Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Not as positive as we were all hoping but at least you have a plan.
Was the EPM test bloods or a spinal tap?
Was the EPM test bloods or a spinal tap?
Boggle- USA bound!
- Thread starter Michen
- Start date
Michen
Well-Known Member
Just bloods… I’m honestly pretty shocked. But I do think EPM would be a better cause than anything neck related!
SEL
Well-Known Member
EPM is instantly what US based people go to when people ask about ataxia on the PSSM forums. I'm guessing pretty common out there?
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
EPM is super rare in CO. I also have a story about bloods. Can you get a spinal before committing to expensive treatments?
Michen
Well-Known Member
I’ve asked but think it needs a GA.
I agree EPM seems unlikely but the bloods do show exposure so we can’t rule it out I guess. He also isn’t presenting like a typical EPM horse but i don’t feel like I can not treat given the drug is very safe, in case there’s a tiny chance it is that
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's the worst to be honest given his symptoms chances are it is that that's causing the symptoms even if it is rare.
I know it's expensive but if the bloods are showing exposure I think I would definitely treat.
I know it's expensive but if the bloods are showing exposure I think I would definitely treat.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Oh I'm going to of course... its just hellishly expensive. Spoke to vet, further diagnostics are spinal tap. Don't want to do that.
Again you have to make choices between what's best for horse or bank balance. The drug is very safe so I'm not risking him dosing anyway. Spinal tap they could attempt without GA but unlikely to go well. So once again- medicate incase.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Not so much in Co and his symptoms are not typical (such a sudden onset and other things). But he's been exposed so...
meesha
Well-Known Member
It sounds like the vets are covering all basis and it's still early days in terms of recovery.
At least there is a treatment for EPM and it has to be worth a go if there are no side effects.
Did they give you a timescale of when you can bring him home ?
At least there is a treatment for EPM and it has to be worth a go if there are no side effects.
Did they give you a timescale of when you can bring him home ?
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
Oh I know you would treat
I was just saying it's also what I would do I'm very much in the camp of sod the money as well 
Michen
Well-Known Member
He's coming home monday. I am really nervous. Thank GOD I had this vacation booked for next two weeks so I have no travel for work until end october but what will I do then. I can hopefully fly in and out of meetings in a day. At the moment he is going to be completely reliant on me to get out of his stall. Unless he improves quickly and enough to go in his normal turnout and be handled by the barn hands. They are great but they are not like UK grooms who would be riders, horse people as well. So they won't see something and think oh he's likely to spook at that I need to manage this etc etc
And frankly I don't want anyone else handling him
BMA2
Well-Known Member
2 week can be a long time...so fingers crossed
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
I do wonder how many horses in the US would test (blood) as "exposed" though? I know about EPM, but not specifics re test results and exposures.
The treatment is expensive, as mentioned. I cannot for the life of me think of a single thing that isn't more expensive in the US
or that's just been my experience anyway.
Oooh, I guess petrol and diesel or other oil products are cheaper. Ok, that's about it
It does sound go be rather wait and see at the moment, which is fine, and my fingers are still crossed for Boggle!
I can understand not wanting barn help to handle him, and I'm glad that your barn seems to be sensible about it all. Bad timing that you had to cancel a trip, but good timing in that you'll be available for him.
The treatment is expensive, as mentioned. I cannot for the life of me think of a single thing that isn't more expensive in the US
or that's just been my experience anyway.Oooh, I guess petrol and diesel or other oil products are cheaper. Ok, that's about it
It does sound go be rather wait and see at the moment, which is fine, and my fingers are still crossed for Boggle!
I can understand not wanting barn help to handle him, and I'm glad that your barn seems to be sensible about it all. Bad timing that you had to cancel a trip, but good timing in that you'll be available for him.
meesha
Well-Known Member
Great news he's well enough to come home, that's the first hurdle over with. In another 2 weeks he could be loads better so try not to overthink.
Sounds like you have all bases covered.
Come on Boggle !!
Sounds like you have all bases covered.
Come on Boggle !!
Michen
Well-Known Member
Just spoke to a wonderful sounding barn an hour south of here. They have a heated stall with a run, a quiet gelding he could go out with. No requirement to be in a training program (although the board is almost as expensive as my current barn WITH training program). I'm going to go and see them on tuesday. A vet clinic rents 6 of their stalls for emergencies etc, which isn't ideal in terms of horses coming and going but actually in his position I don't think having vets around all the time could be a bad thing.
https://www.westonvalleyranch.com/ if anyone wants to look.
https://www.westonvalleyranch.com/ if anyone wants to look.
meesha
Well-Known Member
Really pleased u have found options. You can feel like u r planning, bonkers expensive no doubt though ...
