Bert is very lame.

[Patterdale]

Oh thanks I’m nice and calm now you’ve said that, I was bloody hysterical before.

Not

 

[SO1]

Calm down. People were suggesting how boots could be an option because the horse is likely to need sedating to be shod .

Only the OP can decide which route to take

Had two great rides on him in the school this weekend he is very relaxed but moving nicely off the leg and trotting well and I felt very confident riding him. But it is stoney to get him from the field and he is quite ouchy if he stands on one. It is hard to see where the stones are when they are under water to avoid them as there is a big puddle. He can't do any hacking until he gets his shoes and I have started putting Keratex on his soles.

Farrier coming on 13 March. I can't be there as have 4 work meetings that day and vet agreed that it would be OK to wait till then which is when the yard Farrier is next there to do all the horses. It is easier for the yard staff for him to be sedated as they have limited time to be with him to feed him nuts or reassure him. Depending on when the Farrier next comes after that I am going to try and take the day off so I can be with Bert and reassure him a bit and hopefully he will eventually be OK to be shod without sedation. It has been a bit tricky with taking time off work recently and the reason I am on part livery is due to work and family commitments.

He was perfect weight when he was weighed back in November but he has put on weight when they moved fields and during his time off and I can't feel his ribs anymore. He has been on soaked hay and muzzle since he went lame to try and prevent more weight gain. There is a lot of grass and only 4 in the gelding herd now as one person left and another horse on box rest. It is going to take a while for the grass to get eaten down and the big horses need the grass.

He has managed to keep the muzzle intact all week but we have had some problems with muzzle rubbing due to eating out the sides. It is really too big I think, he inherited this muzzle from Homey. I have put sheepskin and fleece on to the muzzle this weekend and will see how it goes this week but might have to take it off for a bit but want to try and avoid that if possible until he is back down to idea weight again and I can feel his ribs again. If remains in work it will probably only take a couple of weeks.

I have ordered the pony size muzzle and invested in the thinline cob size headcollar for him which has keepers for the cable ties and the padding so hopefully that will arrive next week. It is a bit frustrating as the other 4 horses on the yard who use flexible filly have no rubbing, and if he was clipped and in full work like the connemara in his field he probably wouldn't need it.

I am really hoping the shoes will do the front shoes will do the trick. At the moment at least he can be ridden in the school and just building his fitness up again gradually. Thankfully no sign of the stifle issue and vet said he looks great behind and he has lovely paces. My vet is a horse owner himself.

I just hope the bad luck with lameness has come to an end and he can get fit and slim again and be in the field without his muzzle.

 

[SO1]

And he is lame again. Vet back out tomorrow. Instructor rode him today and YO sent video to vet. Vet said he is not surprised and thinks it is wet weather hoof issue again.

Instructor had ridden him on Friday and thought he was not 100% and thought it was saddle but possibly lame. I rode him to see how he was on Saturday changed the numnah on saddle to one without shims. Instructor was riding another horse whilst I was on Bert and said he looked fine. Rode him on Sunday YO watched and said he looked fine. He was turbo charged and felt really well.

New horse was introduced to the field on Wednesday and Bert has had some time without his muzzle to get used to the new horse so my concern is that this might be laminitis.

Vet doesn't think so from looking at the video and wanted to put him on field rest again till the farrier can shoe him on 13th. I don't want Bert on field rest again till he has been checked for laminitis as he is a bit overweight due to his time on field rest and then only being in light work for last couple of weeks due to saddle issues.

 

[Michen]

So sorry. Has he had any nerve blocks? Sorry if he has and I missed it. At this point I’d want a full work up with blocks to ensure it really is his feet.

I’m not sure how you can check for laminitis other than x rays for any possible rotation, or I suppose an MRI for inflamed laminae. I’m assuming he doesn’t have obviously hot feet or pulses.

 

[Patterdale]

How lame is he? Did he ever get his shoes on?

 

[SO1]

How lame is he? Did he ever get his shoes on?

I was not able to be there for vet appointment due to work. It was very difficult to have conversation with vet due being on the way to work. He is not that lame and he has said he can be lunged. He is ademant the problem is due to wet weather and once he is shod will be ok.

