Boots, tops, garter straps, spurs, spur staps

[posie_honey]

I take your points, but why does any of that effect the correct protocol of wearing blunt (snub nosed) spurs as part of one's correct dress when hunting?

you understand entirely what my point is - you are intelligent enough for that
i'm a little dissapointed at your response tbh - i expected more of you that that

 

[combat_claire]

Clearly the above two posters have a point and the detail may be, that from time to time, there is a relaxing of protocol in certain circumstances.

However we are dealing with hunting and it is essential that the ambience in it's entirety is maintained.

What is clear, that after twelve years of Labour Rule many elements of society have been brain washed into believing and or thinking that 'lowering the tone' is acceptable, it is part of Labour's second rate parocialism.

Indeed there are those in these matters, who like to make a 'personal statement' by not conforming to the accepted protocols. But as I say they have been brainwashed by twelve years of Labour Rule whose misguided totemistic banning of hunting, results in one simply re-educating and showing the right way things should be done.

With respect Judgemental I think you are completely missing the point.

Firstly hunting dress has always evolved and adapted, there is no reason at all why this shouldn't continue to happen in the 21st Century. The cut and technology of hunt coats has altered over generations, for example our hunt masters now have goretex linings in hunt coats for better comfort on the hunting field. I have a copy of The Chase by Michael Clayton when he devotes a whole chapter to hunting dress and disapproval of approved headgear and synthetic fabric breeches, yet these are now common sights on the hunting field. Practicality and comfort will always come first, hence the wearing of modern waterproofs on wet days autumn hunting on Exmoor. Any fool can be wet and uncomfortable.

To illustrate this point of modern practicality, I am a uniformed whipper-in for the local minkhounds, traditionally I should wear a loose weave blue skirt, with white shirt, red tie, blue waistcoat, blue hunt coat and a straw boater. However this is no longer the 19th century and for practicality and cost all whippers-in, whether male or female wear moleskin breeks with a blue shirt (easier to keep clean!), a waistcoat rather than a hunt coat 9too hot to run in thick hunt coat in July), red tie, blue cap or straw hat and on hunting days red waterproof gaiters over our stockings.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=174466&l=634fd193cc&id=278500003

We won the best turned out award in 2009 so we can't be getting things too wrong!

Hunting is in a great shape despite being subjected to the tyranny of Urban rule and that is because hunts have welcomed new members. If that means welcoming someone who is doing their best to adhere to the dress code either by wearing ratcatcher or a show jacket then so be it. If they then decide to take up the sport then they can justify gradually investing in the right kit. Quite frankly there is little point of rigidly enforcing dress codes to the extent that new members are scared off and we are left with half a dozen correctly dressed stalwarts, who refused to accept that anyone could possibly mount their hunter with a slightly different cut of boot.

I am not advocating a total removal of dress codes or standards of turn out, to the extent that everyone wears fleeces and garish jodhpurs with half chaps, but a degree of adaptability and flexibility is crucial if hunting is to survive the new challenges it faces.

 

[EAST KENT]

EK you can't just leave now!

No No I have`nt! You are right!John Funnell was master and huntsman to the Tickham,which I subscribed to back then.Think I got it a bit wrong,the little lad may only have been seven or so. His proper show jumping stuff started a bit later,his Mum and Dad had by then split,I seem to recall Cyril Light took him on..could be wrong there.
John Funnell was fun as a huntsman..not much hanging about with him,later on the Tickham changed and a new leaf meant changing the pack,a lot got culled;things did`nt improve because of it and there was a lot of standing about in wet woods as I recall. In fact by near the end of one season we got so bored we loaded up and went for a day with the East Kent...for once our horses were done in by the end of the day.

That was when Richard Blakeney was still first whip,so it is a while back.

 

[Judgemental]

you understand entirely what my point is - you are intelligent enough for that
i'm a little dissapointed at your response tbh - i expected more of you that that

Because the subject is: Re: Boots, tops, garter straps, spurs, spur staps and you have elected to discuss wider issues, mainly dealing with the totemic views of those who do not have the same kindred spirit as oursleves. All of which is somewhat emotive so far as the 'otherside' are concerned.

Whereas, the issue of wearing spurs on one's hunting boots is a fact and/or correct protocol.

 

[Judgemental]

With respect Judgemental I think you are completely missing the point.

I have a copy of The Chase by Michael Clayton when he devotes a whole chapter to hunting dress and disapproval of approved headgear and synthetic fabric breeches, yet these are now common sights on the hunting field.

and I believe Michael mentions spurs and boots does he not?

Perhaps you would care to quote?

 

[posie_honey]

the issue of wearing spurs on one's hunting boots is a fact and/or correct protocol.

as lovely as correct attire is - in this day and age due to many factors - it is not as important as it once was - that is the only solid fact i can see here

 

[outandabout]

Clearly the above two posters have a point and the detail may be, that from time to time, there is a relaxing of protocol in certain circumstances.

However we are dealing with hunting and it is essential that the ambience in it's entirety is maintained.

What is clear, that after twelve years of Labour Rule many elements of society have been brain washed into believing and or thinking that 'lowering the tone' is acceptable, it is part of Labour's second rate parocialism.

