Bert is very lame.

[SO1]

@SO1 I’m sorry you are having ongoing problems and considering selling. Have you thought of sharing him? It would be a reversible half way house solution .

I’ve not read every response so apologies if I’ve missed anything- is he turned out 24/7? Or does he have any time inside to dry his feet out? I see you are applying the sole hardener so hope that should help.
I have just started using Keratex hoof gel (slightly different product) to waterproof my horse’s frogs.

Also do you feed a balancer? Mine are on forage plus hoof and skin balancer and they grow plenty sole. Trimmer was here last week and trying to trim off bits of compacted sole, with difficulty - it was rock hard. (My paddock is very wet but they are brought into yard over night).

I would have thought it fairly easy to tell if it’s the saddle that’s the problem - is he sound on the lunge?

I know shoeing has been advised, but cavallo hoof boots are very easy to use and forgiving in fit, even just a short term measure - and there are different models which fit different hoof shapes. That would show up if it’s the sole that’s the problem or something internal .

Also have you thought of having a vet 2nd opinion? Just to be sure nothing has been missed?

No need to reply - just a few thoughts which occurred which I hope may be of some help.

Thank you for taking the time to reply it is a huge thread with so much information.

I don't think sharing would really work unless they were a person that was available during the day really to help with appointments. The main problem appointment has been saddle appointment. The farrier/sedation issue might not be an issue if I was able to be there for him. I am not sure these are things a sharer would be up for. A sharer could definitely be an option if he would stay sound as it would be nice for him to get extra love from someone else.

Exercise is less of an issue as I can exercise him after work and I have a professional I can pay who can help 3/4 days a week with exercise. He could be exercised twice a day if needed on some days.

He is in at night and out during the day. His lameness is intermittent. He is sometimes lame under saddle sometimes fine sometimes lame on the lunge, mostly fine. He is worst on the hard especially the drive where there are some stones. Negative to hoof testers.

It is quite difficult as I am not there when the vet is there normally there and also difficult to talk to him because I am at work so all conversations rushed or relayed through YO.

Last time when I was there when the vet was there he was great on the lunge vet commented on how nice his paces were, but 2/10 lame on the hard and very uncomfortable on stones on the drive.

I did have a conversation with vet about shoeing he agrees barefoot is best but in the situation I am in he advised shoeing.

There is more than one vet at the practice so I could get a second opinion but my vet is an advanced practitioner in equine lameness.

 

[Goldenstar]

You might need an MRI to get to the bottom of this .

Have you a reasonably current X-ray ?

I would shoe in your situation then try pads and shoeing, while not ideal many horses have long working lives using tools like pads .

If Shoeing with or without pads gets the horse sound and comfortable you bought your self some thinking time .

 

[SO1]

You might need an MRI to get to the bottom of this .

Have you a reasonably current X-ray ?

I would shoe in your situation then try pads and shoeing, while not ideal many horses have long working lives using tools like pads .

If Shoeing with or without pads gets the horse sound and comfortable you bought your self some thinking time .

He had a full set of Xrays for 5 PPE exam which was done by my vet included stifle and front hooves in August. His hooves were not great with some mild flare and imbalance, vet said he was overdue trimming and need good farriery, needed and a new saddle as he had a girth rub, needed wolf teeth removal and had a tiny bit of a cloudy eye but didn't impact his vision. Vet passed him for riding club pony and said he really liked him said he was very well behaved and would be nice for me. He was not gelded until he was 4 and he failed to get his stallion liscense. Had been on individual turnout in his previous home.

His problems started when he went on herd turnout. He is not well socialised and he is desperate to make friends and is a bit of stalker and he got kicked in the flank and quarters round by tail and you still see the scaring and vet said he has got scar tissue there. He and another horse went lame the same week back in October. The other horse still not back in the field. We thought perhaps that was linked or he had slipped in the field. Vet said barefoot is better but one of the downside is they are more prone to slipping. That was stifles and he recovered from that and nothing obvious now. Vet said back end looking really good now.

Vet is ademant lameness in front is due to weather and shoeing should help he prefers barefoot but says for Bert and the situation I am in try shoes. Farrier says hooves washed out and he will really feel any stones.