I am actually thinking of selling him once he is sound due to work commitments and struggling to be able to control his grazing I may not the best home for him. I am never going to be in a job where I can just take lots of time off at short notice for vet, saddler, physio etc. I probably going to have to cancel saddler due to work commitments. I only have 1.5 hours in the evenings by the time I get to the yard after work to deal with anything at the yard which is just not enough time. I also am away at least one weekend a month due to my parents. I don't think it is actually feasible to have a horse when I have to work full time. In order to be able to afford a horse I need to work full time. Part livery is good but they are getting stressed with having to deal with so many appointments etc.

If he didn't need so much vet stuff and was a horse I could turn out and not worry about laminitis it would be easier. But with any horse they might need a lot of vet stuff and that is not compatible with working full time.

 

[SEL]

I was not able to be there for vet appointment due to work. It was very difficult to have conversation with vet due being on the way to work. He is not that lame and he has said he can be lunged. He is ademant the problem is due to wet weather and once he is shod will be ok.

I am actually thinking of selling him once he is sound due to work commitments and struggling to be able to control his grazing I may not the best home for him. I am never going to be in a job where I can just take lots of time off at short notice for vet, saddler, physio etc. I probably going to have to cancel saddler due to work commitments. I only have 1.5 hours in the evenings by the time I get to the yard after work to deal with anything at the yard which is just not enough time. I also am away at least one weekend a month due to my parents. I don't think it is actually feasible to have a horse when I have to work full time. In order to be able to afford a horse I need to work full time. Part livery is good but they are getting stressed with having to deal with so many appointments etc.

If he didn't need so much vet stuff and was a horse I could turn out and not worry about laminitis it would be easier. But with any horse they might need a lot of vet stuff and that is not compatible with working full time.

You've got a lot going on in your life but I remember you saying how much you missed having a horse. There will be other livery yards if this one isn't suitable and there are many, many people who work full time with horses. If this just isn't the right time though to have a horse that's also ok.

I think it's worth you getting a pair of hoof boots so you can see if it's a foot issue - although farrier is next week I think? In which case you'll know once that's done.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I was not able to be there for vet appointment due to work. It was very difficult to have conversation with vet due being on the way to work. He is not that lame and he has said he can be lunged. He is ademant the problem is due to wet weather and once he is shod will be ok.

I am actually thinking of selling him once he is sound due to work commitments and struggling to be able to control his grazing I may not the best home for him. I am never going to be in a job where I can just take lots of time off at short notice for vet, saddler, physio etc. I probably going to have to cancel saddler due to work commitments. I only have 1.5 hours in the evenings by the time I get to the yard after work to deal with anything at the yard which is just not enough time. I also am away at least one weekend a month due to my parents. I don't think it is actually feasible to have a horse when I have to work full time. In order to be able to afford a horse I need to work full time. Part livery is good but they are getting stressed with having to deal with so many appointments etc.

If he didn't need so much vet stuff and was a horse I could turn out and not worry about laminitis it would be easier. But with any horse they might need a lot of vet stuff and that is not compatible with working full time.

I feel this. I work full time (which is a minimum of 40 hours in my current country) and have been dreading my young horse becoming a ridden horse and/or needing more from me.

I think it's fine if you end up selling. You can always return to horses later in as life/your bandwidth allows if you'd like to. I'm 50/50 on the horse thing most days in respect to it being worth it. It takes a lot out of me and I only have one, and he's fairly straight forward. It can be mentally taxing, and if you feel like you're at or close to your limit, it's ok to step away.

Ideally the lameness and grazing could get sorted, and that would be a huge relief. Balancing appointments is hard because they're often during normal working hours. I'm sorry that you're going through all of this, especially on the back of losing your last horse. I know that many get joy from this hobby, but it can also be absolutely brutal.

 

[Michen]

I honestly don’t understand why the vet would come back out and not just put a simple block to ensure his theory is feasible, in a pony that keeps going lame.

Nor would I lunge an unsound horse.

Sorry SO1 it’s so stressful and if you decide to sell once he’s sound you can always come back to it.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Regarding the soundness, I wouldn't lunge either. I also would want blocks and further investigation. So I agree with Michen on that.

 

[Birker2020]

And he is lame again. Vet back out tomorrow. Instructor rode him today and YO sent video to vet. Vet said he is not surprised and thinks it is wet weather hoof issue again.

