Bought unseen problems returning

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FieldOrnaments said:
Sorry I know I might be overreacting I just really really don't want someone's blood on my hands for some comments on a horse forum?? And let's face it loads of people have made mistakes buying horses but that doesn't mean needing to do anything irreversible????
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Of course it doesn't. And in fairness I think much of this thread has been trying to encourage the OP that this horse purchase does not have to be a total disaster, even before some more positive bits about his history were found, and that there are many options for ways forwards. Including slowing things down/taking pressure off before making big decisions about what to do with the horse.
 
wills_91 said:
Tbh it reads to me like OP is greatful for all the advice and support that has been offered but when you are in the midst of crisis - which I genuinely believe she is - even that itself can seem overwhelming. Which those of us who have been there should understand.
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I really hope she makes some friends from this if nothing else tbh. There are posts all over fb, here so genuinely hope the many offers of help will come through. Stick by what I'm saying it seems the yard are not helping Jasmine which will be making her feel like shit too. We are well meaning a good few genuine but to Jasmine just random made up names.

Would have thought myself it was a wind up if hadn't seen something on dodgy dealers post. Rooting for both @Jasmine2023 and ozzy even if its separately x
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Sorry I know I might be overreacting I just really really don't want someone's blood on my hands for some comments on a horse forum?? And let's face it loads of people have made mistakes buying horses but that doesn't mean needing to do anything irreversible????
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They've been online since :)
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Sorry I know I might be overreacting I just really really don't want someone's blood on my hands for some comments on a horse forum?? And let's face it loads of people have made mistakes buying horses but that doesn't mean needing to do anything irreversible????
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Check your messages x
 
FO you are a very caring person and very sensitive. I don't think you need to worry about the OP.
I on the other hand am a far harder nosed and sceptical person.. I think the OP may well have some MH issues but I don't think they are honest and I find it hard to sympathise with people who are so resolutely negative. The horse on the other hand has my complete sympathy. OP PLEASE put this sentient being first for both your sakes.
 
I can't relate to the mental health or physical health side of things, but I will say that even when things are done right the first few weeks of ownership can be tough.

With my old horse I tried him out shortly after having had major surgery on my shoulder. He was an absolute dobbin. The lady selling him jumped him over a little cross pole. She had mainly used him for driving but had backed him and taken him hunting shortly before I tried him.
I had him vetted, all was fine. I had a bit of a wobble before he arrived that he might actually be too calm for me because he was so good when I tried him; I thought may be a novice rider's horse and potentially a bit boring.

Within a few days of his arrival he was a wild child to ride. I remember coming back from a hack, during which he had almost bucked me off a few times and had galloped off with me twice, in floods of tears and threatening to send him back. He wasn't the dobbin I'd tried.
All that had happened was he'd had a major change of routine. He'd gone from living out 24/7 to mainly being in (quarantine period). We were on a busy yard, when before he was kept at home. He got three meals a day, because that's what everyone else had, so he was full of energy and wired.

We saw it through and within a month or so he had settled down. He wasn't the dumbed down dobbin I tried (I think in hindsight he was looking after me) but he was the most wonderful little horse. He was the best horse in the universe as far as I was concerned and I still miss him to this day.

What I'm saying is that as tough as it is now, and I have no doubt it is incredibly tough, if you can just get through this bit he may be the most rewarding little horse and exactly what you wanted.

I just hope you find some support at your yard to help you get the best out of him. I'm lucky enough to stable at a riding school myself, and I'm so grateful for the lessons I had (and for my instructors riding my horse too) to help me connect with Albert in those early days (in fact I kept having those lessons throughout my time with him, but that's because it's something I enjoyed). Good luck to you both.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
The riding school is very small and quiet and the lessons are taken by the owners. There are 2 larger riding stables nearby but this one is nice and quiet.

It is hard to like a horse that pulls faces and pins his ears back whenever he sees you and tries to pin you next to the stable wall when you go in. You can all be as judgemental as you like. I was expecting to be out hacking in the nice weather not in a situation where I am more depressed. I haven't the energy for all this. I hope none of you ever have to feel the way I am right now with no support around me.
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He dosen't know who you are!

Jasmine2023 said:
He seems better out of the stable. But he does scare me in the stable.
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How? What does he do that makes you anxious? What is it you think he is going to do?

Jasmine, I think I have been pretty supportive, however,
I don't think he's been mis sold, I don't think he's a bad horse.
I think you are afraid, of the responsibility of owning a horse, of having to face things which you are afraid of.