He did say when he first went lame front left if he did not improve with a week field rest he would nerve block. Decided as he was having a week off to remove his wolf teeth which vet said looked sore. There were some complications with due to the size and position so Bert ended up having longer on field rest as vet had to remove them in two stages. He spent over an hour the first time with groom holding Bert. Phase 2 to get the remaining fragments out I managed to get a morning off work andnwas there to help as groom busy. He had nearly 3 weeks of field rest in the end. Sound on the lunge with vet admiring his pace after a week off but still bad on the drive with the stones when lunged on the hard. About 2 weeks before the lameness started YO said Bert had come in lame from the field and there was a big stone in hoof and they took it out and he was then fine so that could be linked to it.

I think I will just have to see how next week goes. Phyiso today. Farrier on Wednesday. Saddler on Friday. He is being lightly lunged by instructor around the arena and I am away due to mother's day. Thankfully mum is doing so well she wants to cook me some special meals and we are going to watch Crufts on TV.

I did suggest to vet he stayed in for feet to dry out but vet said he needs exercise and to go into field with his friends. The field has grass but it is wet the back of one of fields has a big puddle that the horses all seem to like the wet.

I am away quite a bit next few weeks so probably good to get away from the situation. Mother's day this weekend and then on 23rd as mum wants to go to a Pink Floyd tribute band for her birthday. At least she seems to be improving dramatically.

 

[maya2008]

What about moving him close to your parents if you spend weekends there? To a full livery yard that will actually do the full job (I.e. sorting appts etc without needing you)? Then you could enjoy him at weekends while maybe finding a yard that’s a better fit for him turnout wise? Even back on individual turnout if that is what he needs.

I would still want to know more though because that comment about feet being out of balance at the vetting…unless you purposely trim badly, or do lots of roadwork and don’t round off the toes, in my experience a horse without conformational or other issues will wear their hooves evenly.

 

[criso]

Would there be an insurance exclusion if it turns out to be a foot problem and hoof balance was raised on the vetting? X rays don't prove much given that often it is soft tissue which doesn't show up on the X ray.

 

[SO1]

I miss Homey so much.

 

[Squeak]

Is it possible to get a freelancer groom (separate from the yard) who can do all the appointments for you? It must be so frustrating not being able to get everything done when you need to. I really hope you manage to get to the bottom of it and it's as simple as putting shoes on, and then manage to have some time enjoying him.

 

[SO1]

Is it possible to get a freelancer groom (separate from the yard) who can do all the appointments for you? It must be so frustrating not being able to get everything done when you need to. I really hope you manage to get to the bottom of it and it's as simple as putting shoes on, and then manage to have some time enjoying him.

I have just seen a uni student advertising freelance services for £30 for 2 hours locally including Wednesdays day which is always the hardest day for me to get off work for appointments. They can also do weekends.

 

[MuddyMonster]

@SO1 I was thinking about you this morning whilst mucking out and really think you might be beating yourself up unnecessarily and deserve to cut yourself done slack.

If I've understood this correctly, he was a good weight with you & your instructor riding him and it's only since he's gone lame that he's gained weight*?

*And by gained weight, the vet's still happy enough with him given the circumstances.

That doesn't sound like a 'I can't do the right thing for my horse and might not be the best owner' thing.

That's just the physics of owning a native/cob/good doer in the Spring.

I can't think of a single native that would look lean and could see their ribs in Spring without decent work or wouldn't put weight on if you had to stop exercising for lameness reasons.

The other alternative would be for you to ride a lame horse to keep him slim, which obviously isn't an alternative at all.

I work full time and still sometimes have difficulties juggling appointments - I can't think of a single working owner that doesn't. I've had to fake a sickie a few times over the years or leave half way/arrive half way through an appt, every single professional has been fine with it.

I hope you can see it's nothing you've done or are not doing & you are doing a great job for Bertie whatever else may happen

 

[JoannaC]

I do hope you can get to the bottom of Bert's lameness soon. Hopefully once the clocks change and if we could just get some nice dry weather everything will seem more manageable. Are there any track livery yards around? Or would a yard near your parents be a solution so you could spend time with them and Bert at the weekend. I realise it wouldn't be so practical for during the week though. It would be such a shame to give up horses although I do understand how hard it is when you've lost your heart horse. I never felt the same about the horses I had since Shida but i'm glad I persevered as they have still given me lots of pleasure. Fingers crossed it is just the wet and shoeing will do the trick.

