Boggle- USA bound!

[Michen]

What changed in the forage?

It's possible that Boggle could be affected but not Dusty since these type of things can vary from individual to individual.

It's simple enough to begin treatment for ulcers and see what happens.

Usually he has 50% hay, 50% alfalfa (hay from barn, alfalfa from a supplier I use).

This time the forage is a pre mixed 50% hay, 50% alfalfa, from the same supplier I always buy the alfalfa from. In theory he should still be getting the same hay/alfalfa ratio.

I'll send you the video of the trotting down hill

 

[BMA2]

Is the dodgy trot just a combination of him.not being 100% + downhill + uneven ground = a bit bleugh?

 

[Pinkvboots]

It could be the forage and the stopping of sulcrafate has coincided, mine are both sensitive to hay changing but Arabi is worse abd he can get grumpy if it alters his gut,cso I often put him on sulcrafate for about a week while I introduce it.

Maybe stick him back on it for now and see it won't do any harm.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Alot if horses don't go down hill very well I wouldn't worry too much about it as BMA2 said it could be the ground and him not feeling quite right.

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

Just a random suggestion but could he just be jealous?
I know one of mine gets jealous if I'm doing something with one of the others and not him. He remembers this and takes out his jealous rage on them when they return. As far as he's concerned he should be the centre of attention at all times. When people aren't around he's best buddies with his brother.

 

[teapot]

Breathe @Michen breathe.

Try and get him back on his usual forage and meds, re-asses in a few days It could be something as simple as a slight stomach imbalance (even change in grazing could do that), or maybe a tiny bit of stress from being on his own which has made him feel uncomfortable.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Usually he has 50% hay, 50% alfalfa (hay from barn, alfalfa from a supplier I use).

This time the forage is a pre mixed 50% hay, 50% alfalfa, from the same supplier I always buy the alfalfa from. In theory he should still be getting the same hay/alfalfa ratio.

I'll send you the video of the trotting down hill

Yeah, I don't know that would be enough to set him off (the hay).

I mean, he could be jealous, but a high level of aggression is concerning. Is he only aggressive when Dusty returns from somewhere? Or is it constant?

 

[Michen]

Thank you all for your replies. I do really appreciate it. For now I'm going to refrain from posting on here because I think I wind myself up with all these moments in time emotions, in all honesty I just find the whole thing so heartbreaking. I truly thought I'd done everything, successfully, to get Bog to a place of comfort and retirement where he could be spoiled every day for the rest of his life. I know many people (and have seen the odd indirect comment as such on other threads) think that I'm crazy, or maybe even cruel, for what I've spent, done and the lengths I've gone to to make him comfortable. Honestly, I thought I'd succeeded. But maybe they are right and maybe it's been selfish all along, I don't know. I'd like to think not, and that however much it would hurt me, I'd always put his welfare before my own even if that means PTS. There's been times I have been so close but Bog has just always bounced with this unwavering spirit and I always felt the answer would be completely obvious when we got there. But maybe that's not how this will go.

Barely even a week ago I'm looking at him in wonder because he looks 95% like a totally normal horse, and a happy, amazingly well looking one at that. A week later he's aggressive, angry and not right. I know this could just be a blip. I know I maybe wouldn't even have noticed this if the horses weren't at the house, and I wasn't seeing him 10 x a day. But I do notice and I don't ignore things.

I also know that I sound like a dramatic crazy person, and I don't really know why I'm so upset, but I am. Call it a gut feel. I promise I'll come back to this thread in a while and update whatever happens, thank you all of you xx

 

[Caol Ila]

Hang in there. Hopefully, it's just a blip. All horses have them -- sometimes it's nothing, sometimes not.

Moving and routine changes can definitely set off ulcers, so with Ockham's Razor and all, that's highly likely.

When Hermosa moved in next door to Fin's stable, there was definitely some jealously and upset behaviour on his part. He'd thought he was an 'only horse' and was shocked to discover he had a sister. That's some Jeremy Kyle stuff for you. She wasn't as bothered, but she hadn't been an 'only horse' all that much because she had Caso for seven months, and when she lived at the other yard, I wasn't there every day. So from her POV, she won because she now saw me every day, even if she did have to share me with Fin. Plus, she's not a stressy horse in the way he is. And she's better at thinking through these things. "Mum rides him, then she rides me. Sometimes, she rides me, then she rides him. It's all good." Fin says, "OMG it's all different, and I can't cope with change, and why are you riding that bay horse!!!???" Poor guy was very upset because I had to change my yard routine to accommodate two in the same place. Some horses really care about that sort of thing. Others aren't as bothered.

OH and I just got on with things and let him get used to it. That winter wasn't much fun, I'm not gonna lie. He was an idiot for most of it. But he did get used to it and is fine with it now. Took a while, though.

