Boggle- USA bound!

ycbm

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F***. The epm is negative. That leaves a possibility of a false negative, so I need to decide whether to continue to treat and test again in a week or two.

Wish I had more grace than this but I guess I’ve gone from shock to sadness to anger. I want to scream and scream and scream. The rage bubbling in me is unbelievable.

To think I called Atlas that because it means strength and enduring.

Sorry… know it’s ridiculous and there are worse things. But I’m all out of both of the above at this point.

Please ignore this if suggestions aren't going to help, M, but since the test has come back negative I thought I should just mention that my instant reaction to your video of him was that he looked just like a horse with a broken pelvis.

Your rage is completely understandable.

I'm so sorry this is going on, you deserved better.
.
 

Equi

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It’s frustrating you don’t have an answer. I think for your peace of mind it’ll be best to retest after you have run out of the treatment. But if neg again, i would consider that a win. I’d also want an xray at this stage, to rule out injury.

Anger is entirely understandable at this point. It will be bringing your grieving cycle right back around.
 

I'm Dun

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Please ignore this if suggestions aren't going to help, M, but since the test has come back negative I thought I should just mention that my instant reaction to your video of him was that he looked just like a horse with a broken pelvis.

Your rage is completely understandable.

I'm so sorry this is going on, you deserved better.
.

Having seen one and been very surprised how mobile they can still be, its something that might be worth investigating.

Theres no shame in calling time now, but if answers will help then look for them. If there was no possibility of EPM what would your vet suspect? What can be looked at and ruled in or out quickly with minimal stress, money and invasiveness?
 

Trouper

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I totally get why you are screaming at the world but for Atlas' sake please keep battling on for a bit longer. I would want another EPM test (if the meds have not compromised this? I don't know anything about that). If you have started them, do you have to continue them (like antibiotics) or can you stop and start?

The other interesting thought, as @SEL suggested, is something caused by the change of environment. My horse came out with a weird skin condition just moving counties in the UK and I found the guys at Trinity Consultants incredibly helpful in explaining how the different organisms they meet in new areas affects them. Might be worth contacting them?? (44-1243-551766 info@trinity-consultants.com). If they haven't read Boggle's thread they might find it a professionally interesting read!!

Fingers crossed for some sort of progress soon - either way - as we do understand how totally life-draining this must be.
 

Slightlyconfused

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F***. The epm is negative. That leaves a possibility of a false negative, so I need to decide whether to continue to treat and test again in a week or two.

Wish I had more grace than this but I guess I’ve gone from shock to sadness to anger. I want to scream and scream and scream. The rage bubbling in me is unbelievable.

To think I called Atlas that because it means strength and enduring.

Sorry… know it’s ridiculous and there are worse things. But I’m all out of both of the above at this point.


I would continue to treat and test again, you have the meds there and it covers the possiblity if a false negative.

Then ask the vets what one of the other posters suggested.

If they had no idea of epm, what would they look at?

Did he have a full blood work done along with liver and kidneys?

Was there a physical exam and did it show up any pain anywhere else? Maybe it is something strutural that has happened and is causing neuro like behaviour.
 

IrishMilo

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Sorry no answers or suggestions but I just want to say how sorry I am. It’s a bizarre and random series of events. Hope you are looking after yourself and I really hope Atlas makes a miraculous recovery, I think he’s super.
 

ycbm

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M, please do what is right for you. You are the most important thing in this situation. There is no welfare issue in a horse being humanely PTS. If you can take the stress and cost of continuing to fight for Atlas, and want to, then do it. If you can't, or don't, you shouldn't feel remotely guilty in ending the stress for you both.

The forum's feelings don't count here, only yours do. Please do what's right for you, you've already been through what would have broken many people.
.
 

Amymay Again

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M, please do what is right for you. You are the most important thing in this situation. There is no welfare issue in a horse being humanely PTS. If you can take the stress and cost of continuing to fight for Atlas, and want to, then do it. If you can't, or don't, you shouldn't feel remotely guilty in ending the stress for you both.

The forum's feelings don't count here, only yours do. Please do what's right for you, you've already been through what would have broken many people.
.
100% agree.
 

Michen

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Thank you everyone and particularly ycbm I appreciate that because I do feel.. embarrassed to tell you all what’s happened, but I know you guys will support any decisions either way. It’s easy to get caught up because I know you think a lot of Atlas, as do I, so I’m trying to balance a few things. First up and most importantly is what’s fair to ask of the horse as really this is happening to him and not me, so I’ve been talking to the barn owner about this who’s very pragmatic. She seems to think he’s pretty cheerful and whatnot, being cheeky etc so that’s good. Maybe he seemed sad to me because whenever he sees me I’m syringing stuff into his mouth which he hates.

Secondly is what can I live with, because I have to work out what’s going to be worse- feeling like I’ve euthanized him without trying or continuing down this path where I know too well the likely outcome. And it’s traumatic, I am quite literally re tracing the steps I took with Boggle. I spent hours last night reading all the same stuff online that I’d read before. I’d have rather ANYTHING else to deal with. Colic, tendon, broken leg, anything. I feel like I’m coping with this reasonably in this moment despite the wildly varying emotions but that’s mostly because I’m not really allowing myself to feel it other than for short stints where I break for a minute. But I’m also applying a good British dose of “keep calm and carry on” which I think my American amigos are finding rather odd haha. Whether that’s healthy or not I don’t know but whatever, it’s functional.

