Bringing into a contact

[Mule]

Ok from what you've said, I think you need to try to combine both.
Legs on and ask him to come round and accept the contact from the off. Let's not start with a giraffe impression, let's begin in a working frame of mind. then try and maintain that without wiggling your fingers. that might mean you just ride 10m without wiggling to start with, and then remind him to accept the contact, and then see if you can do 15 metres. in that time, you should try to maintain an elastic feel on his mouth, and ask him to step towards the contact that you are trying to keep steady, you can use your circles and spirals to help (and shoulder in etc!). if he giraffes or is rude, a quick reminder, and then back to steady. hopefully he will come to understand that it's comfortable to have a steady contact, and as you continue to supple and work his body, he will find it easier to stay round and in the contact consistently.

so you keep in mind your goal, which is to be able to ride with a steady contact with the horse understanding and able to accept your aids from leg to hand, and you work towards it. does that make sense? it's very difficult when different instructors tell you different things. but that's what I would be aiming for, and that's what I do with mine when they have to learn for the first time.

So I should lessen the frequency of wiggling with the aim of weaning him off it?

 

[milliepops]

So I should lessen the frequency of wiggling with the aim of weaning him off it?

that's what I would be aiming for, yes.
use the rein briefly if he's above the bit or not concentrating etc. (don't be afraid to use the rein, they are there to be used, but just not constantly wiggling them) and then try and aim for a steady inviting contact in between times. it might feel like you're not *doing* enough if you're used to wiggling quite a bit. but the proof is in the pudding - if he starts to just go sweetly in the rein and you can introduce your other exercises etc without him hollowing or pulling the reins through your fingers then you're doing it right

 

[Mule]

that's what I would be aiming for, yes.
use the rein briefly if he's above the bit or not concentrating etc. (don't be afraid to use the rein, they are there to be used, but just not constantly wiggling them) and then try and aim for a steady inviting contact in between times. it might feel like you're not *doing* enough if you're used to wiggling quite a bit. but the proof is in the pudding - if he starts to just go sweetly in the rein and you can introduce your other exercises etc without him hollowing or pulling the reins through your fingers then you're doing it right

Excellent, I'll try that, thank you

 

[Jenni_]

I'm with Tristar - the horse needs to be forward, straight, and relaxed before you think about the contact. A good contact should follow when all of these things are present, and any inconsistencies in the contact will be because the horse is no longer (either or all of) forward, straight, or relaxed.

Quite an apt thread- I spent the whole of my lesson this morning re-addressing this as a foundation as I've gotten a bit stuck contact wise with mine!

Spiralling in and out using inside and counter bend whilst maintain a quiet and relaxed rhythm is a great starter exercise for getting the horse to unlock and come into the contact.

 

[milliepops]

i think the *what comes first* depends on what your horse already knows, rightly or wrongly, and what his or her natural tendencies are.
i could be trying to ride my horse forward straight and relaxed for another 10 years before she would actually go on the bit off her own back i believe that you have to provide a contact in order to receive one

many roads to rome but also lots of different romes!

 

[paddi22]

I found it really useful at the start to have a dressage teacher look at me but not give me guidance. if I lost the contact or the horse giraffed its head I'd try to guess what had happened (eg I think my contact went loopy, the horse wasn't forward enough, it was pulling forward to evade, I hadn't released to reward etc) and then instructor would explain what had happened and what to do to fix it. It's just trying to get a feel in your head for 'why is this happening' and 'how do I respond'

 

[milliepops]

I found it really useful at the start to have a dressage teacher look at me but not give me guidance. if I lost the contact or the horse giraffed its head I'd try to guess what had happened (eg I think my contact went loopy, the horse wasn't forward enough, it was pulling forward to evade, I hadn't released to reward etc) and then instructor would explain what had happened and what to do to fix it. It's just trying to get a feel in your head for 'why is this happening' and 'how do I respond'

that's such a great way to do it.

 

[BBP]

My osteopath describes contact to me as holding a child’s hand whilst walking/running. Now, I don’t have or touch children but I kind of got it. You don’t grab their hand and squeeze it super tight, so you don’t grip your rein with a death grip. You don’t have too loose a grip on their hand either, or they will pull out of your hand and run off, so you don’t hold your rein with a loose hand either. You don’t walk with your arm absolutely rigid, trying to pull child back or guide them just with your fingers or wrist, your arm moves with theirs, your shoulder and elbow are soft to allow a flexible contact, same when you hold your reins. You don’t allow the child to pull you down to floor level but nor do you try to lift them up with a strong bicep to sort of drag them up higher than they can comfortably be. It’s all about using that hand hold to communicate what you want, allowing more movement if you want, or soft restraint if you need. And keeping that through your transitions with the horse, or crossing the road with the child, not dropping them or letting them run away, and not giving them anything rigid to fight.