 

[criso]

From a work point of view I just used to take 1/2 or sometimes whole days from my annual leave for horsey stuff. I wasn't going to use as a fortnight in the sun and I had 25 days plus days in lieu accrued so had to use it up.

Given that you have this entitlement, an employer can't complain if you use it, however you choose to spend it and actually from the employers point of view it's generally easier to work around someone turning up at lunch or leaving early than being without them for 2 weeks.

 

[Boulty]

Forgive me if I’m speaking out of turn here but the issue does not seem to be that you work full time as such but rather the lack of flexibility of your employer in allowing you to book time off with reasonable notice / in asking you to stay late/ in scheduling you meetings at the last minute. If the sole reason for considering giving him up is that you’re struggling to fit him in around work then does your current job have amazing perks that are keeping you there or would it be worth a sneaky browse around for something similarly paid with a tad more flexibility?

Can totally see why you’re feeling a bit overwhelmed with Bert being a bit more high maintenance than expected and things not going to plan with being able to work him to keep the weight off. See how things are when you’ve got all your ducks in a row with him and how you feel then.

 

[SO1]

Forgive me if I’m speaking out of turn here but the issue does not seem to be that you work full time as such but rather the lack of flexibility of your employer in allowing you to book time off with reasonable notice / in asking you to stay late/ in scheduling you meetings at the last minute. If the sole reason for considering giving him up is that you’re struggling to fit him in around work then does your current job have amazing perks that are keeping you there or would it be worth a sneaky browse around for something similarly paid with a tad more flexibility?

Can totally see why you’re feeling a bit overwhelmed with Bert being a bit more high maintenance than expected and things not going to plan with being able to work him to keep the weight off. See how things are when you’ve got all your ducks in a row with him and how you feel then.

My current role allows me to work from my parents house when my parents are unwell. Unfortunately my mum became very unwell the day after I bought Bert and my Dad has vascular dementia and they were living in France at the time. Normally I have to attend the office twice a week my employers allowed me to work in France and in Norfolk when we moved my parents back here near my sister.

The salary is really good but I could earn more elsewhere. I was discussing this with other colleagues and most of us stay because of caring responsibilities either for children or elderly parents and this organisation being very family friendly.

The downside is the volume of meetings and calls and we are getting to the point where the volunteers want us to do weekend and evening zoom meetings which we have been trying to discourage.

Term time is incredibly busy as most of our calls and meetings take place then. School holidays it is easier as we don't so many calls/meetings. We are asked to avoid AL in term time and during January to May which is our peak time.

Homey got really ill in June and ended up being PTS on 29 July so in terms of getting emergency leave and finding someone to cover it was not too bad. I have not missed a single work meeting due to equine emergencies in the whole 15 years I had Homey including the 11 years at my previous employers.

I have to make a lot of requests to work from France and Norfolk since August and now that mum is much better with carers it is easier but if I moved roles and started needing to be in Norfolk more I think it might be hard as a new starter to ask that. I have an arrangement here that allows me to work in Norfolk every other week in emergency situations with the other week in the office. I have not have to be in Norfolk for a while since the carers are in but I am here now.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s sounds that your work although demanding does offer you some important flexibility in terms of your family responsibilities.
You just need to find some way of stabilising things on the pony side that buys you some time .
The free lancer , although she will add a decent percentage to your weekly pony bills might combined with a set of shoes and perhaps pads just give you a chance to get things settled down .
Try to enjoy Mother’s Day with your Mum .
Have a hug as well, you will get through .

 

[I'm Dun]

Is there nothing much closer to Norfolk work wise or something that's predominantly work from home? Wages will be lower but so will rent and livery, and the cost of commuting to norfolk wont be there. I don't think your employer is offering you anything remotely special in terms of flexibility, its what most employers would do.

