Bert is very lame.

[SO1]

What a shame. Is he difficult for the farrier then?

He was very nervous when he first came and had to have nuts when being trimmed as a distraction so I expect he will not be easy for shoes. He is quite nervous for his dental work and needs sedation for that. Homey didn't need sedation for anything.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

You could try a lick rather than feeding from hand? I assume you have done some densensitisation work as he may surprise you if cold shod the first time?

 

[SO1]

I think gloi meant hoof boots for hacking which you could do and hoof armour for general strengthening for turnout.

Surprised yard won't though. I actually had hoof boots over shoes when Frankie was shod as he used to pull shoes weekly and my very basic no frills part livery yard were happy to put them on. You could leave them on in the field which is less work. Then no worse than all the turnout boots and overreach boots lots of people need.

Just it's going to be difficult to get him shod if he needs sedating and having to organise the vet and farrier together not just for routine but if he pulls a shoe between shoeing.

It is harder to put on and take off hoof boots than an overeach. It is not the same person doing turnout each day so not straightforward especially if using freelancers so it has to be easy for them. They do his muzzle thankfully.

I went on a riding holiday where the horses used boots and it was quite a lot harder putting them on and off and then washing them after use than putting on over reach boots.

 

[SO1]

You could try a lick rather than feeding from hand? I assume you have done some densensitisation work as he may surprise you if cold shod the first time?

He has got better with having his feet picked out now and is less nervous with farrier. He doesn't mind the hoof testers and I have been trying to use keretex as well last few weeks with putting that on his soles and he is ok.

I am hoping he will get braver over time. He is also on a calmer.

 

[ycbm]

I think it would be completely unreasonable for a groom to say they can't put on Cavallo Simples. They're called that for a reason.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Cavallo simples are probably easier to put on than over reach boots.

 

[Gloi]

It is harder to put on and take off hoof boots than an overeach. It is not the same person doing turnout each day so not straightforward especially if using freelancers so it has to be easy for them. They do his muzzle thankfully.

I went on a riding holiday where the horses used boots and it was quite a lot harder putting them on and off and then washing them after use than putting on over reach boots.

I did mean boots just for hacking and hoof armour to strengthen the hooves like criso said.

 

[criso]

Definitely depends on the boots, my renegades are a lot less faff than brushing boots, fewer straps for a start and many horses have brushing boots and overreach for turnout. I did have some equine fusion which were fiddly but that was because shoes had just come off and feet were charging and once he'd been barefoot a while upgraded.

We put them on last year when Tigger was back out after an abscess and it was over Christmas so I was away and different people at the weekend and they agreed these were ok


Top tip wash legs with boots on, boots are then clean when you pull them off and don't have to be washed separately.

The problem is you have a pony that is nervous with the farrier and has never been shod. Ideally you'd want to work with the farrier and build up to shoes rather than sedate and force the issue.

Plus mine is a bit wobbly when we sedate for teeth so not sure how he'd be holding feet up.

So even if the long term plan is to shoe, I might be working towards it and asking what can I do to protect feet in the meantime.

I've not used it myself but have heard good things about hoof armour too.

 

[cauda equina]

Or look at Cavallo Treks which are simpler than Simples imo, or if they are likely to be a temporary measure, Entry Level Boots

 

[Michen]

I wouldn't want him turned out on wet, slippery ground with anything like a cavallo anyway. Domesedon gel for the shoeing, put shoes on and take off again in spring.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The boots would not be for turnout? They would be to wear for leading him to and from the field over rough ground, and for hacking, I believe.

 

[cauda equina]

That's what I thought too

 

[tda]

What we used to do with the youngsters was tie them up next to the older ponies as they were shod, so they would get used to the noise etc. , I know that doesn't immediately help you, sorry, more of a softly softly approach

 

[Michen]

Oh sorry I misunderstood. But no, I wouldn’t expect a yard to do that. Putting them on to get to the turnout maybe but trying to get boots on hooves absolutely drenched and caked in mud (I assume it’s muddy) to lead back in? And the horse would need to be good as gold standing quietly whilst you did it.

 

[gallopingby]

He has got better with having his feet picked out now and is less nervous with farrier. He doesn't mind the hoof testers and I have been trying to use keretex as well last few weeks with putting that on his soles and he is ok.

I am hoping he will get braver over time. He is also on a calmer.

He’s quite young, maybe someone could hold him for the farrier if you aren’t able to. I have a couple of ponies who have front shoes on, ideally they wouldn’t have any but it’s much simpler and easier to keep them on so we can hack in the forest or a short distance down the road. One is on a strict 6 week reshoe and the other manages much longer.

