Boggle- USA bound!

Thank you everyone. He’s the same this morning. Obviously my plan of staying away didn’t materialize though I have to leave for work Wednesday. I don’t know what to do, I feel like I should be euthanizing him. He seems sad and fed up now and his cheeky little eye is quiet.

I don’t know how long it’s reasonable to ask him to suffer in the hope of a good outcome.

Here’s the report. Makes for grim reading, I hadn’t realised he was sensible to neck palpitations.

My friend says epm can present very one sided so that would kind of make sense. Also possible he hurt his leg when he became ataxic. She definitely doesn’t think this is a baby horse being dramatic over an abscess.

F***. Just, F***.

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Michen said:
Thank you everyone. He’s the same this morning. Obviously my plan of staying away didn’t materialize though I have to leave for work Wednesday. I don’t know what to do, I feel like I should be euthanizing him. He seems sad and fed up now and his cheeky little eye is quiet.

I don’t know how long it’s reasonable to ask him to suffer in the hope of a good outcome.

Here’s the report. Makes for grim reading, I hadn’t realised he was sensible to neck palpitations.

F***. Just, F***.

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I don't know much about his diagnosis but was having a read up yesterday and found a paper written in south Africa and testing carried out on a number of horses
Infection presented in many cases a lot being linked to mossie bites
Now I know it's to cold for you for that but infection in general
Could/would it be worth asking the vet about a strong course of antibiotics?
I can go and find the paper I was reading if needed as I say though...I know little about his condition but something's don't hurt to try
 
Michen said:
His bloodwork was clean though I think something would show?
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I honestly don't know the answer
The study was in a nother country and from memory linked to parasites often associated with cattle.
It was a paper on hind limb ataxia
And was generally interesting hence reading most of it

Epidemiological investigation of equine hindlimb ataxia with Setaria digitata in South Korea - PMC

Since 2013, the number of requests for diagnosis for horses based on neurological symptoms has increased rapidly in South Korea. The affected horses have commonly exhibited symptoms of acute seasonal hindlimb ataxia. A previous study from 2015–2016 ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Can it be proved unequivocally that it is EPM or is it like with grass sickness and judged on presentation of symptoms. I know grass sickness can be diagnosed post portem . .Fom what I've read seems that like with grass sickness outcomes aren't good and full recovery limited.
You should go with your gut and PTS if you feel it's the right thing to do you would get no criticism from most people.
Having watched a friend nurse a horse through grass sickness and fail he was PTS after 6 weeks it was a physical and mental rollercoaster which I personally would not want to get on board ever with a horse of mine.
I know it's not grass sickness but as in this country we have little experience of EPM it's the only thing I can correlate to ( I know they are very different things)
I also read that 48% of horses in the USA have come into contact with.EMP.
Life is unfair and it's heartbreaking to face this again so soon but think hard and factor your own mental health into the equation
So sorry you are having to deal with this
 
Because I personally feel more at peace with pts if I know what's wrong with the horse, and an approximation of what the future will look like, I would have the neck and back xray'd if it can be done on site. If there's a deformity or injury then that would be it for me given his current condition. In my horse, the neck xray was abnormal enough to indicate a problem even though you can't see if the spinal cord is compressed without a ct myelogram.

If xray's are OK I would wait for the bloodwork - it appears that some of the tests are still pending? If it's lyme it looks like he has a fair chance of successful treatment if it's EPM not so good and it looks like testing for this produces both false negatives and false positives. Does the local vet think that either of these are likely in your local area? If not then it starts to look more like he's had an accident.

Only you know how bad he is, whether it's fair to wait a few more days for more information, how far you want to go with investigations and what you are OK with for his future.

I'm very sorry it's a dreadful situation.
 
Michen said:
Thank you everyone. He’s the same this morning. Obviously my plan of staying away didn’t materialize though I have to leave for work Wednesday. I don’t know what to do, I feel like I should be euthanizing him. He seems sad and fed up now and his cheeky little eye is quiet.

I don’t know how long it’s reasonable to ask him to suffer in the hope of a good outcome.

Here’s the report. Makes for grim reading, I hadn’t realised he was sensible to neck palpitations.

My friend says epm can present very one sided so that would kind of make sense. Also possible he hurt his leg when he became ataxic. She definitely doesn’t think this is a baby horse being dramatic over an abscess.

F***. Just, F***.

View attachment 154632
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The report is a tough read. I'm so sorry you and Atlas are going through this hell. All you can do is listen to your vet and trust your gut. FFS.
 