Kind of made sense in my mind anyway. I use the idea even for lunging and long reining now.

 

[tristar]

nobody is saying there should be no contact, the subject is where the horse is carrying its head and why

 

[BBP]

Mule was asking about contact, I didn’t realise we were only allowed to refer to the original post. I’ll jog on out of the competing and training forum.

 

[milliepops]

Mule was asking about contact, I didn’t realise we were only allowed to refer to the original post. I’ll jog on out of the competing and training forum.

no please stay, it was a very valid point and useful description. i've used the hand holding analogy before so it makes sense to me.

 

[palo1]

I'm with Tristar - the horse needs to be forward, straight, and relaxed before you think about the contact. A good contact should follow when all of these things are present, and any inconsistencies in the contact will be because the horse is no longer (either or all of) forward, straight, or relaxed.

Quite an apt thread- I spent the whole of my lesson this morning re-addressing this as a foundation as I've gotten a bit stuck contact wise with mine!

Spiralling in and out using inside and counter bend whilst maintain a quiet and relaxed rhythm is a great starter exercise for getting the horse to unlock and come into the contact.

I too find this exercise very helpful with a young or somehow resistant horse as it seems to make it easier for the horse to understand the benefit of the contact! When spiralling or bending it is far more 'likely' to me that the hindleg will step under 'better' (we are talking an uneducated for whatever reason sort of horse here - not necessarily one that has been started really well and so on ) which will make it much easier for the rider to ride from the hind quarters to the hand and for the horse to use the hindquarters and thus 'meet' the hand rather than ignoring it or resisting it which is what I have found some horses do - no matter how gently persuasive and sympathetic you might try to be!! When the horse 'finds' that contact (and the feeling is pretty hard to miss I find) you can relax and reward easily or keep it and maintain it for a few more strides. Once the horse has got that bit it is much easier to ask for a contact on a straight line. But that is just how I have found it and there are many ways to find and teach the contact I am sure.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

no please stay, it was a very valid point and useful description. i've used the hand holding analogy before so it makes sense to me.

Agreed, really helpful imagery (I've not heard it before and won't pretend I fully 'get' contact etc but it's so good to have concepts described in different ways as it can all add up to things starting to click into place) - thank you for sharing @BBP

 

[shortstuff99]

I know everyone mentions leaving the front alone, but on the topic of earlier mentions one of my trainers told me that everything in front of you is a lot easier to influence then behind you. While yes you can keep the energy forward etc but you should also be working on the shoulders/ neck/ jaw. Having tension in any of these areas is going to lead to back tension, having a supple shoulder, neck and jaw is going to help the contact.

This does not mean forcing the head down or see sawing.

 

[palo1]

I have had it explained to me that if you take the horse's reins/contact and put it sort of where you want it to be and then, whilst remaining giving in the hand but not giving the rein or contact away, ride the hindquarters toward that contact and this can encourage a horse to soften into the hand nicely. I have had success with this too but only with a horse that was very open to the idea and quite liked that security! I have ridden other horses that prefer to 'find' the contact themselves which is where spiralling can be handy!! Many, many ways to do this I reckon

 

[Mule]

The beast makes me laugh. When he takes the contact he looks like a completely different horse. I'd even call him elegant. His mulish facial expression disappears

 

[BBP]

I’m perhaps being over sensitive. I never feel I can add anything to discussions in this section as I’m a fairly rubbish rider compared to most. But a lot of poor performance is because of rubbish riding, we just don’t say it out load. And little tips that can make all the difference to how rubbish riders like me ride. I don’t think anything I said negates the need to be straight and forward, but if your hands are bad you might struggle with both those things anyway. It’s all a beautiful, frustrating, complicated puzzle to me.

 

[Mule]

I’m perhaps being over sensitive. I never feel I can add anything to discussions in this section as I’m a fairly rubbish rider compared to most. But a lot of poor performance is because of rubbish riding, we just don’t say it out load. And little tips that can make all the difference to how rubbish riders like me ride. I don’t think anything I said negates the need to be straight and forward, but if your hands are bad you might struggle with both those things anyway. It’s all a beautiful, frustrating, complicated puzzle to me.