 

[Cowpony]

Michen, read your own words
"When I moved him, I gave him sucralfate twice a day as a matter of course, I can't remember what day I finished it but probably a good 4/5 days before this aggression started."
Could it not be that the sucralfate hadn't quite done its job, and he still needs it? I don't know how long it remains in the body, but this timescale would ring alarm bells for me.

 

[scats]

Michen, I salute you for your commitment to Boggle and he absolutely couldn’t ask for a more caring owner. I hope you don’t think I’m speaking out of turn here, because that’s truly not my intention.
I just worry at how badly you are affected by the inevitable bumps in the road with him. He’s going to have times when, for whatever reason, he doesn’t seem his normal self. 9 times out of 10 he will be absolutely fine the following week, which he has proved on a number of occasions.
All horses are the same, they sometimes throw odd behaviour into the mix- sometimes it turns out to be something, other times it doesn’t.

I hope that hasn’t come across the wrong way, I wouldn’t say it to just anyone, but I do genuinely care about you and Boggle and feel invested in your journey x

 

[Maxidoodle]

michen, don’t stop posting, there’s no one that could call you out for what you’re doing for Bog, you’re giving him everything and a lot more than most could even consider/could afford.

Ive done the “all alone in a foreign country” thing for years and this forum is the perfect place for you to get support and ideal as you can get advice/support from others, I know when I’ve had issues with one of mine before, it’s so easy to be thinking the worst, as you’re so close to the issues, when in reality, there’s some possible solutions that you can’t process yourself with being emotionally invested. I hope this makes sense (I struggle sometimes to put down in English after years in a foreign country), I think it’s safe to say we are all here for you.

I’d get him back on the sucralfate and try to change his forage back to what it was and take it from there.

 

[meleeka]

I think you’ve misunderstood what’s been said on other threads. I haven’t read one thing that has implied you’ve done the wrong thing. There’s a big difference between keeping a horse going that’s old or in pain, when that’s only going to get worse. I think some posters were horrified by how much he’s cost you (as were you), but you obviously have the means to pay it and were happy to, so that’s really up to you. Bog has suffered far less than you have throughout all this, so it’s not a welfare issue at all. Hes been living his best up until now, with the best care he could have. I really hope it something of nothing and he’s back to his usual self soon. I’ve no doubt you’ll do everything you can to get to the cause and will do the best for him.

 

[Peglo]

Oh Michen, I’m so sorry your feeling so low but if anyone thinks you’ve done wrong by Bog they can do one. I’m envious you have the means to pay what you have for him and the care available to you both. There is nothing you’ve done with Bog’s health that could be deemed as unfair to him. He’s coped well with all his vet care and he has come out looking amazing everytime. Of course many wouldn’t/couldn’t spend what you did but that’s nothing to do with your decisions for him.

I had a wobble with mine last week and for the first time probably since I lost Peggy I wondered if I wanted horses. I was low, tired, probably hadn’t eaten enough the day before (which has a massive effect on my moods) and I wanted to give up. Next morning Tali flicked her forelock, as she does, like ‘she’s worth it’ and that was enough to ease any wobbles and put that smile back on my face the way she always does.

So be down or be high, post here or don’t, cry or laugh, be angry or thankful but please don’t ever feel you haven’t done right by Bog. We’re here if and when you need us and we are all rooting for you, Bog and Dusty.

Oh and I miss the pig!

 

[sportsmansB]

I basically mortgaged myself to the hilt and bought a house with land so I could retire my old boy at home, and last week when he was slopping through the inevitable mud looking miserable and sad, I thought what have I done to this wonderful horse, maybe I should have just let him go when we knew he'd never be ridden again, and this retirement is for me and not for him- he was such a proud and pampered boy.
Then in a few weeks when the mud clears up and the weather is warmer and he's out with the sun on his back and whinny's at me from the field but doesn't come flying over because he has lots of lovely grass and is really content, I'm hoping I'll remember why.

You have done your very best with every situation, please don't beat yourself up. I'd love to be reincarnated as one of your animals and I'm sure I'm not the only one!

 

[Titchy Pony]

Thank you all for your replies. I do really appreciate it. For now I'm going to refrain from posting on here because I think I wind myself up with all these moments in time emotions, in all honesty I just find the whole thing so heartbreaking. I truly thought I'd done everything, successfully, to get Bog to a place of comfort and retirement where he could be spoiled every day for the rest of his life. I know many people (and have seen the odd indirect comment as such on other threads) think that I'm crazy, or maybe even cruel, for what I've spent, done and the lengths I've gone to to make him comfortable. Honestly, I thought I'd succeeded. But maybe they are right and maybe it's been selfish all along, I don't know. I'd like to think not, and that however much it would hurt me, I'd always put his welfare before my own even if that means PTS. There's been times I have been so close but Bog has just always bounced with this unwavering spirit and I always felt the answer would be completely obvious when we got there. But maybe that's not how this will go.

