Buy it or train it?

Bernster

Bernster

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Whiling away the time before a work call. Would love to hear your stories and views on whether you've bought a made horse, or whether you ended up training and producing it yourself. Is this really achievable for a wobbly amateur rider?

I'm loving the journey with my boy, but I do have the occasional day dream about what life would be like if I had bought that established schoolmaster I meant to buy. Instead I bought a just turned 5yo gangly thing who didn't know where his legs were, who tripped over poles, couldn't turn right and who, first time I ventured out, launched off the lorry, knocked me over and trod on my ankle!

...Actually, that's making me feel better about how far we've come as really that was the worst of it! Sine then he's been a poppet to ride, despite my occasionally jangly jumping nerves.

I comfort myself with the thought that if I ever get to that dreamed of BE80, it's through a lot of my own sweat and tears. And those perfect schoolmasters often turn into hairy nightmares once they're in amateur hands!
 
I’ve had both, and they have been rewarding in different ways.
What I would say though is I’ve just gone onto a youngster having had a 3 year stint on a tricky but good schoolmistress and what I have taken from her and applied to this young horse is massive. I feel my understanding of where I want to go and what I need to achieve with the training is completely different to my previous youngsters.
 
Only ever trained my own :)

Like IHW though, each new one has been better than the last because of what I've learned from the more advanced ones. I would love to have been able to go out and get a horse that was ready to go this time round but realistically funds just don't allow... with a sub £1k budget the market is very limited.

It's one of the reasons I like having more than one on the go. The more established horse provides the carefree fun, and the one that is coming up behind needs a bit more gritting of teeth and working to improve day by day.

While I had Millie in work, she was so reliable and fun, she loved her work, she was just nice to ride - I know her inside out and I'd made my own schoolmistress up to Novice BE and Medium dressage. Then along came Kira and she had to start from the beginning with all the difficulties that a screwed up horse brings. If that was all I had to ride, I'd have been a bit miserable since it was a lot of hard work and mentally quite challenging.

Now Kira's the schooled horse - she's just getting better and better but the other day I thought to myself that I haven't ever had such a nicely trained horse to ride :o So proud of her and how she's adapted to her new life with me.
Salty is the baby... a bit screwed up and needing unpicking, and again, I'd be a bit fed up if she was my only ride.

So for me I think I've found the right way. I know I can't afford a nice horse, I have to make it... and I always need to have an eye to training a spare!
And there is *nothing* like looking at your lovely horse and knowing you taught it all yourself :)
 
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A subject very much on my mind at the moment!

I bought a gorgeous, but very green, mare on a bit of a whim last year, thinking that the learning journey together would be wonderful. I'm doubting that theory just now!

The problem is that I occasionally ride my YO's beautifully trained warmblood, and the difference between the two is like night and day. I feel my riding would improve no end if I had more time on the YO's horse, and that my mare would improve much quicker with a more confident/experienced rider.

Need to keep in mind how much my horse has come on so far... and that these improvements don't miraculously happen overnight!
 
I ended up in the middle - bought a 12 year old Connie X who is solid as a rock generally speaking but hadn't really done any refined training. As a first time horse owner I've brought him on from not being able to turn a circle in the school to competing at novice level dressage, I've steadied his jumping (for which he has a natural talent) and taught him to be more technical, I've taught him to load without being a twerp etc. I'm hugely proud of him and how far he's come - he's barely recognisable from the yellow belly on legs that arrived three years ago! What has made it easier is him being that bit older and more confident about most situations, plus he has a real desire to learn and do well. I lucked out really!

P.S We have just cracked medium trot thanks to your CDJ lesson video you posted in Millie's retrospective Milliepops! I'd spent so long trying to collect before asking, but he just didn't understand. We tried the road runner approach, launched into medium halfway round the school, penny dropped and now I have to stop him doing it all the time! :D
 
Bernster said:
Is this really achievable for a wobbly amateur rider?
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as for this bit ^^ yes it definitely IS... but no one should underestimate how difficult it can be. It's really hard training your first horse, especially. It gets easier with practice but I'd say most amateurs don't get to spend enough time on it to be able to lose the feeling of being a bit in over your head now and then ;)

I remember starting Millie jumping, I'd ridden a lot of young horses but none quite as wobbly as her. I had to build fences against the school wall and could only get over the jump on one rein :D she fell out on the left rein (so would scrabble over a jump) but fell in on the right rein (so would run past it!) :o
I had a jumping lesson where I was told to just gallop at the fences because then she would be going so fast she couldn't run out :o :eek3: needless to say we didn't go to THAT trainer again. A lot of blood, sweat and tears later, she was a super xc horse who locked onto fences and loved the job.