Do the things that make you afraid - you'll be buzzing afterwards!! Tiny, tiny steps. Set yourself up to win!
So tomorrow, go up to see your horse and put his headcollar on. Then take it off and go home.
If you have to give him a bit of carrot over the door and then slip the headcollar on, if it takes two hours, then so be it. If you need help then ask some one for it!

I think you should also consider that on this thread there is probably at least 200 combined years of experience, most of whom are giving their opinion that you
have not only bought from a very dubious source, but also bought a little cracker cracker of a cob who will probably come right very soon!
Most people on this forum would be very happy to be able to achive that!

It is entirley possible that you will be hacking out in the beautiful weather within a week... but only if you put in the effort and focus on achieving daily goals.
 
Wow some incredible offers while I’ve been driving to wales, shows how supportive this forum is even to a complete newbie when they are in a bind.

I do find it ironic? (Maybe wrong word) that I guesstimate about half the forum probably have mental health issues and a good proportion of those have been affected how the OP describes and worse yet apparently we don’t know how bad it can get
 
ester said:
Wow some incredible offers while I’ve been driving to wales, shows how supportive this forum is even to a complete newbie when they are in a bind.

I do find it ironic? (Maybe wrong word) that I guesstimate about half the forum probably have mental health issues and a good proportion of those have been affected how the OP describes and worse yet apparently we don’t know how bad it can get
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And at least half of the rest have chronic physical health issues! Even if those issues stem from falling off horses.
 
I wish I hadn't checked in again. I was just telling my daughter earlier how it had a happy ending 😢. Honestly I don't know what to think but I hope the YO realises what's happening here and steps up for the good of the horse (I'm not holding my breath though 😢). I realise people can reach rock bottom and I continue to feel sorry for the OP, but the only victim in all this is poor Ozzy.

And if anyone here knows more than they're letting on publicly, feel free to PM those of us who are worried.
 
ester said:
Wow some incredible offers while I’ve been driving to wales, shows how supportive this forum is even to a complete newbie when they are in a bind.

I do find it ironic? (Maybe wrong word) that I guesstimate about half the forum probably have mental health issues and a good proportion of those have been affected how the OP describes and worse yet apparently we don’t know how bad it can get
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I gave up my horse in 2016 worst experience in my life. But was needed for both me and him. Totally bankrupt, the rest I wont say on this post. Taken years to even think of getting back to horses, sanity 😅 . Best thing I ever did, quickly learned I still knew some stuff, and how amazing horses are. Along with realising I'm getting too fat. So horses make you realise alot and work to be better for them and ourselves.

Was so positive about this thread, Jasmine and Ozzy journey but totally out now. Best of luck to both of them ❤
 
KatieDM said:
Well, my yard has a spare stable and I’m right next to Bradford in Leeds… and I’ve got a trailer, just no towbar on my new car. 🤣
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I’m in Leeds & I’ve got a 3.5 ton box sat doing nowt… (It could probably do with a run as I’ve promised the Fuzzball he won’t ever have to travel in it again ☹️)

It might get there ever so slightly sooner than BB 😂 well if I remember to put some more diesel in it!

(If you were genuinely serious there is a genuine offer there as well as the pee taking)
 
Nancykitt said:
I went back and read the first post on this thread. The OP wanted to return Ozzy and get a refund and wanted advice on how the dealer could be made to comply.
People pointed out that this was very unlikely and that any sort of legal action was likely to be massively stressful (and potentially unsuccessful).

So every way forward that has been suggested isn't what was originally asked for. They've been good suggestions and very pragmatic, but ultimately not what was asked for. Because, however right or wrong it is, people do find themselves in this sort of situation when buying horses. It's then a matter of cutting losses and moving on.

I'm not sure we'll hear from the OP again. We've done our best.
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This is actually the salient point - we have all been focussed on trying to suggest ways to get the best outcome for both Ozzy and OP, however that is not what the OP was asking for at all.

We've all let ourselves get carried away by our own feelings and assumptions and spurred each other on (both for and against) to try and solve the wrong problem.

I do believe the story is genuine, and I do believe they are not a first-time horse owner, and I do believe that there are multiple health issues involved.

The short answer to the original question of "Is there any chance I could take this further and get my money back." is simply "not really".

However, tomorrow is a new day and, perhaps, after a break from this thread, some time to reflect on the (frankly, masses of) suggestions here, and in light of the information on Ozzy's background, further thought may be given to the possibility of keeping Ozzy. Perhaps.
 