Barely even a week ago I'm looking at him in wonder because he looks 95% like a totally normal horse, and a happy, amazingly well looking one at that. A week later he's aggressive, angry and not right. I know this could just be a blip. I know I maybe wouldn't even have noticed this if the horses weren't at the house, and I wasn't seeing him 10 x a day. But I do notice and I don't ignore things.

I also know that I sound like a dramatic crazy person, and I don't really know why I'm so upset, but I am. Call it a gut feel. I promise I'll come back to this thread in a while and update whatever happens, thank you all of you xx

Oh @Michen, I don't know you, so I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but you seem to feel everything so intensely, perhaps more so after the series of disasters of the last year or so. And now Boggle is taking you for a rollercoaster ride of ups and downs, which must be exhausting. I hope things can even out to more gentle waves soon and that Boggle lets that happen (he does seem to have a flair for the dramatic).
In the kindest possible way, you are crazy, but no more than any of us on here, and you are definitely crazy about Boggle. He is one lucky horse and any horse would be lucky to have you caring for them. You have done everything for for Boggle. How successful that it was, only time will tell, but there is nothing more you could have done. I've no doubt that Boggle will be spoilt for the rest of his life, may it be long and uneventful!
We all know you you have done everything for Boggle and will carry on doing so, whatever may be best for him. I think you know this too, though you may not always believe it. Now please look after yourself as well. Hope to see you back here soon with positive news.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Don't stop posting no one thinks any of those bad thing honestly everyone loves you and your horses on here.

I had a similar situation a few weeks back I got some very green spiky hay and both of mine got loose droppings with water, I know it upsets Arabi when his gut is not right I was trying everything until I could get some other hay.

He was getting grumpy and greedy over the hay chasing Louis away from it I did get delivered some other stuff so they were fine after a few days.

Even a slight change of anything can affect some horses if they are very sensitive I know that having Arabi for 18 years, Louis is much simpler in that respect but in context we can't all be perfect and sometimes no matter what we do it can go a bit wrong.

So your not alone with this it happens to all of us.

 

[DabDab]

Michen you are amazing, and you've done a wonderful job with Bog and his recent health issues. You are an incredible owner and nobody could realistically say any different.

I don't know Bog, so may be way off the mark, but my Arty has been known to express herself through a sort of anguished anger set of expressions when all is not right in her world. This is usually as a result of lots of low level/emotional things being wrong with her world than anything significant physical. The significant physical things she's is actually bizarrely stoic about. 9 months ago I spent 10 mins in her stable crying my eyes out because I couldn't get a head collar on her and I was convinced I had broken my horse forever. But I hadn't, she was fine given time (obviously she did see a vet, but there wasn't really anything to diagnose), losing Dabs had just started something off with her that spiralled fairly rapidly.

It might be something similar with Bog and he'll be fine (or as fine as he was at least) once he has properly settled into the new routine, food and home. And if not then I'm sure you will deal with that too and find a way to help him, but you need to give yourself a bit of breathing space from the state of panic.

 

[Trouper]

I think you are right to take some time away from re-living every twist and turn with Bog by reporting it here. Sometimes it just gets too much to have to explain every nuance to a third party - however interested and supportive they might be - and you need all the energy and brain power to think things through for yourself at this stage. When you are at peak exhaustion with something you have to conserve what little energy you have to deal with only those things which are essential.

You know we are all here for you - when you are ready.

 

[Michen]

Thank you. I’m dropping back in to explain why I’m so upset, now that I’m a little calmer. In brief terms. When Bog arrived he upended himself into a load of snow, being a complete idiot. Nothing to do with ataxia just horses being horses. Afterwards I popped him on the lunge and he was short striding and looked a little stiff, but was fine in walk and seemed happy. So I’ve been walking him out, he’s been looking great, and I thought this would help with any stiffness in the trot.

In addition since his adhesion tore in that hind leg he’s been a bit weird about doing forelimb stretches. Fine I thought, he’s probably sore and he doesn’t want to put extra weight on it. Now, it’s worsened to the point I can barely get him to bring his leg forward. It’s like he’s totally locked at the shoulder.

After seeing him trot downhill weird yesterday I popped him back on the lunge to see how he was. He looks awful. Short, stiff, and even getting him to trot on the lunge is hard. When I pushed him to a little bit, he went head nodding lame on this right fore.