The other thing that is difficult for an amateur is having the time available. We're all juggling various things and to really progress at a pace I think horses need a lot of input. I've got a single track mind, I do my horses as my TOP priority - work and personal life has to fit in around them but not everyone can or would want to do that.
Kira feels like she's trained on SOOO fast as a result. but if she was in pro hands she's about on target - she'll be 4 years into training by the time she comes out at PSG. Sobering.
 
tatty_v said:
P.S We have just cracked medium trot thanks to your CDJ lesson video you posted in Millie's retrospective Milliepops! I'd spent so long trying to collect before asking, but he just didn't understand. We tried the road runner approach, launched into medium halfway round the school, penny dropped and now I have to stop him doing it all the time! :D
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haha! Pleased it helped someone :p def sometimes helps to take a different approach sometimes doesn't it? the textbook doesn't always work and now he's got the concept I bet you can go back to the "book way" and he will know what you want :)
 
milliepops said:
haha! Pleased it helped someone :p def sometimes helps to take a different approach sometimes doesn't it? the textbook doesn't always work and now he's got the concept I bet you can go back to the "book way" and he will know what you want :)
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Totally. I sensed he didn't understand what I was asking, but as a novice myself I stuck to the "10m circle just before the marker, across the long diagonal, steady and straight then ask" route - he just didn't understand and didn't have the space to have a go. Now the penny's dropped we can refine it and get it when I ask, which is awesome, so thank you! It's a great feeling when you crack something like that as a team, young or old!
 
Personally find it immensely rewarding to train. Basil had done no competing when I got him and getting him flying around BE90's within a matter of months was just awesome.

That said, Boggle has been a sodding nightmare and the only way I've managed to get through it is having the finances to be able to pay someone to help. I reckon I'm going to spend well over £2000 in help with riding/competing from a rider by the time I permanently take back the reins. But it's still incredibly rewarding especially given the state he arrived in.

Not sure I'd ever buy a ready made horse now, rather buy a youngster and employ a pro alongside if required.
 
At the moment I'm the same as MP, couldn't afford to buy a schoolmaster/ one bred for it, but also immensely enjoy the training :).

It does take work though, as in set amount of riding in all weathers, lessons and general bloody mindedness to do it ;).

Topaz was my first so has taken a little longer, 5 years to training the advanced work, I'm hoping Skylla will come through quicker as I'm not fixing her but just training her :).

Also find MP's vids super helpful, and wish more people would put them up of 'normal' horses and how to help their issues, as its so much more helpful!
 
Bernster said:
Is this really achievable for a wobbly amateur rider?
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Yes! It might take some time, but it's definitely possible. When I bought B, my confidence was at an all time low. He was a green 5yo but was just what I needed to get my mojo back, very happily just plodding about with me but teaching me a thing or two along the way.

As my confidence improved, I became more determined and ambitious. I did have some help along the way, not done it all totally by myself. We did our first flying change the other week, but that was all me (I've not tried it again yet just in case it was a fluke :D ). I was over the moon, so proud that I had managed to teach a flying change when not that long ago I could barely get correct canter leads! It's taken me almost 4 years to get to this point, but 2 of those years were spent getting over some major issues - so this is in no way a benchmark :D
 
AlexHyde said:
:lol: come on MP! ;)
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haha! I'm a bit limited because I'm almost always going places on my own :p Have got a few clips of Kira and I cocking up tempis at Adam's yesterday courtesy of Jiffy, but unfortunately none of her good work on the piris or half steps, boo!
 
Train it! I'm another one in the sub 1k bracket so you take what you can get. Its always been youngsters previously, but this time I ended up with an older horse who was established as a driving pony, but only the equivalent of happy hacking, and now we are learning about driving trials together. With driving its almost easier to do it this way as you build the relationship from the ground up. Taking over some one elses established horse would involved a bit of going backwards before you progressed. I have been very lucky and driven a couple of international trails horses and can honestly say I prefer my own to them :biggrin3:
 
milliepops said:
haha! I'm a bit limited because I'm almost always going places on my own :p Have got a few clips of Kira and I cocking up tempis at Adam's yesterday courtesy of Jiffy, but unfortunately none of her good work on the piris or half steps, boo!
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Cocked up tempi's are so relevant for me right now ;) just saying :lol:....
 
Ok I'm gonna stalk MP for her vids now.

I feel a smidge better about my glacial progress with F hah. And fortunately, on the odd occasion when I do look through sale websites, that unicorn event schoolmaster doesn't appear! Phew.
 
I'm definitely in the train it camp too, and again that has rather been the necessity for me, partly because of low budget to buy and partly because when I was young and from a non horsey family (so desperate for rides on anything) and nerves of steel I very quickly got pigeonholed as one of those riders who did the retraining and backing/schooling of youngsters, so that was pretty much all I knew.

