Boggle- USA bound!

[Emilieu]

It’s the most dreadful rollercoaster in the world. I was on it four years ago, thankfully I never felt like my decision was questioned exactly but I remember feeling so angry at well meaning comments like ‘you are so unlucky with horses’ and ‘you don’t deserve this’, like it was somehow my fault I was losing him. Totally not anyone’s intention but that’s how I felt it. In some ways it might be better just to tell others after it’s done, although I appreciate you are just looking for support. I’m very sure they are trying to be helpful and that if it goes ahead will be absolutely nothing but supportive to you and Dusty. Sending you strength vibes for your brain and peace vibes for your heart xx

 

[splashgirl45]

It’s never easy to make that final decision but whenever I have had to do it I only told people who needed to know, with my first horse I didn’t tell my parents who I lived with at the time until afterwards, my mum absolutely understood my reasons my dad didn’t . No one could say you haven’t done everything possible for him, but make sure you aren’t thinking of Thursday as a deadline partly because of having to move. If the travelling back to the other barn (where you were both happy) is not going to make him worse would it be worth delaying that final decision and taking him back and reassessing. Just throwing that suggestion in as an option and no way saying you shouldn’t make that decision on Thursday if the vet findings are as bad as you think.. whatever you decide will be the right decision as you are thinking of Bog’s comfort… hope it’s not as bad as you fear and please try and eat something and also keep hydrated…

 

[Michen]

It’s never easy to make that final decision but whenever I have had to do it I only told people who needed to know, with my first horse I didn’t tell my parents who I lived with at the time until afterwards, my mum absolutely understood my reasons my dad didn’t . No one could say you haven’t done everything possible for him, but make sure you aren’t thinking of Thursday as a deadline partly because of having to move. If the travelling back to the other barn (where you were both happy) is not going to make him worse would it be worth delaying that final decision and taking him back and reassessing. Just throwing that suggestion in as an option and no way saying you shouldn’t make that decision on Thursday if the vet findings are as bad as you think.. whatever you decide will be the right decision as you are thinking of Bog’s comfort… hope it’s not as bad as you fear and please try and eat something and also keep hydrated…

Yes I'm definitely reminding myself of that. But I'm worried if I take him back, they will see how perky and normal he looks and think I'm even more crazy/awful. And he does, unless you see his lameness, or watched him very closely behavior wise, you'd think he was absolutely fine. So I feel like I can't go back because I can't go back and PTS there. But obviously, I am going to do whatever is best for Bog and not PTS here rather than at the barn just because of this, if that's the way it works out for whatever reason.

But it just all adds an unnecessary layer of turmoil to consider, that I didn't think I had to.

It's just an absolute mess. And the two other people I feel I could have had around to help me, organise Boggle removal if it happens, maybe trailer Dusty because god knows I don't know if I'll be in a state to drive, are not in the state next week on the day the vet comes.

So I feel utterly, completely alone in this logistics wise. But I am a tough cookie really and will get it done/sorted, it just sucks.

 

[splashgirl45]

I see what you are saying but if the people at the barn see that he is lame surely the perkiness won’t fool them and you shouldn’t really be worrying about what other people think. The reason I don’t discuss with other people is I am perfectly capable of understanding what is best for my own horse and don’t need any other suggestions as I would have considered every feasible option for not PTS. You are , from the sound of your posts, a sensible , strong minded person and are posting your thoughts on here and if you look back you have plenty of support from those of us who have been through similar. If you need further assurance why not phone up your vet here and have a chat with them, I think you did say you had a good relationship so it might help you to put things in perspective with someone who knows Bog and you…

 

[Michen]

I see what you are saying but if the people at the barn see that he is lame surely the perkiness won’t fool them and you shouldn’t really be worrying about what other people think. The reason I don’t discuss with other people is I am perfectly capable of understanding what is best for my own horse and don’t need any other suggestions as I would have considered every feasible option for not PTS. You are , from the sound of your posts, a sensible , strong minded person and are posting your thoughts on here and if you look back you have plenty of support from those of us who have been through similar. If you need further assurance why not phone up your vet here and have a chat with them, I think you did say you had a good relationship so it might help you to put things in perspective with someone who knows Bog and you…

To see he's lame you'd need to look at him in the arena, rather than loose in the field where he's elevated type thing.