 

[ihatework]

Slightly different suggestion-

If you are thinking feet/fatty type issues, haven’t quite got the brain space etc, thinking of selling (but that might just be overwhelm and anyway he’s not sellable at this point) - find yourself a good multi surface track/rehab livery and just send him there and give yourself a break.

 

[criso]

Being discouraged to take leave during term time and Jan to May doesn't sound very flexible. That's only 8-10 weeks of the year where you are allowed to take leave! It may suit people with school kids better who prefer leave in school holidays but as you're not in that position, it may not offer the right sort of flexibility for you as you may have demands from pony and parents outside that time.

Working from home is so common , I was looking around a while back in case a contract didn't come in and everywhere seemed to be offering 2 days a week in the office, 3 at home. So I wouldn't regard that as unusual or a perk these days.

I don't think it's unreasonable to book a half day leave every 6 weeks to be there for the farrier, I used to when Frankie was having foot problems. It was planned in advance, so work could adjust around and I was at my desk in central London by lunchtime. Same with the saddle fitter which hopefully once everything settles down, will be every 6 months.

It might not hurt to look at whether something else might work better. Somewhere where work is more even over the year so the occasional planned day of leave for pony responsibilities won't be such an issue.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yes, what everyone said. Many jobs can offer a little flexibility. My husband is an aerospace engineer, so dealing with life and death stuff, and he's been able to scadge days or afternoons off, no bother, when he's needed to help with my horses.

 

[SO1]

From my family for mother's day from Bertie. It is weird I just don't feel the same about Bertie as I do about Homey. I am fond of Bert he is sweet boy and I want to do the right thing for him. I would certainly miss him. I expect all the stress has not helped and I just feel a bit exhausted.

I can't really do anything about Bert anyway until May at the earliest because of work. He would need to be slim and sound in order to be rehomed. I would not sell him until I know he had been sound for 6 months and would more likely loan so if it didn't work out I could have him back. I have a friend with her own land who could take him in an emergency situation who could restrict his grazing and be able to recognise if he got too fat.

I suppose my reluctance to move roles is when you are probation if you have family emergencies it is a lot harder when your employers don't know you and you don't know how they would react.

My employers have been great in allowing me to not to go to office when my parents are ill. I don't want to go into a new role and immediately start asking to work remotely or for time off for equine emergencies.

Bert's weight would not have got so bad if I had noticed earlier and had been able to sort out his muzzle. I spent the best part of the last month most evenings try to get his muzzle to fit and stop if from rubbing/eating out the side. It just be useful having someone to help do things like this. I managed to get it to fit without eating out the sides finally but the nose rubbing is still an issue. I have ordered other muzzles it just having time to fit and test them when it is dark in the evenings.

The yard farrier is always a Wednesday which is when we have an organisation staff meeting in the office and most of our meetings are Wednesday. If I organise my own farrier then if would have to me always there which I cannot guarantee if something comes up with my parents. If I use yard farrier, yard physio and yard vet then it is easier but these appointments need to be scheduled in for when the staff are available.

It has got to the point where I can't relax as I am always on edge waiting for a call from YO to tell me there is something wrong with Bert, which is made worse by irritation that I can't always answer calls when working.

I don't think it is a Bert issue it is a horse ownership issue.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

If you would consider track livery Mark Johnson (barefoot farrier) recommends Loddington Copice in Northamptonshire. I have seen videos of it and it is a proper surfaced track livery with Horesrail fencing not just muddy fields with flappy tape. Bert’s feet would improve, his weight would be better controlled and you could have a complete break which might help you decide what you want to do long term without the pressures you seem to be under at present.

 

[meleeka]

You can’t expect to feel the same way as you did about Homie. That partnership took years to build and you have only had Bertie a short time in comparison.

 

[SO1]

You can’t expect to feel the same way as you did about Homie. That partnership took years to build and you have only had Bertie a short time in comparison.

You are absolutely right, and very sensible and the amount of the amount of time spent with Bert since August has been not as much as expected due to being away so much since mum became ill. It will take time. He doesn't try and kick me when I groom him now he quite likes it, lets me pick up his feet without a fuss, easy for me to catch.

I think I probably have a bit of post traumatic stress following the loss of Homey, finally finding Bert and then as soon as I got him trying for the last 8 months to balance the situation with my parents, work and Bert's bouts of lameness.