I did have a few competition horses that I got to a reasonable standard competing (medium dressage, newcomers showjumping and scrambling around novice BE), but I always had to sell them to pay the bills. And then when I met my now 8 (rising 9)yo when he was 3 and fell head over heels for him I decided that there would be no more selling, this time I would have horses just for me. That horse has had a number of issues so his schooling is actually about 2-3 years behind where a 'normal' horse's should be. In some ways that can be frustrating, but in others it is quite nice as I have a sensible 9yo to hack, handle and take places, meaning that I really only have to put effort into the schooling side. With the average 4/5/6yo you are juggling so many different training objectives at once so it can get mighty tiring.

Having said that, my two youngsters (rising 4 and rising 3)are very straightforward to handle and manage so that does make life easier too.
 
I bought an 'established horse' - which after riding for over 20 years I (and the dealer!) thought I'd be grand with. She is the sweetest, most generous mare who is out to please but very, very sensitive. Although my riding wasn't terrible, it was my confidence that lacked in the partnership.

We had a few setbacks in the past year due to those confidence issues, and went into a downward spiral. We ended up not able to hack, I had broken bones, she would get upset every time I went to get on because we were both so wary of each other. We couldn't even walk round the fields at home without her having a meltdown and me ending up in a mess. Because of the reduced riding, her fitness / schooling level went a bit backwards so I've actually ended up with a 'green-ish' horse after all.

It's taken time, loads of support, and a complete attitude over haul from me... but we're on the road in the right direction. I think she's never felt truly happy in the new saddle I bought and had fitted when she first arrived, so I've even bought a second saddle. YO even commented on how 'happy' she's looking recently.

I *think* we're getting there....
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Ive bought one established, albeit she had issues, but knew her job.

The rest have either been young, unbroken, just broken or done nothing much apart from hack.
I enjoy training them, particularly taking 'nothing' horses (in the sense of no known breeding, no particular talents or any major presence) and turning them into something that no-one quite expected.
 
Train It!

Its funny this has come up today as i've been having a very reflective day looking at baby pictures of Ruby!

I've never had 'made' or even vaguely produced horses. My first horse was a yearling, naive to the fact that producing horses is much harder than hop on and off you go :D It turned out well though, with a lot of help along the way, I trained her to Novice dr, and jumped to 1m quite successfully but she didn't have the temperament or 'will' to do anything else and she's sold to a lovely hunting home.

When looking for my next horse I did have a bit more of a budget but not really enough for something good, the options were 1) out competing to a good level with quirks/ issues/ ailments/ older horse or 2) raw youngster. I knew I really didn't have the expertise to undo the problems some horses had even though it was appealing to have a horse that was already established so we had to start again from the bottom with the barely backed. . .

It is a slog, for the longest time you feel like you aren't getting anywhere but my biggest advice is surround yourself with people who want to help, listen to everything and commit to doing it well. You can't produce a well rounded horse halfheartedly, if you put the passion and enthusiasm in you will get it back 10 fold - it is possible as a 1 horse amateur! Like MP, my horse & training is my top priority, above work/ social/ sleep/ family - every spare penny is spent on lessons and I have very clear visions of what I want to achieve. I appreciate its not always just that simple for everyone but for now I don't have any dependents so making the most of it now :D

There are a lot of people on my yard with young horses and most of them say 'oh I wish XX, was as easy/ good/ far along (delete as appropriate blah blah blah) as Ruby is, you are so lucky' but these are the same people that don't ride in the rain, pick-up and put horses down depending on their social life, aren't consistent in their training etc - they don't see that I ride in all weathers, lunge in my PJ's at 5am before work, ride in the evening long after everyone has gone home, don't waste money in town drinking/ smoking and if my instructor can only fit me in at 7.30pm on a Friday, guess who's riding at 7.30pm!! This isn't me saying i'm better/ superior/ right in my way of doing things, but its definitely a case of you get out what you put in and don't make excuses!

This is my Instagram/ Facebook throwback Thursday contribution for today - It's great looking back and thinking 'wow, i managed to do that myself!'
top: Baby 4yo on the lunge
bottom: 6yo first Elementary
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LeannePip said:
It is a slog, for the longest time you feel like you aren't getting anywhere
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ain't that the truth. was just thinking that this morning. Feels like groundhog day sometimes, going over and over the same things, then all of a sudden - whoosh... you've made another big leap. Have to remind myself to just do one more repetition, one more day, cos maybe that's the one that gets you over the hump. (Salty is learning to leg yield... SLOWLY! :p)
 
That's lovely LP, what fab progress. Def a testament to all your hard work.

Jenni - interesting to read your post. Didn't you do a review not so long ago, I remember thinking what amazing fun you'd had and how well you'd done. I don't think I appreciated how many bumps you'd had along the way. So good to read that you're in a better place now.