Instructor had ridden him on Friday and thought he was not 100% and thought it was saddle but possibly lame. I rode him to see how he was on Saturday changed the numnah on saddle to one without shims. Instructor was riding another horse whilst I was on Bert and said he looked fine. Rode him on Sunday YO watched and said he looked fine. He was turbo charged and felt really well.

New horse was introduced to the field on Wednesday and Bert has had some time without his muzzle to get used to the new horse so my concern is that this might be laminitis.

Vet doesn't think so from looking at the video and wanted to put him on field rest again till the farrier can shoe him on 13th. I don't want Bert on field rest again till he has been checked for laminitis as he is a bit overweight due to his time on field rest and then only being in light work for last couple of weeks due to saddle issues.

Sorry I have been off the forum for a while and not seen your post for ages, but I'm sorry to hear Bert is lame again.

I am having a real nightmare with Lari, he obviously isn't ridden as at retirement and barefoot. He is really struggling and has his fourth abscess since last October. The farrier and vet have both looked at him and have said its due to the constant rain and standing in the wet (he is out 24/7) so isn't standing on a nice shavings bed overnight to dry out his feet. HIs soles are very thin and sore, I am praying that the weather dries up quickly. This year is unprecedented in terms of constant wet rain and therefore mud and there is no escaping it. There are lots of horses I have heard who are suffering from thin soles/abscesses including a number of horses at the retirement yard also suffering from mud fever and rainscald due to the constant wet. The poor YO is really down with it all, she says she only ever had one case of mud fever in a herd of 20+ over the last dozen or so years, and now quite a few have it.

I guess I'm trying to say try not to panic too much, I'm sure once the drier weather comes we will be worrying about something else like dry brittle hooves instead! I know how much it can get you down. I think I'm going to start putting something like Keratex or a hoof hardener preperation on Lari's feet over the summer in preparation for Winter 2024/25.

 

[Tiddlypom]

My vet has said that many horses are suffering from softened and weakened soles due to the relentless wet weather.

My senior Cushing’s mare is one of them. Recently I had lateral x rays of all 4 feet done on her fearing that there might be laminitic rotation going on - I trim her myself. But no, her foot balance is not bad and there is no rotation. She has always had very thin soles.

Vets suggestion is Keratex hoof hardener, which you apply to the soles daily for a week then two or three times a week after - and it’s really helped her a lot. It’s been a reprieve from PTS, which was on the cards. She’s still being carefully monitored, but she’s much happier.

If Bert has sore feet due to the wet weather he will become much happier instantly if he has hoof boots on. Just to test him out on the yard if you can borrow a pair. All shoes will do is to lift his soles further off the ground, and that alone might well help him.

I’m not impressed with a vet who will die on a hill of a horse having a certain condition which persists without confirming it by nerve blocks or other investigations.

 

[Birker2020]

My vet has said that many horses are suffering from softened and weakened soles due to the relentless wet weather.

My senior Cushing’s mare is one of them. Recently I had lateral x rays of all 4 feet done on her fearing that there might be laminitic rotation going on - I trim her myself. But no, her foot balance is not bad and there is no rotation. She has always had very thin soles.

Vets suggestion is Keratex hoof hardener, which you apply to the soles daily for a week then two or three times a week after - and it’s really helped her a lot. It’s been a reprieve from PTS, which was on the cards. She’s still being carefully monitored, but she’s much happier.

If Bert has sore feet due to the wet weather he will become much happier instantly if he has hoof boots on. Just to test him out on the yard if you can borrow a pair. All shoes will do is to lift his soles further off the ground, and that alone might well help him.

I’m not impressed with a vet who will die on a hill of a horse having a certain condition which persists without confirming it by nerve blocks or other investigations.

You see I have always rated Keratex but there's a lot of people on the forum that say its bad because it contains formaldhyde.

 

[maya2008]

In your position I would block and scan. I would want to be sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it was just an issue to do with soft soles. Because, to be fair, New Forests don’t normally need shoes, and even your average TB could manage to mince to the field and back on stony tracks without being lame to ride or trot up on decent ground.