 

[criso]

The boots would not be for turnout? They would be to wear for leading him to and from the field over rough ground, and for hacking, I believe.

I'd be inclined to leave them on as trying to get them back on a muddy pony in a gateway wouldn't be reasonable. Lots of people do use them for turnout.

While not as good as barefoot, I didn't find boots nearly as slippy as shoes in mud. My previous horse went splat 3 times when shod in a muddy field and once ridden misjudging cornering or an emergency stop. He was a move first think later sort of horse though, current is a more cautious type generally and thinks about where he puts his feet

 

[Tiddlypom]

I agree, I find Cavallo Treks fine for winter turnout for the odd day.. They do get muddy, but the horses don’t slip in them.

The risk is more of mud getting inside the boots and rubbing.

 

[expanding_horizon]

When a previous horse really struggled going barefoot (thin soles)**

I got up early and booted him for turnout for 3 months straight before he was able to manage on tracks and in field without boots. He was an awkward boot size / shape too, so nothing easy like Cavallo fitted!! No way yard staff would have got four tricky hoof boots on or been willing to try. Was hard work!! And I was on 7 day part livery at the time.

** knowing what I know now, and what is now available, I would have used hoof casts or duplo glue conformable shoes on for a few cycles to help him grow sole whilst keeping comfortable and allowing the hoof mechanism function.

For my horse, as he had poor feet in shoes, shoes on to grow sole wasnt viable. For a horse that has never been shod, a few cycles of shoes might well help grow sole when there is too much abrasion taking place in winter.

 

[SO1]

When a previous horse really struggled going barefoot (thin soles)**

I got up early and booted him for turnout for 3 months straight before he was able to manage on tracks and in field without boots. He was an awkward boot size / shape too, so nothing easy like Cavallo fitted!! No way yard staff would have got four tricky hoof boots on or been willing to try. Was hard work!! And I was on 7 day part livery at the time.

** knowing what I know now, and what is now available, I would have used hoof casts or duplo glue conformable shoes on for a few cycles to help him grow sole whilst keeping comfortable and allowing the hoof mechanism function.

For my horse, as he had poor feet in shoes, shoes on to grow sole wasnt viable. For a horse that has never been shod, a few cycles of shoes might well help grow sole when there is too much abrasion taking place in winter.

The reason I am on part livery is that I don't live near the yard so DIY is not possible with work due to being in London. Unless I leave the house 4.45am which really is not viable and I can't be at there to catch in either to take off boots. Also I have family issues with my elderly parents so it is not like I can reliably be at the yard every day anyway. I also travel for business.

Glue on shoes may be an option and cheaper than front shoes plus sedation which will probably be nearly £200 a time.

 

[maya2008]

Just watch the insulin levels - at insulin of 10.5 my shetland was still mildly lame. Both cases of insulin resistance I have encountered with my own horses, started with them being footy, having stone bruises more often, shifting lameness. Over time it seemed like nothing much. Maybe we needed shoes, or the older one needed to slow down. Then something kicked it into overdrive and they went from mostly fine to actually poorly. Now at an insulin level of 10.5, vet said she was fine, farrier said she was fine, they both pontificated about the reasoning for her mild continuing lameness (thin soles, wet ground, higher than ideal heels etc etc etc). But in the many many years we've owned her, she's NEVER had soft soles or needed shoes. In the end, once her x-rays were good enough and the vets were happy for us to do so, we popped her on a light dose of painkiller to make her more comfortable and worked her (in-hand). She came fully sound within a few weeks after nearly a year of lameness - coming completely off all medication. She's stayed off that medication and once more has rock hard hooves, no longer noticing stones or gravel or anything. Now I know it's the middle of winter, but both started in winter for me, probably due to reduced workload. So if you can, when he's well enough, I would up the work and keep it up. That will help the stifles too anyway, so nothing lost.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I think my expectations would differ depending on what I pay.

When I paid £1000 a month for livery, the yard staff booted my horse to do an anything with her. She had a hard standing run which she went into with boots on if there was limited turnout due to weather so that her feet didn’t get too soft. They also cleaned and dried her feet properly so that we kept them free of thrush and made sure boots were clean and I kept the pads were fresh. The horse might have been in and out of boots three or four times a day. They never complained and took the initiative to change in and out if they saw any rubbing or felt she looked pottery. They really were excellent about it, and were a big part of why my horse is still alive. Shoeing might have been easier but it would not have been the right answer for the horse.