Indeed there are those in these matters, who like to make a 'personal statement' by not conforming to the accepted protocols. But as I say they have been brainwashed by twelve years of Labour Rule whose misguided totemistic banning of hunting, results in one simply re-educating and showing the right way things should be done.

But it's not an occasional relaxing of protocol - it is protocol. For example, If my OH turned up to work in his full dress tunic and whistle (unless he was off to court or some other similar engagement which requires a tunic) he would be sent home to put on his body armour and his fleece. He loves the full dress uniform and thinks they are beautifully made and much more stylish, but the dress code has changed on grounds of practicality and safety in the modern age!

So is your message that I shouldn't bother going hunting because I don't have a hunt coat, only a tweed, wear a 'showjumper' style helmet, don't have boots with garter straps, don't use spurs and my horse has a synthetic saddle? Maybe if I (and the horse!) enjoy hunting I will acquire correct kit over time - I simply can't afford to go out and invest in a load of clothes and equipment that I may not use. I am a true hunting newbie and have been really interested in some of your posts and advice, but it is rather galling to be told that I will be essentially 'lowering the tone' if I go out !

 

[posie_honey]

I am a true hunting newbie and have been really interested in some of your posts and advice, but it is rather galling to be told that I will be essentially 'lowering the tone' if I go out !

don't worry - i bet the majority of subscribers of most hunts would be lowering the tone in judgemental's eyes - whats another one to add to the general awfulness of standards eh?
go forth and enjoy a day i'm sure noone will a) notice or b) care if you are not 100% correct

 

[combat_claire]

and I believe Michael mentions spurs and boots does he not?

Perhaps you would care to quote?

I'm sure he does, but I'm not at home to get the book off the shelf and check. He also advocates hunting toppers, made to measure hunt coats and Bedford cord breeches, which clearly reflects my point that times have changed and so too have acceptable dress codes.

As photos of our pack when it was still hunting otter show, I most certainly won't be turning out in a skirt next season as it will make gates impossible and barbed wire fences painful!

Your attitude is only going to kill the sport you profess to love, because we rely on new blood being tempted to try the sport. In this day and age the first thing people do is look on the internet for hints and tips, quite frankly if they see some of the posts from the likes of yourself on this forum they'd be put off for life.

I will reiterate once again that I love the correct turnout for hunting,and wouldn't condone wearing fleeces and purple jods but minor pedantic details relating to the cut of boots and wearing of spurs whether needed or not are archaic ideas that should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

For those newbies reading this thread and quaking with dread at the thought of meeting a hunting stalwart who will look down their noses at them for a minor infringement of what they believe to be correct dress then fear not. The Hunt secretary or master will advise on what to wear so that you can look smart, blend in with the field and not spend thousands of pounds on kit you might never wear again if you hate the activity!

A case in point is that a group from our hunt went to try polo last summer - we rode onto their hallowed turf in jockey skulls, mismatched polo shirts, breeches, hunting boots and with borrowed polo mallets. There was no need for us to dash out and invest in patey polo helmets, leather knee guards, brown boots and team shirts!

 

[combat_claire]

don't worry - i bet the majority of subscribers of most hunts would be lowering the tone in judgemental's eyes - whats another one to add to the general awfulness of standards eh?
go forth and enjoy a day i'm sure noone will a) notice or b) care if you are not 100% correct

Huzzah to that!

 

[posie_honey]

Huzzah to that!

 

[Simsar]

CC stunning.

EK was thinking of J Funnell as Huntsman of Surrey U. xx

 

[cptrayes]

Is it not true that "correct" hunting dress was originally designed to distinguish the landed gentry who were out hunting from their tenant farmers who were also in the field? Cream breeches were certainly designed to show who had a groom to get the horse ready for them and who had a valet to get the breeches clean again. Farmers rode in their working clothes, not being able to afford a set and hand made long boots just for hunting, or have the facilities to care for impractical clothes. Mrs Horace Hayes wrote a couple of hundred years ago that an essential piece of equipment for hunting in England is a good raincoat.

I can hardly believe in this day and age that anyone left alive gives a bug ger whether someone whose horse does not need spurs to encourage it to jump is wearing any!

 

[posie_honey]

I can hardly believe in this day and age that anyone left alive gives a bug ger whether someone whose horse does not need spurs to encourage it to jump is wearing any!

oh but apparently there is - they are alive and very much kicking on H&H....

 

[combat_claire]

CC stunning.

Are you still harping on about my underwear ;-) lol

 

[Judgemental]

I give up - the line drawn in the sand is never going to be observed.

Therefore I suggest everybody simply wears boots and little else - especially in the light of the above post!


I am not stupid that's really what folk are after, to do a Lady Godiva if they get half a chance.

That is my last post on this subject.

 

[Spudlet]

I give up - the line drawn in the sand is never going to be observed.

Therefore I suggest everybody simply wears boots and little else - especially in the light of the above post!


I am not stupid that's really what folk are after, to do a Lady Godiva if they get half a chance.

That is my last post on this subject.