 

[criso]

You see I have always rated Keratex but there's a lot of people on the forum that say its bad because it contains formaldhyde.

Aside from that I've never found it helpful. It's not going to make the sole thicker and you just end up with a thin brittle sole rather than a thin bendy one. Still prone to bruising.

Heard good things about Hoof Armour though as it's actually a protective coating.

Or there's a Leovet one that is better than Keratex.

 

[Tiddlypom]

You see I have always rated Keratex but there's a lot of people on the forum that say it’s bad because it contains formaldhyde.

I’ve heard of Keratex hoof hardener but have never used it before.

I trust my vet, and when she said to get some, I did.

You do need not to over apply it, so follow the destructions.

 

[MuddyMonster]

It's been such a wet winter, I wouldn't be at all surprised if his feet are just feeling the wet and/or their is abscess brewing or something similar.

Mine is normally a rock cruncher but is being booted all around at the moment for rides involving stony/flinty tracks. I've not failed him for not being able to manage him better it's just a product of the circumstances.

I wouldn't jump to sell Bert either. It's been an awful winter weather-wise and you have a lot going on. There are lots of owner's that work full time & feel like they are juggling it all rather badly - I think it just feels a bit easier when you are riding and/or the sun is shining.

You are on a yard which can help. I've done full livery in the last and barely made it to farrier, vet visits etc - it's why it exists!

Of course, if you geniunely don't feel he is the pony for you or there is just too much going on in other areas of your life, that's different but you seemed so low without a pony and it would be a shame if you gave it up because you think you should be making every single appointment or riding every day when you are already on part/full livery and have trusted professionals that can help.

 

[#jackofallmasterofnone]

I think before I went any further I would follow the vets advice to have him shod and see where you stand after that before making any drastic decisions about selling or moving.

Re the laminitis - you have recently had blood work done and veterinary advice says he isn’t presenting with it. You are days away from having him shod (I think) which in the vets opinion will resolve the sore feet and he can get back to full work. As the vet has advised shoeing their advice on any further similar lameness is unlikely to change until this is done and they can reassess.

… so if it was me I would really try to stay out of the rabbit hole for now, get the shoes on and hope that the vet in all their wisdom is right.

 

[ycbm]

Aside from that I've never found [Keratex] helpful. It's not going to make the sole thicker and you just end up with a thin brittle sole rather than a thin bendy one. Still prone to bruising.

Heard good things about Hoof Armour though as it's actually a protective coating.

It makes the sole thicker by hardening it up and preventing wear. Unlike Hoof Armour it doesn't require a clean foot, never mind a dry one. I used to use 8% formaldehyde (much cheaper than Keratex and practically the same thing) to wash off the mud!
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Keratex hoof hardener has more than just formaldehyde in it.

Ingredients: Aluminum chloride hexahydrate, Glycerine (glycerol), Formaldehyde, Ethyl alcohol, Methyl alcohol, Methyl salicylate, Water. Directions for Use: Apply to lower half of the hoof and sole, avoiding the coronary band and frog. Use daily for one week then twice weekly for general hoof maintenance.

OH, who is a chemist, raised his eyebrows and commented ‘I hope that you wear gloves when you apply that stuff’.

Keratex Hoof Hardener Product Description and Information Page

For cracked hooves, splitting hooves, tender soles and managing moisture.

keratex.net

 

[criso]

It makes the sole thicker by hardening it up and preventing wear. Unlike Hoof Armour it doesn't require a clean foot, never mind a dry one. I used to use 8% formaldehyde (much cheaper than Keratex and practically the same thing) to wash off the mud!
.

I just found it didn't make any difference to the depth of the sole or how well the horse in particular coped but maybe his thinness wasn't caused by wear as he was shod anyway. It was before shoes came off.

I just ended up with soles that didn't feel as soft but were still thin and he still didn't like stoney tracks.

It was the farrier who was a fan in my case, I swear he had shares in Keratex and Kevin Bacon!

 

[pistolpete]

Not read all of this but intermittent lameness on native types in my experience is nearly always grass related ie lami pre lami footy whatever you want to call it. I’d be getting him off grass altogether for a few weeks. Easy to say and very hard to do of course.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

There are so many variables I am not surprised you feel as you do. I'd take the easier options first. Get front shoes on him next week, see how he is. If your concerned about laminitis reduce grass intake. The grass is certainly coming through here and with the milder weather will only increase.Check for the obvious digital pulse etc. Give the farrier the heads up. They are foot experts see what he says when he shoes him. Once shod evaluate and go from there.