I know, I shouldn't worry, I'm just hurt by it. I wonder if the thought is that now I want to keep Dusty for the forseeable, I'm happy to "get rid" of Bog. That could not be further from the truth, but maybe that's how it could seem if you haven't known me that long/read everything on here/know the full extent of what I'd do for that horse. I dunno.

I might call my vet, but I don't want to cry at him.

 

[cauda equina]

Could you email him setting out your thoughts and ask him to call you back?

 

[Michen]

Could you email him setting out your thoughts and ask him to call you back?

Yes I could but I'm soooo emotional right now any contact with anyone I think will result in my crying, and it's that hard kind of choking crying, not the sort of tears gently streaming down your face where you can cry and still talk.

I also think I need to just see how the next 3/4 days pan out before contacting him with the facts. See if Bog seems mentally better with the ulcer meds/bute, and then see how bad he looks when he's taken off the bute tuesday, for the vet to review him thursday. I am being super aggressive with the ulcer meds so he's getting sucralfate every 6 hours (so last dose at 12pm, first dose at 6am, omeprazole as well), and the vet reckons I should see a difference very quickly if it's going to make one. The only, only thought I'm holding on to is that when he stacked it in the snow and made himself sore, I made him more sore by doing all the in hand walking (because I didn't re check him in trot, because he looked so good in walk, because I'm an idiot). So maybe, just maybe I completely mucked up and he just needs some proper rest and more time. I'm sure if I stacked it in the snow I'd be sore too, but a month on does seem excessive.

But, I have a niggling feeling re those forelimb stretches being off which was before all this, so that brings me back down to reality a bit. I wish I'd had a look at him in the trot before he left the barn, so I'd have known what the starting point was!

Lol, who was I kidding when I thought I could not post my thoughts and updates in here, it was a stupid notion

 

[GrassChop]

Can he have the odd trot and canter in his field and remain sound?

 

[Michen]

Can he have the odd trot and canter in his field and remain sound?

He's trotting and cantering around right now, looking fine (when not going downhill), but when they do that it's of course adrenalin making him look better because Bog trots and canters around when he reckons there's something to get excited about (frequent), when the reality is he's not trotting sound when relaxed which equals pain. If that makes sense?

 

[GrassChop]

He's trotting and cantering around right now, looking fine (when not going downhill), but when they do that it's of course adrenalin making him look better because Bog trots and canters around when he reckons there's something to get excited about (frequent), when the reality is he's not trotting sound when relaxed which equals pain. If that makes sense?

That makes sense. So if you trotted him up in a straight line, is he lame?

 

[Michen]

That makes sense. So if you trotted him up in a straight line, is he lame?

I *think* so, it's hard for me to tell because I'm alone here and haven't seen anyone trot him up, so I'm kinda looking over my shoulder. I looked at him by popping him on the lunge (but not on a circle, kinda following him with it) in the arena, and asking him to trot loose in there too. It's also hard because it's more of a stiffness/shortness than a lameness (well, that is lame), but when I really pushed him to trot he did go lame on the right fore with a proper head nod.

 

[splashgirl45]

Again I say , do not worry about what other people think, you know your horse and will know when or if it is his time to go.. the fact that Dusty is around doesn’t make any difference to your decision. We know that , you know that!! So what other people think isn’t important…

 

[GrassChop]

I *think* so, it's hard for me to tell because I'm alone here and haven't seen anyone trot him up, so I'm kinda looking over my shoulder. I looked at him by popping him on the lunge (but not on a circle, kinda following him with it) in the arena, and asking him to trot loose in there too. It's also hard because it's more of a stiffness/shortness than a lameness (well, that is lame), but when I really pushed him to trot he did go lame on the right fore with a proper head nod.

Could you pop your phone up somewhere so you can record him trotting up in a straight line?
Personally, and don't shoot me down for this anyone as we all have different opinions, if a horse is sound in the field, sound having the odd trot or canter in the field in a straight line, then I would say he's field sound and okay for retirement. No lunging as it sounds like it aggravates it.