This is on pain relief. This is 3.5 weeks post what could have caused it (although he could have been this lame in the trot before, I wouldn’t know, because he’s been on stall/run rest for a few weeks with the adhesion thing).

The lameness is NOT an acceptable amount for a retired horse. Not one bit. There’s no heat or swelling anywhere. He’s had acupuncture. Other than starting with nerve blocks, how do I even begin to find the cause? And what’s the point? If this was stiffness from what he did, I’d expect it to be gone nearly a month later. Or certainly improving.

I’m waiting to hear back from the vet who’s due out next Thursday anyway, but I am hoping to get someone sooner. I am treating him for ulcers of course to keep him comfortable, but I honestly feel we are at the end of the road. It’s not ok to “wait and see” on this lameness for much longer. He may look good in walk but a retired horse still needs to be mostly comfortable at the trot, and he’s not. Maybe it was what he did being an idiot, goodness knows what he could actually have done, but I suspect it’s more likely his neck bothering him and presenting in front.

I just wanted to update to give a fuller picture about it all, rather than just a “bogs angry and my world is falling apart”

 

[dorsetladette]

He's lucky to have you Michen! Take care of yourself as well as bog! xx

 

[Petalpoos]

Thanks for the update @Michen . You do whatever you think is right for you, including staying off this forum if that helps, and to hell with what anyone else may think. Bogs could never have found a better owner and you are the only person who knows what is needed. I wish you well and big hugs from another person who doesn’t actually know you but who has followed your story all the way through.

 

[Michen]

I really hope this doesn’t come across as some sort of strop lol, that’s not the case whatsoever, I couldn’t have had more wonderful support. I think it’s just like TP said further up I do feel everything so much (this is both a blessing and a curse in my life- I am literally a mirror image of Boggle in many ways), and then I write it down on here and wind myself up even more.

The body is a weird thing. You’d think that with everything that’s happened with him in the last year, there would be times where I’d felt he was closer to death than I do now. But right now it feels somehow more real. I guess because I’ve already DONE everything, there is nothing more, and unless the vets can give me some miraculously easy reason and cure for how he’s currently trotting, I KNOW the correct thing to do is to PTS. A horse that can’t comfortably trot is living in a constant amount of pain, they must be. And seeing him trot in the field ok when elevated doesn’t count, we know adrenalin does a lot for that.

I just thought when Bogs time came it would be clear cut in his eyes and although yes, he’s angry at Dusty, to me and around me he’s still the pushy, bright, cheerful little horse he always is. But that’s just Bog, he’d be like that even if his leg was hanging off, it just makes it harder.

I promise I will update when a decisions been made/done. X

 

[Ceriann]

You are an incredibly thoughtful and caring owner - you adore Bog and are doing everything you can for him. Some think that’s crazy, I suspect most on here think that’s amazing (which might make us all crazy too). It’s very hard having a vulnerable horse (or any animal) due to injury/illness, the constant monitoring can be so intense and your sense of responsibility is always going to make it extra hard. Go easy on yourself.

 

[Michen]

I spoke to the vet and made a plan. I'm going to go pick up some bute (stronger than equioxx). and give that for 5 days. Take him off it, then vet will come out thursday. Assuming he still looks terrible, we will do a fetlock block down to rule out something stupid like hoof bruising (though how, who knows). Assuming he doesn't block to lower down, and it looks like it's the neck, he will be PTS there and then.

With continued gastro/sucralfate support, up until then of course.

 

[meleeka]

I just thought when Bogs time came it would be clear cut in his eyes and although yes, he’s angry at Dusty, to me and around me he’s still the pushy, bright, cheerful little horse he always is. But that’s just Bog, he’d be like that even if his leg was hanging off, it just makes it harder.

I promise I will update when a decisions been made/done. X

I have one just like this, so know what you mean. She’s old, but nobody has told her that. I know she probably hasn’t got another winter in her, but this morning she was squealing and doing 360 turns kicking out at the shetlands, all because they wanted to share her bit of grass! She never actually does kick, she’s just quite dramatic.

I’ll be thinking of you both. He’s very lucky he’s got you. x

 

[splashgirl45]

We are all behind you whatever your decision is, you always do your best for him and it’s obvious how much you love him…. Please remember to look after yourself as you need to be strong for him. Good luck xx

 

[CanteringCarrot]

.

 

[Michen]

I’m so upset. I told one of my friends here and she can’t understand why I’d PTS a horse that’s retired and only lame at the trot.

Now I feel like a murderer.

 

[Meredith]

I’m so upset. I told one of my friends here and she can’t understand why I’d PTS a horse that’s retired and only lame at the trot.

Now I feel like a murderer.

Michen if your friend can’t understand that lameness means pain I wouldn’t bother about their opinion.
Sending extra hugs..