One of my other horses is on a fab yard with a pro rider at the moment, and I’m paying just over half of that. I would discuss booting if she needed it but not expect it, nor would I expect meticulous cleaning between changes etc without paying extra for it. They offer a brilliant basic service at a reasonable rate but the cost of time to do the above and beyond things isn’t already factored in.

Depending on what you’re paying, and what the livery is like, I would ask about booting. And maybe consider moving the horse if you can’t get the right service for him?

 

[criso]

I agree, I find Cavallo Treks fine for winter turnout for the odd day.. They do get muddy, but the horses don’t slip in them.

The risk is more of mud getting inside the boots and rubbing.

That's why I like the renegades if your horse fits them. Not much to rub as they are lower down, good grip and easy to put on and take off.

However I used boots in a totally unsupported way previously over shoes for turnout, I was desperate. Horse had terrible feet and lost shoes all the time and to be fair boots didn't rub or prove slippy. And these were Boas that aren't even especially good boots, things have improved a lot since

 

[ycbm]

Can you remind me if Bert has been tested for EMS SO1? His history of reacting badly to the nailing on of shoes and his lameness now do seem to suggest weak feet and some sensitivity which may have some metabolic root cause.

Apologies if you've already been over this.
.

 

[SO1]

Can you remind me if Bert has been tested for EMS SO1? His history of reacting badly to the nailing on of shoes and his lameness now do seem to suggest weak feet and some sensitivity which may have some metabolic root cause.

Apologies if you've already been over this.
.

Yes he has been tested for EMS on Friday. He has never been shod before he is just nervous about farrier so no idea what he would be like with nails being hammered in.

His EMS test came back as 13.5 for insulin so vet said that was ok as vet said under 30.

His adiponectin was 9.4 and is in the grey area. Ideally should be 10 or over with 8 being the cut off where more predisposed to laminitis.

I put him on soaked hay at the start of this batch of lameness plus muzzle as he was off work and I didn’t want him to get really fat as they moved onto rested fields. He is negative to hoof testers and vet and farrier don't think it is laminitis. The vet has seen him 3 times now and the farrier once last week.

Farrier said his hooves were washed out and he would feel stones easily.

 

[Roxylola]

Last time I had a baby horse I did a lot. Foot tapping with a hoof pick and progressed to gently with a hammer daily for the period leading up to shoes going on. As you have to wait for sedation I'd get cracking with that now. Along with holding feet up a bit longer and putting down and picking up a bit. Also stretching toes forward - I forgot that bit and my horse went from looking like he'd been shod years to having a small panic at the sight of his toes
If you can do that with little reaction I'd try without sedation and have a lick to hand to distract

 

[SO1]

Rode Bert in the school today and he was trotting beautifully. Need to get his saddle altered again so just sticking to trot.

Unfortunately his muzzle has really rubbed his nose so he will have to have a break from it. I think I will have to get the pony size muzzle with a cob size thinline headcollar as he gets his nose out of the side of the muzzle to eat and that is causing the headcollar nose band to rub a raw patch on his nose. The smaller muzzle may prevent him being able to eat out the side. The thinline headcollar will prevent the cable ties from rubbing and the sides of the muzzles from moving.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Rode Bert in the school today and he was trotting beautifully. Need to get his saddle altered again so just sticking to trot.

Unfortunately his muzzle has really rubbed his nose so he will have to have a break from it. I think I will have to get the pony size muzzle with a cob size thinline headcollar as he gets his nose out of the side of the muzzle to eat and that is causing the headcollar nose band to rub a raw patch on his nose. The smaller muzzle may prevent him being able to eat out the side. The thinline headcollar will prevent the cable ties from rubbing and the sides of the muzzles from moving.

There’s a duct tape trick to stop them being able to eat out of side. Do a search hear for details. It works!

 

[Patterdale]

SO1 has said multiple times that boots won’t work for her. Why are people still suggesting boots, and probably making her feel worse!?

Just get it shod to allow the hoof to grow and recover a bit SO1. You are not doing him a disservice by shoeing him. I can’t think of many yards k know who would actually put boots on to walk to the field, then take them off at the field, then reverse it for bringing in. They’ve got enough on.

 

[little_critter]

I don’t think I’d fancy trying to get boots on my own horse to bring in, let alone someone else’s.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Calm down. People were suggesting how boots could be an option because the horse is likely to need sedating to be shod .

Only the OP can decide which route to take.