Discussing things is a big help. I've heard the hand holding analogy before but never understood what people meant by it until your post explained it.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I’m perhaps being over sensitive. I never feel I can add anything to discussions in this section as I’m a fairly rubbish rider compared to most. But a lot of poor performance is because of rubbish riding, we just don’t say it out load. And little tips that can make all the difference to how rubbish riders like me ride. I don’t think anything I said negates the need to be straight and forward, but if your hands are bad you might struggle with both those things anyway. It’s all a beautiful, frustrating, complicated puzzle to me.

I am so glad you said this!

I can't quote it now because Admin is super sensitive lately and I got into toruble the 1st time round! But I used to have in my sig a quote from a former regular poster (Littlelegs') previous employer, which basically said if the rider doesn't sit correctly, you can't expect the horse to work correctly and even if by chance it does, the rider won't recognise it.

I hate hearing about riders 'squeezing' reins to bring the horse 'onto the bit'!

 

[Tihamandturkey]

Madam responds best now when I "ask" with my seat and wait for her to come forward into my hands.

The feeling of a horse rising up underneath you and coming into self carriage is amazing and hard to describe.

We overcame a serious "giraffe" phase by me opening my hips pushing her on and allowing with my hands - at times dropping the inside rein altogether on bends - inside leg to outside hand was my mantra ?

 

[tristar]

I’m perhaps being over sensitive. I never feel I can add anything to discussions in this section as I’m a fairly rubbish rider compared to most. But a lot of poor performance is because of rubbish riding, we just don’t say it out load. And little tips that can make all the difference to how rubbish riders like me ride. I don’t think anything I said negates the need to be straight and forward, but if your hands are bad you might struggle with both those things anyway. It’s all a beautiful, frustrating, complicated puzzle to me.

so true, it is a puzzle

 

[oldie48]

Horse being "forward" has been mentioned in a number of posts but with some horses you can only get them properly forward when you have found out where they are blocking and in many horses it is most definitely in the neck, I think that's why the spiralling exercises work so well. So, with these I think you need to move/flex the neck before you put your leg on to ask them forward and into your contact.

 

[Mule]

I rode him today and focused on keeping my hands steady. He liked it too
I took a bit more weight in the reins and I was able to feel when he tried to sneak off with the rein. So I just put my legs on when that happened. I think I couldn't feel it happening because I hadn't enough of a hold on the reins.

It also helped that I was too lazy to put a saddle on because I could feel when his back was soft or stiff easier than normal. He must have put on weight since I last did it cus his backbone didn't feel as bad as I remember.

He did go hollow every now and again but I'm sure that will improve as I improve. I think the important thing is not to panic and fiddle when it does. I didn't do any lateral work as I wanted to just concentrate on what I was feeling in my hands.

 

[paddi22]

that sounds very positive!

 

[Mule]

that sounds very positive!

Yes, I'm happy with it It helped a lot to get advice. I'll keep practicing to try to learn and keep the feel.

 

[Mule]

I might well be back for more tips

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Horse being "forward" has been mentioned in a number of posts but with some horses you can only get them properly forward when you have found out where they are blocking and in many horses it is most definitely in the neck, I think that's why the spiralling exercises work so well. So, with these I think you need to move/flex the neck before you put your leg on to ask them forward and into your contact.

And very often the rider is causing the horse to 'stick' in the neck by blocking with either the hands or not engaging the rider's core properly.

 

[Mule]

And very often the rider is causing the horse to 'stick' in the neck by blocking with either the hands or not engaging the core properly.

It's complicated, I have a feeling I could spend my whole life trying to get it right.

 

[milliepops]

sounds great, mule. i think it's quite common that people try to have the horse too light in the hand at the start. you need to develop a kind of positive pull from the horse and sometimes that can be heavier, sometimes lighter. generally they become lighter as they get more established and can work in self carriage. i think to aim for lightness at the start, is where it can go wrong, because you really need *security* first and individual horses can take a firmer hold than others.

 

[Mule]

sounds great, mule. i think it's quite common that people try to have the horse too light in the hand at the start. you need to develop a kind of positive pull from the horse and sometimes that can be heavier, sometimes lighter. generally they become lighter as they get more established and can work in self carriage. i think to aim for lightness at the start, is where it can go wrong, because you really need *security* first and individual horses can take a firmer hold than others.

Interesting, I never knew that. I must remember the positive pull.