To be honest, what you said about how he went head nodding lame sounds like whatever he had done might have been healing and then he just pulled it again. If he was mine, I'd keep him on box rest with a small turn out pen for another 6 weeks and if he's sound in walk and trot in a straight line then he's comfortable enough to be retired to the field providing he stays sound even if he nobs about sometimes. Having said that, I don't know Bog, you see him everyday and you can see where there are changes. He seems happy enough, he's not depressed, he's eating, he's just lame on a circle but a horse with the issues he has, I wouldn't expect him not to be a bit awkward on a circle I don't think?

 

[DabDab]

Oftentimes the shocked/surprised reaction to news of pts being considered for a much loved animal is something along the line of 'is there nothing else that could be done' /'is it really that bad', but that's generally not the true, measured, reflective reaction, just an instinctive shocked reaction if that makes sense.

Try not to take it to heart and add it to your worries.

 

[Michen]

Could you pop your phone up somewhere so you can record him trotting up in a straight line?
Personally, and don't shoot me down for this anyone as we all have different opinions, if a horse is sound in the field, sound having the odd trot or canter in the field in a straight line, then I would say he's field sound and okay for retirement. No lunging as it sounds like it aggravates it.

To be honest, what you said about how he went head nodding lame sounds like whatever he had done might have been healing and then he just pulled it again. If he was mine, I'd keep him on box rest with a small turn out pen for another 6 weeks and if he's sound in walk and trot in a straight line then he's comfortable enough to be retired to the field providing he stays sound even if he nobs about sometimes. Having said that, I don't know Bog, you see him everyday and you can see where there are changes. He seems happy enough, he's not depressed, he's eating, he's just lame on a circle but a horse with the issues he has, I wouldn't expect him not to be a bit awkward on a circle I don't think?

He's not just lame on a circle. He's lame/short/stiff loose in the arena at a relaxed trot.

Over and out now guys, thank you again for everything xx

 

[Equi]

We will all be thinking about you and sending our love across the airwaves

 

[Slightlyconfused]

My WB was on off slightly lame RH over a summer a few years ago....she was retired with bad KS for a few years. She waa happy with ground work and just faffing but would not have anyone sit on her.

We xrayed and it showed the start if arthritis in he stifle so after a chat with my vet we PTS the next day, it was sunny, her companion was with her and it was right. Some said I could have managed her with bute for a few years but at 14 that would be a long time and as its stifle i knew at some point she would struggle to get up and down and the risk if getting stuck ovwrwhelmed me.

So I let her go when she looked fab in body and mind and I had that picture of her in my head.

Love and hugs

Xx

 

[nutjob]

In addition since his adhesion tore in that hind leg he’s been a bit weird about doing forelimb stretches. Fine I thought, he’s probably sore and he doesn’t want to put extra weight on it. Now, it’s worsened to the point I can barely get him to bring his leg forward. It’s like he’s totally locked at the shoulder.

My wobbler is tricky to pick out his front feet. It's a two person job because he tends to stand with the back feet very close together which makes him unstable with a front foot lifted. He went through a phase where he wouldn't allow it and was striking out every time the front was picked up including under vet sedation. We did a huge amount of retraining with him to get him to stand square at the back and give him treats while the front feet are picked out to make sure he remains still and doesn't shuffle about which tends to ends up with the unstable stance. It started when he had an abscess and had to have the foot held for longer to change the dressing so I was convinced it was something sinister in the front foot.

I always try to give my horses a happy retirement if I can but sometimes it doesn't work out. You will be able to make a better decision once you know if this is something that will resolve with time or will deteriorate, I hope you get goods news at the vet visit.

 

[Trouper]

Don't pressurise yourself so much with thinking of Thursday as the deadline (sorry - unfortunate word) - treat it as a review day with your vet and make the decision you have to make as a joint opinion. Just now you don't know what that decision might be because there are several days yet for the drugs to make a difference. I am not holding out false hope - just being realistic. (I still remain in the camp of going a day too early than a day too late).

If it is pts, then I agree you don't want to move Bog back beforehand and you sure as Hell don't need the uneducated censure of people there. So that leaves the issue of Dusty. Would your friends entertain the thought of Dusty staying put for a week or so while you find a new place for him? Would the "rescue" place he came from help you out for a short period for similar reasons. You need help with these issues so please don't go on struggling with them entirely on your own - ask for help in these waiting days so that you can make sensible plans.