Just followed the link .... Looks lovely ...onsite vet !! Wow
Just followed the link .... Looks lovely ...onsite vet !! Wow
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
That sounds and looks really nice!
I have to move mine this spring because I don't really have the facilties where he's at to back him, and one of my top picks has a vet on site. I need to figure out if I actually like that vet though
I don't have a history of not getting along with vets or anything, but there has been the odd vet that I'd just rather not use. So that's generally my only concern about onsite vets. Of course illness and quarantine/isolation stuff is a valid one too.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Guys what do I do. Do I assume I take him back to existing barn for a while or shall I assume I need to leave, and try an do so before the snow starts? In the next week or two. I hate to take him back there only to move him again but the more I think about it the more I don't think having a neurological horse in the mountains and snow feels like a sensible idea.
Of course last year it dumped with snow all winter so the foothills never really melted either. That leaves me with Arizona.
If only it was summer I'd have more time to make decisions.
Of course last year it dumped with snow all winter so the foothills never really melted either. That leaves me with Arizona.
If only it was summer I'd have more time to make decisions.
SEL
Well-Known Member
I'd move. It sounds like they are ok to take him and have a good set-up right now - when he recovers fully you can always reassess the situation. You're leaving the current barn on good terms and purely for medical reasons.
Michen
Well-Known Member
I think I should go see the other barn first thing in the morning, it might be better to leave him at the vets a day or two longer and potentially take him straight there...
Downsides are its 45 mins away with no traffic (and there will be traffic). Whereas other barn I can get to in 20-25 so maybe for the next week or two it is best here's there and I can go twice a day, just means he'd have to move twice.
Downsides are its 45 mins away with no traffic (and there will be traffic). Whereas other barn I can get to in 20-25 so maybe for the next week or two it is best here's there and I can go twice a day, just means he'd have to move twice.
meesha
Well-Known Member
I think as u can't stay long term unless in training I would move if u find somewhere suitable as u might have to move anyway and travelling him in the snow in a couple of months might be a worry.
I wouldn't worry if u have to take him home then move him again, he is used to being travelled and moving Ng about for comps although if u can leave him another few days at vets to sort something would that help ?
I wouldn't worry if u have to take him home then move him again, he is used to being travelled and moving Ng about for comps although if u can leave him another few days at vets to sort something would that help ?
meesha
Well-Known Member
If unsure take him back to his current place and give yourself the next 2 weeks while u r off to look for somewhere...takes pressure off a little !!
Muddy unicorn
Well-Known Member
Neurological symptoms can improve a LOT in two weeks - not a horse but my puppy was in intensive care with meningitis earlier this year. When he came out he was still unbalanced and had a pronounced head tremor but improved significantly once he was home and a few weeks later you could barely tell he’d been so ill. I hope Boggle surprises you (in a good way) once again.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I think you will have an extremely fraught winter waiting for him to fall again even if he recovers fully from this problem, so I would move him straight to the rehab yard, hope for a full recovery over winter and reevaluate in spring if he improves enough to keep him going.
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Michen
Well-Known Member
It's not a rehab yard (though I have contacted one), it's just in the foothills so slightly easier in terms of snow- and has a better turnout situation for him (no steep hills etc).
It will still snow, I can't escape that unless I take him to Az. But moving to the foothills would give me a little more breathing room re snow and timings.
It will still snow, I can't escape that unless I take him to Az. But moving to the foothills would give me a little more breathing room re snow and timings.
SEL
Well-Known Member
I'm sure he'd be fine if you wanted to take him back to your current barn and then move again. It will give you some breathing space to find the right place without feeling stressed.
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
I would take him back to his current barn for now, otherwise you will be rushing to find a place in the next two days. I've been there, it sucks, and you often make a desperate decision, not a good one. I would start looking for a more permanent location, however. You should have a few weeks before the snow really hits the fan.
The foothills got an unusual amount of snow last year. Some years, there's hardly any. It melts quicker too. The difference between 8000ft and 5000ft.
In your shoes, I would treat for EPM if the treatment is safe with no side-effects. That all said, here's my EPM story.