**Forsees dramatic rise in serious chafing injuries**

 

[Judgemental]

**Forsees dramatic rise in serious chafing injuries**

The above was intended to be my last post, however I think Spudlet a Thread entitled Embrocation might now be appropriate. That should lower the tone no end.

 

[spacefaer]

I give up - the line drawn in the sand is never going to be observed.

Therefore I suggest everybody simply wears boots and little else - especially in the light of the above post!


I am not stupid that's really what folk are after, to do a Lady Godiva if they get half a chance.

That is my last post on this subject.

Do you promise??

 

[EAST KENT]

CC stunning.

EK was thinking of J Funnell as Huntsman of Surrey U. xx

No,No ..long before that he was Master and Huntsman of the Tickham.The family came from Challock and farmed there,long before John branched out.Brother David does horse cremations near Bethersden ,and John is more midlands area now.
Promise that`s right ..as I hunted those seasons with the Tickham.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

The above was intended to be my last post, however I think Spudlet a Thread entitled Embrocation might now be appropriate. That should lower the tone no end.

Please stick to your original idea!

 

[Simsar]

No,No ..long before that he was Master and Huntsman of the Tickham.The family came from Challock and farmed there,long before John branched out.Brother David does horse cremations near Bethersden ,and John is more midlands area now.
Promise that`s right ..as I hunted those seasons with the Tickham.

I know your right but I only remember JF as Huntsman with SU. Bethersden in kent yes they make Rosking horses there don't they? My mates sister has a hop farm there too.

John is Claydon now the horse walker company.

 

[Simsar]

Are you still harping on about my underwear ;-) lol

No the turnout picture.

 

[combat_claire]

No the turnout picture.

Most of my pack asked if there had been some mistake as the day before to keep our best kit clean we'd been hunting in jeans, checked shirts and old straw hats with couples hanging off belts and hound paw prints everywhere. Honestly it was enough to give the traditionalists like Judgemental a heart attack!

 

[Simsar]

Few years ago! Sht no gloves! Sorry if photo is huge.

 

[combat_claire]

Very nice

 

[Simsar]

Thank you CC. x

 

[Herne]

His Grace provided many opinions and one would be interested to know where you could direct one to the authority concerning spurs, either quoting his grace, or more importantly and ideally the wisdom quoted in his own hand?

Foxhunting by 10th Duke of Beaufort.

Page 200, para 2:

On the question of spurs, a lot of people think they are a necessary part of hunting wear, but it all depends on how they are to be used and also on the horse you are riding. So do not let yourself be influenced too much by others, do what you yourself think is right

Page 202, para 8:

A pair of spurs if you think them necessary. Do not be driven by convention to wear them if you do not feel your horse needs them or, indeed, if you think you would be safer without.

If you want an older authority, try K. W. Horlock ("Scrutator"), wrinting in 1868.

The Science of Foxhunting and kennel Management, Page 186, para 1

Having ridden for the greater part of our hunting career without spurs, we have come to the conclusion that they are not necessaries, although they may be used as auxiliaries.

 

[Judgemental]

Hello Herne, never seen you post hitherto. Nevertheless, your various posts today are like a breath of fresh air on this forum.

Various and sundry have a habit of undue use of the whip when I trot out protocol, procedure and etiquette.

 

[CuriousGeorge]

QR -

I think it is far easier [or should be] for the U18 followers as ratcatcher, beige / cream breeches, and short boots or short boots and gaiters as it leaves far less to go wrong with. Pony club tie is a must if you are a pony club member imho - it gives the field an idea of who to turn to for gates, to pick up dropped whips, hip flasks, and also the secretary's job [imho] is made a lot easier with regards to cap and keeping an eye!

I always hunted in ratcatcher, and after leaving pc wore a conservative checked stock. I will admit to having long boots at 14 - but surgery on my foot meant i needed something a bit more substantial with regards to protection and warmth [short boots offer next to nothing]. I was always available for gates, and any other uses, until I got my 16.3 ex masters horse and the master fully appreciated getting off wasn't really an option!

I was horrified out cubbing [sorry, Autumn Hunting] to see pony clubbers wearing stocks - wrong on so many levels imho. We also had overtaking the master, badgering away loudly to each other along covertside, being blissfully unaware that huntsman was struggling with a gate into a pen to draw, and not saying goodnight at the end of the day. I also had to get a childs pony ready for an opening meet [which would have been classed as a lawn meet too] and was told 'oh don't worry about plaiting' - I plaited said pony.

I have to say I am a bit hot on turnout, but mainly in a clean, respectful way, rather than totally traditional. I hunt in a crash cap because my head is of quite a high value to me, tweed, a conservative stock, beige breeches, and now brown boots [I have been told brown are more correct for ratcatcher than black, but I still have black ones just incase]. My horse is always plaited, and in a plain double bridle, breastplate, and dark numnah. I did my hunting test pre-ban and read the new post-ban test and it seems to lack a lot of the traditional things we learnt.

I think the hunting test is a bit mixed up really - you cannot hunt on your own until you are 14 without it, the rec age is 11 [I did mine at 10 iir], but children can hunt prior to this, and if their parents aren't advising them of correct turnout, how can we expect new comers or the next generation to be correctly turned out?