Thirdly is cost. I spent what I spent on Boggle because he was my best mate, my horse of a lifetime, my absolute partner. I did it without pause or consideration and I don’t regret it whatsoever. The benefit I have this time is not having to get myself in a load of debt for any of it, as last time it was really pretty scary the amounts I had to finance. But being able to spend the money doesn’t mean you should! I don’t want to get carried away pouring money into a horse that is unlikely to have a good outcome so I’m trying to apply a little head over heart here. I have a cap in my head and it’s 5 figures which I already think is.. a lot for a horse I’ve owned a few months. Of course I’m a total idiot for not insuring him, but I said to myself if anything went seriously wrong I would not treat because this was just a cheap project pony. With insurance being over $1,000 a year it just seemed pointless when I was already ruling out things like colic surgery. I reckoned that self insuring was better with a tough little Morgan horse- ha. How wrong was I. But then it happens and of course everything changes and I look at his damn face and basically hand over a credit card. I was joking with the barn owner whilst we were waiting for the vet that he had a 2k max limit (the initial bill already nears that for all the tests etc!) and of course Atlas kept shoving his nostrils into my cheek like he does and blowing gently, so we were laughing about every time he did that being another few hundred bucks. He did it a lot, clever boy!

So with all that in mind and having taken a minute to pause (actually, I took an hour sitting on a bench with my arms wrapped around my body in the car rental center of Oklahoma City- don’t ever go there it’s a god awful place with absolutely no redeeming qualities 🤣) after the EPM results I have a plan of sorts and it’s pretty much to do nothing until early next week unless something changes in his condition. I won’t bore you guys with the various reasons why but I’m comfortable with that but it ticks all the things to consider above.

Hopefully my little Bog pony is going to send some luck our way from up there, and I guess in the meantime I’ll just assume this is all part of the crazy way the universe works and there’s reason behind it… right?

You guys are the best and once again I am very very very grateful that you aren’t totally sick of me by now because you’d have every right to put me on user ignore for being such a boring broken record.
 

FestiveFuzz

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M I’ve been there and spent silly amounts on Pops so I do totally get it, especially when it’s a youngster as it feels such a waste not to at least give them a shot at recovery.

It was even worse with my ginger boy as I’d owned him from a foal. Our specialist at Rossdales still thinks I’m nuts for spending as much as I have over the years on him, when his prognosis was so bleak but something deep down told me to keep going. Admittedly I’ve not tested his soundness, but he’s been backed without issue and I’m sorely tempted to see what’s what with him once my broodmare duties are over. Something I never thought I’d be able to consider when he was first diagnosed nearly 5yrs ago now.
 

Slightlyconfused

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Thank you everyone and particularly ycbm I appreciate that because I do feel.. embarrassed to tell you all what’s happened, but I know you guys will support any decisions either way. It’s easy to get caught up because I know you think a lot of Atlas, as do I, so I’m trying to balance a few things. First up and most importantly is what’s fair to ask of the horse as really this is happening to him and not me, so I’ve been talking to the barn owner about this who’s very pragmatic. She seems to think he’s pretty cheerful and whatnot, being cheeky etc so that’s good. Maybe he seemed sad to me because whenever he sees me I’m syringing stuff into his mouth which he hates.

Secondly is what can I live with, because I have to work out what’s going to be worse- feeling like I’ve euthanized him without trying or continuing down this path where I know too well the likely outcome. And it’s traumatic, I am quite literally re tracing the steps I took with Boggle. I spent hours last night reading all the same stuff online that I’d read before. I’d have rather ANYTHING else to deal with. Colic, tendon, broken leg, anything. I feel like I’m coping with this reasonably in this moment despite the wildly varying emotions but that’s mostly because I’m not really allowing myself to feel it other than for short stints where I break for a minute. But I’m also applying a good British dose of “keep calm and carry on” which I think my American amigos are finding rather odd haha. Whether that’s healthy or not I don’t know but whatever, it’s functional.

Thirdly is cost. I spent what I spent on Boggle because he was my best mate, my horse of a lifetime, my absolute partner. I did it without pause or consideration and I don’t regret it whatsoever. The benefit I have this time is not having to get myself in a load of debt for any of it, as last time it was really pretty scary the amounts I had to finance. But being able to spend the money doesn’t mean you should! I don’t want to get carried away pouring money into a horse that is unlikely to have a good outcome so I’m trying to apply a little head over heart here. I have a cap in my head and it’s 5 figures which I already think is.. a lot for a horse I’ve owned a few months. Of course I’m a total idiot for not insuring him, but I said to myself if anything went seriously wrong I would not treat because this was just a cheap project pony. With insurance being over $1,000 a year it just seemed pointless when I was already ruling out things like colic surgery. I reckoned that self insuring was better with a tough little Morgan horse- ha. How wrong was I. But then it happens and of course everything changes and I look at his damn face and basically hand over a credit card. I was joking with the barn owner whilst we were waiting for the vet that he had a 2k max limit (the initial bill already nears that for all the tests etc!) and of course Atlas kept shoving his nostrils into my cheek like he does and blowing gently, so we were laughing about every time he did that being another few hundred bucks. He did it a lot, clever boy!