No words. Just love and sympathy to you both.
ETA, whatever you decide will be right for you and Atlas, you will receive no judgement from me. Not that it means much. But anyone who has followed your journey knows that you put the horse first and foremost, and none of your choices are based on what's easiest for you. M, my heart goes out to you
 
So to answer a few questions. No the EPM test will show a titer. If it’s sky high you can safely assume ish that it’s relevant. He’s more than likely exposed. Taking spinal fluid is the only real proof, very expensive and invasive, you may as well just treat.

I feel like I’ve lost my faith in neck x rays because they never showed anything for Boggle.

I know that time will give me more answers than diagnostics in some ways.

If it’s EPM I should see an improvement with the meds within about 1 week- 10 days.

My vet thinks EPM is very possible because he came from Minnesota where it’s common.
 
I think I'm going to lose it tbh guys, this situation is so screwed up. 72 hours ago I was so happy, I met someone earlier this year who has literally turned my world upside down- first guy to properly do that in 33 years and to meet in Tucson of all places, where neither of us actually live.

He got back here yesterday and I feel like he's the only reason I'm not just rocking in a corner to be honest, but this is very many steps skipped to be around for what's probably inevitable here.

I get that the universe doesn't take without giving but f*** sake, could I not have had both?

Alright, pity party over. It just really really sucks.
 
You know I am with you on the PTS but, for me, there are just still a few too many question marks on taking that course now. I would want just a bit more certainty so that for the rest of my life I could live with a quiet mind on what I had done for him.

But none of us is walking in your shoes and it is a lonely decision to make - we can only hold you in our thoughts.
 
I really am so sorry you are going through this.

I've never looked into what EPM is, I didn't realise it was something that can be caused by contaminated water/feed mainly in America (so it says online). That's extremely scary for horse owners where this is common. :( Are there no better tests to confirm it? Can't they take samples from food and water sources? Sorry for being ignorant to it, I just hadn't heard of it previously.
 
I know it’s totally different to a horse but my dog suffered a spinal stroke over Christmas break. Couldn’t walk on his front left leg, wobbly on his left hind and torso instability. It was horrific - for him as he couldn’t understand what was going on but he was distressed, and us. We got a diagnosis and prognosis but the latter was full of ifs, buts and maybes. He made significant improvements in the first couple of weeks but they were really tough going. I guess what I’m saying is maybe give you and him a little bit of time if he’s safe and stable. It’s so natural to think the worst and plan for that.
 
GrassChop said:
I really am so sorry you are going through this.

I've never looked into what EPM is, I didn't realise it was something that can be caused by contaminated water/feed mainly in America (so it says online). That's extremely scary for horse owners where this is common. :( Are there no better tests to confirm it? Can't they take samples from food and water sources? Sorry for being ignorant to it, I just hadn't heard of it previously.
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Not sure where you read that, as far as I know it's only spread through possums. When they pee on stuff they shouldn't. I'll have to go do some more googling!

And thank youxx
 
Michen said:
Not sure where you read that, as far as I know it's only spread through possums. When they pee on stuff they shouldn't. I'll have to go do some more googling!

And thank youxx
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Yes sorry, I read that it was food and water contaminated by possums! I just cannot believe you are dealing with this all over again. :( Thinking of you and Atlas xx
 
If you Google
epm in horses do antibiotics help

There's a couple of good articles about parasites etc and how a course does/has helped.

Personally I'd get a strong course down him it certinally cant hurt
Has he had any poo samples done?
 
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Equi said:
Im sure the vets who have dealt with it before would give antibiotics if they thought it was helpful. Let’s not google consult.
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It's actually from reading several studies of the condition the original one was carried out on a lot of horses. Some of the more scientific studies are actually really interesting, and as I said to m barring what's she posted about it's not something I know much about.
It wasn't a case of googling something and seeing the first suggestion and then suggesting it 🙄

In this case m is distraught and needs support. She can of course go and discuss anything with her vets.
But let's face it when it's life or death human or animal trying everything possible is not a lost cause especially something fairly in expensive.

Equally vets don't get it right all the time and some follow what's been taught without taking blinkers off.

M that is not a pop at your vets atall I've been on the recieving end of vets mis diagnosis and vets that were demanding my insurance details and arranging scans of tendons whilst I'm stood going erm but there's no heating or swelling in his leg ??
 
Its just shit.

If the meds have a week to 10 days to show improvement then that would be my line, if no improvement and the vets are still stumped either decide to imvestigate more or just call it a day.
 
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