There are so many what ifs. Take it a step at a time and good luck.

 

[Patterdale]

I was not able to be there for vet appointment due to work. It was very difficult to have conversation with vet due being on the way to work. He is not that lame and he has said he can be lunged. He is ademant the problem is due to wet weather and once he is shod will be ok.

I am actually thinking of selling him once he is sound due to work commitments and struggling to be able to control his grazing I may not the best home for him. I am never going to be in a job where I can just take lots of time off at short notice for vet, saddler, physio etc. I probably going to have to cancel saddler due to work commitments. I only have 1.5 hours in the evenings by the time I get to the yard after work to deal with anything at the yard which is just not enough time. I also am away at least one weekend a month due to my parents. I don't think it is actually feasible to have a horse when I have to work full time. In order to be able to afford a horse I need to work full time. Part livery is good but they are getting stressed with having to deal with so many appointments etc.

If he didn't need so much vet stuff and was a horse I could turn out and not worry about laminitis it would be easier. But with any horse they might need a lot of vet stuff and that is not compatible with working full time.

I bet that once you shoe him he will be sound. Is there any reason you haven’t shod him yet?
We had this with one of ours, slightly footy on and off in winter. He was new to us so I didn’t know him. People around said it looked like laminitis, but he had no history. Farrier said he needed shod. We shod him and he never looked back.
This is after weeks of stress thinking it was laminitis.

He has remained shod and is currently turned out on 8 acres grazing happily. He’d never been shod before but it was a change of home and a wet winter.

I think it is well worth trying.

 

[Patterdale]

Not read all of this but intermittent lameness on native types in my experience is nearly always grass related ie lami pre lami footy whatever you want to call it. I’d be getting him off grass altogether for a few weeks. Easy to say and very hard to do of course.

Very hard to do, and often counterproductive because if you completely remove grass from these ponies, they become super sensitive to it, the problems escalate and you sleepwalk them into a life of misery on short rations and tracks.

 

[criso]

I bet that once you shoe him he will be sound. Is there any reason you haven’t shod him yet

I believe the reason is he needs vet sedation to be shod so has taken longer to organise both.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Very hard to do, and often counterproductive because if you completely remove grass from these ponies, they become super sensitive to it, the problems escalate and you sleepwalk them into a life of misery on short rations and tracks.

What evidence is there for that? I’ve not heard of ponies becoming super sensitive to grass as a result of previously taking them off grass. The reverse, in fact - being able to gradually re introduce some grazing once the acute episode is over.

 

[maya2008]

What evidence is there for that? I’ve not heard of ponies becoming super sensitive to grass as a result of previously taking them off grass. The reverse, in fact - being able to gradually re introduce some grazing once the acute episode is over.

I would agree there - my TB went insulin resistant over one winter and could not, for love nor money cope with a reintroduction to grass the following year. I gave up, kept her grass free for two years. After that time, we tried again, and she was fine. Lived out for over ten years into her retirement with never another grass related problem.

 

[pistolpete]

They’re not designed to live on cow pasture. We get away with it if we’re lucky but the tradition of stabling part of the time is what stops them struggling often. Shoes also radically reduce low grade lami symptoms. It’s all cause and effect. I do speak from experience of natives and hardy good doers.

 

[ycbm]

I would agree there - my TB went insulin resistant over one winter and could not, for love nor money cope with a reintroduction to grass the following year. I gave up, kept her grass free for two years. After that time, we tried again, and she was fine. Lived out for over ten years into her retirement with never another grass related problem.

I have had horses the same. One over fed by my house sitter while we were on holiday and pushed into laminitis. This was before the days of testing for EMS but he probably was. I was left with a 7 year old who couldn't eat a blade of grass without raised pulses. He was kept off grass for 2 years and then his new owner was able to reintroduce it.

The second was a rehab who arrived insulin resistant with bendy feet. I couldn't let him eat grass without going footie, and he was also kept grass free for several years and then was able to be reintroduced to some grazing.