So with all that in mind and having taken a minute to pause (actually, I took an hour sitting on a bench with my arms wrapped around my body in the car rental center of Oklahoma City- don’t ever go there it’s a god awful place with absolutely no redeeming qualities 🤣) after the EPM results I have a plan of sorts and it’s pretty much to do nothing until early next week unless something changes in his condition. I won’t bore you guys with the various reasons why but I’m comfortable with that but it ticks all the things to consider above.

Hopefully my little Bog pony is going to send some luck our way from up there, and I guess in the meantime I’ll just assume this is all part of the crazy way the universe works and there’s reason behind it… right?

You guys are the best and once again I am very very very grateful that you aren’t totally sick of me by now because you’d have every right to put me on user ignore for being such a boring broken record.


Never sick of you.

Think your plan is perfect and something I would do.

Our british ways of dealing with things, while I think is sometimes unhealthy, but its also useful.

Dont forget the quietly screaming into a pillow
 

misst

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The wait and see plan is good. Atlas is safe and sounds comfortable which is great. Doing nothing until things become clear is probably your best course of action though our instincts often make us feel we should be doing/fixing things. Have some headspace and time for yourself x sorry it's so sh1te.x
 

meleeka

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I wanted to suggest, if in doubt do nothing, but didn't want it to sound insensitive. I do think that we know what to do eventually and sometimes it takes a while for the right thing to show itself. Obviously that's irrelevant if the horse is suffering, but it doesn't sound like that's the case here. You know from what happened before that you are able make difficult decisions if/when needed, so just follow your gut.
 

Widgeon

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Wait and see is a good course of action. Big hugs as always ❤️

Re: Oklahoma city. That bridge thing is creepy 😳

Agree with all of that. Wait and see is often sensible if they're not suffering (which he doesn't seem to be). And heading off on holiday and leaving Atlas in good hands sounds like a solid plan all round. I hope you can relax a bit and enjoy the skiing. In my humble and irrelevant opinion you're making really sensible decisions!

That bridge.....it looks like a massive origami mosquito. Ugh.
 

Red-1

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I drew a limit for Rigsby when he had colic. He wasn't going to have an operation and I said no hospitalisation because there was nothing that I would fund there that couldn't be done at home. I set a three day, £2.5K limit. Not that he had to be exactly better at that, just that he had to be well on the way with a good outcome.

It was a terrible time, but I was resolute with what I would put into him. Of course, he wasn't insured as he'd so much historical maladies before I bought him, practically nothing would have been insured.

Of course, it was easier for me as he was al old man with historical issues, but it still hurt.

A 5 figure ceiling sounds sensible.

I'm another for watchful waiting, if he isn't in pain. My Jay-Man had wobblers. He improved after a course of steroids, but had 2 years of retirement that were then just watchful waiting. I didn't fund MRIs or anything. Just X rays and steroids initially. I set my limit and stuck to them. In the end, the waiting was over as he deteriorated and that was that, but his ataxia didn't seem to cause him pain and he seemed well and playful in himself. Just un-co-ordinated.

Leaving Atlas with the barn owner sounds like a good plan for now. Go spend some time with the boy/man. Goodness, if he is sticking through this while you are at your worst, he must be a keeper!!!
 

JGC

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I've just seen the posts since Sunday, I am so, so sorry.

I think there is nothing wrong with taking time away if necessary. They are emotional sponges and sometimes our feelings aren't helpful for them
 

ElleSkywalker

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Positive for lymes. I have limited battery and up a ski slope, if anyone wants to do some research that would be great lol. I think if it makes a heise neuro it’s pretty much game over.

When I lived in the states (New York State) we had a couple of horses who had previously tested positive for lymes. One in particular I remember as I used to ride him all the time and he was very much a normal horse, so had recovered almost entirely. He was a hunter so was in fairly hard work.
 

druid

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Positive for lymes. I have limited battery and up a ski slope, if anyone wants to do some research that would be great lol. I think if it makes a heise neuro it’s pretty much game over.

Lyme with neuro symptoms is a poor prognosis unfortunately but we always gave them 14 days of Doxy orally or tetracycline IV (plus steroids in neuro cases, even though it's contraindicated in "simple" lyme infections) to see if we saw improvement. If they improved then they were very likely to respond well and recover
 

Clodagh

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Positive for lymes. I have limited battery and up a ski slope, if anyone wants to do some research that would be great lol. I think if it makes a heise neuro it’s pretty much game over.
Very briefly I can see it has a good outcome. Can cause neuro symptoms. Not always .
Maybe better knowing it’s something.
Hugs to you.
Edited as Druids knowledge replaced my brief Google.
 
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