Homey's thinline flexible filly muzzle will fit him.

Vet thinks it is a hoof bruise at this stage.

He is also going to review his hoof xrays from when he is vetted and has suggested farrier also look at him next week and he will come back to review him on Friday. He also said his wolf teeth removal was complicated as they were massive and he is not sure he got them all out so will return to look at them

I just looked at his vetting and we did x ray his stifles and they were clear.

 

[#jackofallmasterofnone]

Might be off on the timing of this but is the slight ridden lameness after the teeth were removed? Previous experience of slight lameness (appeared to be left fore) which only presented under saddle when being picked up for work - which resolved when vet found and removed a broken fragment of tooth which had been missed during extraction.

 

[SO1]

Might be off on the timing of this but is the slight ridden lameness after the teeth were removed? Previous experience of slight lameness (appeared to be left fore) which only presented under saddle when being picked up for work - which resolved when vet found and removed a broken fragment of tooth which had been missed during extraction.

He needed his wolf teeth removing they were big and we decided to get them removed now as he is having some time off so the wolf teeth removal was done yesterday.

 

[SO1]

He managed to break the cable ties on his muzzle on Friday and miraculously I managed to find the plastic section in the big field using my torch I had almost given up looking for it when I found it. They have 3 fields to roam in so it could have been in any of them. I attached it to a different field safe head collar and thankfully it remained on today. The yard have put him and another pony who is not being exercised on soaked hay just as an extra precaution.

As it is so mild we have also decided Bert can be naked as he is not clipped so he won't wear his rug for the time being. The other native pony and cob in the group are also naked as well now.

Still hoping it is as my vet thinks it is a hoof bruise or bruised sole which I know can take a quite a while to get better but that is a lot better than the start of laminitis. The farrier will look at him next week and vet back on Friday to review him and also check his wolf teeth removal which was a lot harder to do than anticipated and he is not sure he managed to get them all out. He really did need them removing so at least that is out the way.

 

[SO1]

Farrier saw him today. YO horses and most part liveries all have farrier on same day every 5 weeks. Farrier could not see anything obvious wrong with Bert hooves. YO said he just said he is bare and if he stood on a stone he would really feel it. She said she tried to get him to elaborate on that as I said was it thin soles and she said no something to do with wet weather possibly. I think because it was so busy with many horses being seen today it was hard for YO to have time to get farrier to explain exactly what he meant. Farrier and vet know each other so I expect vet can speak to farrier.

Vet coming on Friday morning and I have managed to get morning off work to be there. I expect we may end up going down the nerve block route. He has not been trotted up since vet last came as he just said field rest so may well be better on Friday.

It is tricky not being able to be there for all the appointments due to work but luckily YO and grooms can be around.

 

[SO1]

Spoke to YO yesterday and she said the farrier said Bert's hooves were washed out and would be better in the summer but she didn't what that meant. I did some searching and there is a mention of "washed out" on here in relation to retracted soles. So I am going to ask the vet if it could be that when I see him this morning.

Retracted are caused by wet weather and it appears you have to wait for the hooves to grow for it to improve.

It has been very wet and whilst Bert doesn't live out he does get more turnout than a lot of horses get at this time of year and much more than he got in his previous home. We do have plenty of grass so he is not standing in mud but it is very wet.

 

[SO1]

Good news. Bert much better. Vet even commented on how nice his paces are. He thinks it is hoof bruising he is still not 100% but lots better. We are just getting to know Bert and we think he is potentially sensitive with pain and so something quite minor and he presents possibly like his leg is about to fall off. Whereas Homey was very stoic.

Vet also removed the rest of his giant wolf teeth which were really complicated to remove. He was doing it for over an hour last week but the remainder came out quickly today.

Bert still has to be on field rest because of his wolf teeth but vet will come back and review him on Wednesday.

He is took blood for an EMS test just to be on the safe side. He has been muzzled and on soaked hay since last Wednesday. He is also having the new encisted red worm blood test vet recommended this instead of worming if it comes back low to prevent resistance. His normal FEC counts are low and so is his saliva test.