We all know how these, possibly, last waiting days are the worst imaginable for us. Look after yourself.

 

[Yeomans]

Take one day at a time. Please look after yourself and remember there are a lot of people here that are willing to listen and wont judge.

 

[Michen]

Morning all. Thank you for the comments and posts. Boggle is a LOT better to Dusty this morning but I’m not sure if it’s because he’s so thrilled it’s snowed. Fresh snow, his favourite thing. So they are both busy snuffling around. I’m seeing lots of gelding bitey face play but not the totally out of no where running at him for just grazing with his teeth open that I had been seeing.

Obviously not getting my hopes up but I’m very happy that he’s hopefully feeling a bit better at least until the vet comes and we make a decision.

That is a Boggle play face, not a Boggle I’m going to kill you face! Though Dusty is now a little unsure

 

[splashgirl45]

Perhaps you could eat something today and relax a bit

 

[Michen]

I’m just forcing down a disgusting protein shake! There are levels of horse depression IMO. The highest for me is no eating. The one just below is stuffing my face with anything I can get my hands on.

Every time I get a little porky here, Boggle fixes it Or a shark.

 

[SEL]

Just catching up - I'm so sorry Michen I didn't realise Bog was struggling.

Whatever happens I think your yard do genuinely care about you. Sometimes people just don't say stuff particularly well. I very much hope it's both horses you take back there but if it's the worst news for Bog then I reckon you'll be welcomed back with a hug. No one who has known you for any length of time would think you have anything over than his best interests at heart

Very much hoping this is just a blip though.

 

[Michen]

Just catching up - I'm so sorry Michen I didn't realise Bog was struggling.

Whatever happens I think your yard do genuinely care about you. Sometimes people just don't say stuff particularly well. I very much hope it's both horses you take back there but if it's the worst news for Bog then I reckon you'll be welcomed back with a hug. No one who has known you for any length of time would think you have anything over than his best interests at heart

Very much hoping this is just a blip though.

I know you are totally right and they do. I know they really do. It truly is a family there, as they said themselves in a message to me. I am just so hurt and in such a heightened state of distress that it’s hard to stay rational. And I’m a hot head, much like my damn horse, so when something upsets me I have a tendency to run as far away from it as possible and cut the ties. Which often can be self destructive!

I have plan A, B, C at the moment and am working on plan D. I have to be practical as well for Dusty, for Bog, for my own sanity.

I’ve also spoken with the rescue to tell them I’ll keep Dusty indefinitely (unless an amazing person for him turns up). They actually offered to pay half his board/costs still, but I told them no and to go use the money to save another horse, I’ve got him covered for now. Now ya’ll will think I really am a nut job lol. But it just feels right somehow. And if Bog does leave me, I will need his gentle presence even if it’s not for a while. Plus I’ve already half ruined him spoiling him with treats and stuff, because obviously I’m doing that to Boggle so he has to get them too, so I’ll need to undo that at some point .

 

[splashgirl45]

I’m glad you are keeping Dusty, if you lose Bog, which I really hope you don’t, Dusty will help you to carry on. If Bog is still happy in retirement you will have a riding horse which will partly make up for not riding Bog…. When I said eat I meant food, not a protein shake but I suppose it’s better than nothing ..

 

[SEL]

Well I don't think you're a nut job! Two freebies here eating grass, one who is living a life of luxury after early retirement.....

I internalise stuff like you're dealing with so I'd be as bad. Different (I hate protein shakes!) to how you deal, but just as stressed

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

They have a thing here called Huel which I ‘eat ‘ when I can’t eat. Usually horse related. It’s supposed to be a meal in liquid form . It’s pretty disgusting but it does fill me up and I don’t have to cook it so I totally get why you are on the protein shakes.
Exciting news about Dusty and fingers crossed Bog is beginning to feel a bit better.
Thinking of you all and Pepper.

 

[meleeka]

Yay for Dusty being permanent! I hope he knows how lucky he is.

 

[Ceriann]

If it helps I treat all mine all the time - all good behaviour reward based. No reason to stop it ever . Glad Bog is not as reactive - whatever happens, day by day is also important for you all.