@paddy555 your post quoting mine is miles back because I was out yesterday and it seems like everything kicked off while I was away. I can't seem to find it to quote it right now.

I don't disagree with you - as I said, it can be argued both ways. I was putting forward an argument for the OP because, to me, it's clear that she doesn't want this horse, and all she really wants is to challenge the dealer.

If she really doesn't want this horse, then that's how I'd go about it. I think it's a defensible argument that would get the horse returned.

Personally, I'd keep the horse because I think it looks quite sweet. And I agree with you that the core issue is that this person doesn't seem to be experienced enough to buy a horse.

If this poster really wants to return, and is more interested in that then the future of the horse then it's their prerogative. It wouldn't be my personal approach but I can't see that someone who feels that way about the horse will make a good owner for it anyway so I think the poor little cob is going to be in an unloving home if it stays, and is going to be resented.

At least if the poster can return it by presenting a clear argument to the dealer then the drama ceases.
 
LadyGascoyne said:
At least if the poster can return it by presenting a clear argument to the dealer then the drama ceases.
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The dealer will not return her money if she returns the horse. She already has a legal right under the distance selling regulations to return the horse for a full refund without any need to make a case for horse not being as described.

I've already been through a county court case with a dodgy dealer and can assure you that they will not voluntarily return your money and a ccj is not enforceable against the self employed with no assets in their name. In my case the dealer had stolen my deposit and sold the horse to someone else. This is an absolutely standard way that dodgy dealers operate, some have multiple ccj's against them.
 
I don’t think the horse has been misdescribed to the extent that would stand up in court: would suit RDA/ potential mother/daughter share etc are vague and essentially meaningless statements just like ‘would excel in any sphere’ or ‘will go far’. It’s certainly not a clear case of misrepresentation- and it’s hard to go after dealers even when they absolutely lie and you can prove it!

Under distance selling rules the owner is legally entitled to return but as has been said repeatedly: what’s right in law isn’t necessarily what happens in practice and even with a CCJ against him, he may not pay. So it’s a fools errand to try really in my view. But that’s the OP’s prerogative. At least that case would centre on plain unemotional facts: I bought a horse, I changed my mind, I want to return… dealer refused which is unlawful.

But I truly think going after the dealer for misrepresentation would be highly damaging and distressing.

OP, I’m only commenting again
because I hope you might recognise that if a people on a horse forum repelled by dodgy dealing and suspicious of this dealer are generally saying the horse was not misrepresented to a significant degree, and all the described behaviours are explainable in terms of unsettled behaviour following a move, then that case will easily be made in court too. If you can’t even convince HHO then that perspective is fundamentally unpersuasive. And rightly or wrongly, if you pursue it you will be blamed for lack of experience, unrealistic expectations, poor management practices etc etc. Given your vulnerability which has made you sensitive to criticism or perceived criticism on here, with people generally on your side, it will be 1000x worse if you chose to put yourself in that adversarial position against a person whose argument will centre on your ‘failings’ not the horse’s.

Like many others I’m disinclined to comment further because advice on moving forward with Ozzy appears unwelcome and all other questions have been answered:

If the question was ‘how do I get my money back and escape this situation‘, the answer to that is ‘sell the horse’.

If the priority is ‘how do I get the dealer to comply with distance selling regulations’ the blunt answer is you probably can’t. But you are a grown up and welcome to pursue any avenues you wish. No additional advice is likely to be helpful and it appears the thread is actually just fuelling more distress and anger.

I wish you both well.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
It is hard to like a horse that pulls faces and pins his ears back whenever he sees you and tries to pin you next to the stable wall when you go in.
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My daughter's horse was always pulling faces, if you went up to him in the field he would eat the carrot you were offering and then move away, no cuddles for him. He was also rude and bargey in the stable with new people. We lost him last year after 20 years of owning him, and we still miss him so much. He was such a character, and a superstar under saddle. I suspect Ozzy will soon settle and come round, but he sounds a dude in so many ways I think you will have a great horse, but if you feel you aren't going to get on with him please move him on, he deserves it.
 
nutjob said:
The dealer will not return her money if she returns the horse. She already has a legal right under the distance selling regulations to return the horse for a full refund without any need to make a case for horse not being as described.

I've already been through a county court case with a dodgy dealer and can assure you that they will not voluntarily return your money and a ccj is not enforceable against the self employed with no assets in their name. In my case the dealer had stolen my deposit and sold the horse to someone else. This is an absolutely standard way that dodgy dealers operate, some have multiple ccj's against them.
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That is likely true but she doesn't seem to want any other options.
 
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