 

[SEL]

@SO1 I think it's normal not to feel the same about Bertie as you did about your old boy. He was with you for years, Bertie is new and is causing you stress! Not his fault but completely understandable that you're associating stress with him

The microcob was my lockdown project. She was supposed to be easy - back into work after weaning her foal and probably sell on. Instead I ended up with a pony who needed airway surgery so that meant 3 non ridden horses. She was an incredibly sweet pony but if someone had taken her off my hands there and then I would have thrown her at them.

Four years on and she's still with me and I adore her. She's the most brilliant hack, full of character and a delight to have around - but its taken time. I'm sure you will start to feel the same about Bertie when all the hassle around his feet and the saddler is over. Hang on in there - summer will (hopefully) be here soon.

 

[Michen]

I too have been thinking about you this morning. As you know I got Boggle because a previous horse died horribly. Then came a year of soundness issues along with behavioural. It was exhausting. I was fried. We were not a team or bonded. Everything was made so much worse because he wasn’t Basil.

And it was so worth it. I truly believe the universe gave me something back having so cruelly taken Basil. I hope if you decide to keep him, he becomes your second horse of a life time.

You have a lot of love to give, it would be a shame for any horse to miss out on that.

 

[I'm Dun]

Id send him off to that track livery linked to above. Even 3 months would make a difference to his feet and weight and give you some breathing space to consider other yards/jobs etc. And then if it turns out your current yard and job is the best option, then you can bring him back slim, good feet and ready to get going again.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

i haven’t read all of the replies so apologies if you already have done this but I would be getting an mri done on his feet, preferably at Rossdales. My boy had clean x-rays but significant DDFT damage which wouldn’t have been able to be seen if I hadn’t had an mri.

 

[scats]

From my family for mother's day from Bertie. It is weird I just don't feel the same about Bertie as I do about Homey. I am fond of Bert he is sweet boy and I want to do the right thing for him. I would certainly miss him. I expect all the stress has not helped and I just feel a bit exhausted.

I think that’s perfectly normal to be honest.

I adore Millie now, but she’s not and never will be Diva. The first 2 years with Millie I regularly had thoughts of ‘Flo would never have done that’, ‘I really hate hacking this horse’, ‘I wish you were Flo’
Now I have a horse who, no, will never be Diva, but is perfect for me in her own way and is a different horse who deserves being put on her own little pedestal (believe me, that took a while!)

I still feel that dreadful pang for Diva. No horse will ever come close and I’ve got to accept that, but you can build another wonderful relationship with another horse. It’s just a slightly different one.
Give it time. I wanted to throttle Millie for pretty much the whole of the first 2 years together

 

[Peglo]

Another that thinks you need to go easier on yourself and Bert.

Bert has unfortunately not been straight forward health wise which is stressful in itself but on top of that the stress your going through with your parents which would be too much for many, definitely me, it’s no wonder your not feeling positively or excited about things right now. The two issues together is so much to deal with so don’t make any drastic decisions right now. I wish your yard was more helpful with appointments to give you more breathing space.

Also just remember that you work to live, not live to work. If you left they would just replace you so don’t let work dictate your happiness. If it doesn’t any longer let you enjoy life as you’d like then there’s no hurt looking to see if there’s something out there that’s more flexible as I don’t think your current job seems flexible at all.

I do hope things become easier for you very soon and you get to enjoy Bert in the sun.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

.

There is more than one vet at the practice so I could get a second opinion but my vet is an advanced practitioner in equine lameness.

I wouldnt hold too much in this quali, its a new one out, and there are only three vets in the uk at the moment who have it and two are local to me one of which i really do not rate as a vet from watching him with a few friends horses.

Can you look at a track type livery for the weight and being out 24/7? Where abouts are you? Abbots View is one near to me and they will be putting in a school in the summer.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Just read this thread all the way through and didn't want to read and run. Feeling for you OP. Sounds a total nightmare.

As much as the forum is a lovely place with a lot of knowledgeable horsemen, sometimes so many opinions can make it difficult to see straight.

Really hope you get some answers and improvement this week.