Back in the dark ages of 2003, I did a summer internship in NYC and moved Gypsum to spend the summer at a barn on Staten Island. I was at uni in Massachusetts, and this was between 2nd and 3rd year. The Staten Island BO was batsh*t, there was no turnout, but it was only a summer. Horse was coping, but not as fit as she usually is because I could only ride on the weekends. It was impossible to get from Manhattan to Staten Island to ride during the week. Anyway, at the end of the internship, I went home to CO to see my parents for two weeks and told BO to ride my horse, just to keep her ticking over.
Halfway through my holiday, I phoned BO to ask how Gypsum was. She said, "Oh, I had the vet come out last week and test her for EPM."
What???? Why? Has she fallen over? Why the hell am I hearing about this now?
"When I've ridden her, I've noticed she's stiffer on one side than the other."
Isn't every horse stiffer on one side than the other? That's like testing a human for MS because they only write with their right hand.
"More horses have EPM than you think."
Right, well, I'm in CO so there's nothing I can do about this.
I fly back to NY and go straight to barn. Horse is fine, no different than she was two weeks ago. I didn't see BO.
A few days later, I'm waiting for the subway and the vet calls my mobile. My horse tested low positive for EPM, and I owe them $100. The vet tells me that many horses, especially if they've been around the East Coast, for a while, will have a low positive result, and I shouldn't be too worried. Well, I wasn't worried in the first place, and why on earth did you test my horse for anything without permission? Vet said, "You need to take that up with BO." Did I? Did I f*ck. The BO was one of those hard-bitten, terrifying horsewoman, and I was a 19-year old college kid. I just ate the 100 bucks and left that barn with glee.
I asked my vet in MA about it, and he was like, "Almost every horse will show up with positive bloods. If it's not showing neuro symptoms, then whatever." The positive bloods don't necessarily mean that they have it.
The foothills got an unusual amount of snow last year. Some years, there's hardly any. It melts quicker too. The difference between 8000ft and 5000ft.
In your shoes, I would treat for EPM if the treatment is safe with no side-effects. That all said, here's my EPM story.
Back in the dark ages of 2003, I did a summer internship in NYC and moved Gypsum to spend the summer at a barn on Staten Island. I was at uni in Massachusetts, and this was between 2nd and 3rd year. The Staten Island BO was batsh*t, there was no turnout, but it was only a summer. Horse was coping, but not as fit as she usually is because I could only ride on the weekends. It was impossible to get from Manhattan to Staten Island to ride during the week. Anyway, at the end of the internship, I went home to CO to see my parents for two weeks and told BO to ride my horse, just to keep her ticking over.
Halfway through my holiday, I phoned BO to ask how Gypsum was. She said, "Oh, I had the vet come out last week and test her for EPM."
What???? Why? Has she fallen over? Why the hell am I hearing about this now?
"When I've ridden her, I've noticed she's stiffer on one side than the other."
Isn't every horse stiffer on one side than the other? That's like testing a human for MS because they only write with their right hand.
"More horses have EPM than you think."
Right, well, I'm in CO so there's nothing I can do about this.
I fly back to NY and go straight to barn. Horse is fine, no different than she was two weeks ago. I didn't see BO.
A few days later, I'm waiting for the subway and the vet calls my mobile. My horse tested low positive for EPM, and I owe them $100. The vet tells me that many horses, especially if they've been around the East Coast, for a while, will have a low positive result, and I shouldn't be too worried. Well, I wasn't worried in the first place, and why on earth did you test my horse for anything without permission? Vet said, "You need to take that up with BO." Did I? Did I f*ck. The BO was one of those hard-bitten, terrifying horsewoman, and I was a 19-year old college kid. I just ate the 100 bucks and left that barn with glee.
I asked my vet in MA about it, and he was like, "Almost every horse will show up with positive bloods. If it's not showing neuro symptoms, then whatever." The positive bloods don't necessarily mean that they have it.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Hey, thanks, and for your post.
Exactly the text from my vet is that all it shows is that he's been exposed, they think it's unlikely he has it (but possible). Have to treat anyway really, though. Imagine if he was that unlikely one.
expanding_horizon
Well-Known Member
That’s 90 minutes of driving round trip if traffic is perfect. I’d say that’s too far away?
Michen
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it sucks. But honestly I've explored the majority of barns that are in the Denver area and there's really very little options with proper turnout.