 

[SO1]

Vet back this morning. Bert sound on the soft in the school but now lame on the other front leg and footsore over stones. It is quite stony in places on the yard and to get to the field he does have to walk though a stony patch.

Vet doesn't think it is laminitis or anything sinister but thinks it is due to the wet weather. Farrier said his hooves were washed out. Vet said whilst ideally it would be better for him to be barefoot he has recommended shoeing his front feet. He is on part livery and I can't expect the yard staff to put hoof boots on him to get him to and from the field over the stoney bits and he would not be able to hack out without shoes or boots. Vet said he also needs time for his hooves to grow more as well.

Vet also did an EMS test last week when he came and his insulin was 13.5 so below the 30 threshold though his adiponectin was in the grey zone at 9.4 ideally should be 10 or above with 8 being the point where there is a laminitis risk. I put him on soaked hay and muzzled him as a precaution when he went lame when the vet looked at him.

He will need to be sedated for the farrier as he has never be shod before and is quite nervous. So that needs to be arranged at a time vet can come.

It is a real shame as I had hoped to keep him barefoot but at least this batch of lameness doesn't sound serious. Vet said it has been so wet and he has seen 5 cases of abcesses this week alone. He doesn't think Bert has an abcess at the moment.

One of the other horses who is unshod also has had some issues with lameness and their vet also thinks it is bruising due to the weather and recommended shoeing but they are DIY and it is easier for them to manage with boots if need be so they are not shoeing and their horse is now better.

 

[Gloi]

Look up Hoof Armour and then boots for hacking

 

[SO1]

Look up Hoof Armour and then boots for hacking

I can't do boots because yard cannot manage putting them on and off to get him to and from the field unfortunately.

I am not sure what hoof armour is is that something a farrier could do?

 

[Gloi]

I can't do boots because yard cannot manage putting them on and off to get him to and from the field unfortunately.

I am not sure what hoof armour is is that something a farrier could do?

You do it yourself, it's easy.You buy an applicator and refills of tubes of the stuff. It puts a tough layer on the hooves which toughens the sole and also will stop them suffering in the wet. I've used it for 2 years now and only need to use boots on tough rides.

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[Snow Falcon]

I had similar with Heidi last year. I ended up having her shod after vet recommendation. She'd been barefoot for 3 years prior to that. Her soles were spongy. EMS test negative. Sometimes you have to do what is best for them.

 

[SEL]

You can always take shoes off again when you've got some decent growth. Better that than a constantly sore horse in wet weather

 

[SO1]

I had similar with Heidi last year. I ended up having her shod after vet recommendation. She'd been barefoot for 3 years prior to that. Her soles were spongy. EMS test negative. Sometimes you have to do what is best for them.

Hopefully Bert will get used to it as £££ if he needs vet to sedate every 5 weeks.

He did not get so much turnout at his previous home and so I expect he did not get his hooves exposed to so much wet conditions.

Homey was shod on his fronts and then in his later years on his hinds as well as his hooves were getting worn down quickly.

 

[Snow Falcon]

What a shame. Is he difficult for the farrier then?

 

[criso]

I can't do boots because yard cannot manage putting them on and off to get him to and from the field unfortunately.

I am not sure what hoof armour is is that something a farrier could do?

I think gloi meant hoof boots for hacking which you could do and hoof armour for general strengthening for turnout.

Surprised yard won't though. I actually had hoof boots over shoes when Frankie was shod as he used to pull shoes weekly and my very basic no frills part livery yard were happy to put them on. You could leave them on in the field which is less work. Then no worse than all the turnout boots and overreach boots lots of people need.

Just it's going to be difficult to get him shod if he needs sedating and having to organise the vet and farrier together not just for routine but if he pulls a shoe between shoeing.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would just give him sedalin for the farrier chances are he will be fine, and alot of farriers don't like them sedated by the vet because they are often too out of it and it makes it hard work for them.