I can't say I've done the 5.30am lunging (have got up earlier than that for hunting but that's different!), and I am a bit of a fair weather rider at times, but I do attack my training with gusto. I have weekly lessons, do loads of clinics etc., and have a ton of fantastic support. No kids, which helps, but do need to get some balance at times to keep the OH happy!

So, for me, it's more of a middle ground, and that explains the slower progress, but I am terrible for knocking myself. My ins commented the other day about how hard I've worked and how well me and F have done, so I should celebrate that a bit more too.
 
Bernster said:
That's lovely LP, what fab progress. Def a testament to all your hard work.

Jenni - interesting to read your post. Didn't you do a review not so long ago, I remember thinking what amazing fun you'd had and how well you'd done. I don't think I appreciated how many bumps you'd had along the way. So good to read that you're in a better place now.

I can't say I've done the 5.30am lunging (have got up earlier than that for hunting but that's different!), and I am a bit of a fair weather rider at times, but I do attack my training with gusto. I have weekly lessons, do loads of clinics etc., and have a ton of fantastic support. No kids, which helps, but do need to get some balance at times to keep the OH happy!

So, for me, it's more of a middle ground, and that explains the slower progress, but I am terrible for knocking myself. My ins commented the other day about how hard I've worked and how well me and F have done, so I should celebrate that a bit more too.
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The best thing about this place is (I think) the weekend plans thread, everyone is so honest about when it goes right and when it goes wrong - everyone has ups and downs and its never a straight line to your goal and its worth keeping that in mind when everything feels like its falling down around you.

If you haven't heard of her check out Olivia Towers on FB she does loads of vlogs and is really open about the ups and downs of training and speaks a lot about mindset. I'm trying this whole mindset positive attitude=positive results thing and the difference is starting to show. I do have a wobble now and again but I dont look at bad days as failures now just more pieces of a puzzle to work out and as a result don't acctually feel like we have 'bad days' now :)

Try not to compare your progress to others too, use it for inspiration if you want, but as with everything in life we have to tread our own way and there is no timescale on it, enjoy the training side rather than think, 'i'll enjoy it when we get to XX level' and be in a rush to get there.

milliepops said:
ain't that the truth. was just thinking that this morning. Feels like groundhog day sometimes, going over and over the same things, then all of a sudden - whoosh... you've made another big leap. Have to remind myself to just do one more repetition, one more day, cos maybe that's the one that gets you over the hump. (Salty is learning to leg yield... SLOWLY! :p)
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I hear ya! :D The hissy fits we had over a simple leg yield would rival a preschool of toddlers at nap time! :D :D
 
Wise words LP ! Thank you. Food for thought.

Part of my 'attacking training plan' now includes some sports coaching. Working on my mindset which I think, of all the things I do, needs the most work and has had the least attention. Am really hoping it can help me get over some of the mental blocks I have.
 
I've only ever made my own, too. My first pony, when I was 12, was my chunky, hairy cob (before they were fashionable!), who was kicked out of the RS for bad behaviour, and spent the first 6 months breaking the arena fencing and tanking me into hedges - I was told to man up and learn to ride it, or he'd have to be sold. I went for the former and was lucky enough to get away with it.

Since then, "my" horses have been Fergus - a once-sat-on-for-a-photo-rider-instantly-deposited-on-ground, 3 year old, Daemon who was a yearling, and Skye who had been backed and ridden for a couple of months when I got her, so comparatively well educated!

I like training, I like improving a horse and I prefer chipping away at stuff at home, by myself, to competing really. Thus I don't really want a schoolmaster, although it's always useful to have a home made, reliable one to loan to people / pony out from and have fun on.
 
LeannePip said:
I hear ya! :D The hissy fits we had over a simple leg yield would rival a preschool of toddlers at nap time! :D :D
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Shoulder in is a doddle but LY...NOPE! :D Maybe it's me... Kira was the same :p

Def look out for Olivia Towers on FB, I started following her after having a lesson last year... I can't bring myself to watch all her vlogs but the little snippets she posts like Wednesday Wisdom or whatever it's called really do ring true, if you can get over the schmaltz ;)

The other thing about setbacks is that usually you can find a positive somewhere, but it might take a day or 2 before you can think clearly rather than be emotional. If I have a rubbish show, there's usually something even if it's like - tricky horse loaded and travelled well... that's still a win! Might also be 'i rode the test really well even if the horse was off her game today' or 'i didn't allow myself to get distracted in the warm up' etc.
 
I am totally in the train it camp, only ever had unbroken, young or demented due to budget restrictions.

I grew up in London with non horsey parents, so rode friends ponies etc, then worked at a dealing yard, backing, producing and grooming show jumpers. I've bought my own horses as failures or foals and produced them myself, yes, its possible for a wobbly amateur to do it, but I often think they fail on two counts; one, they underestimate the work that needs to be done, and two, they dont stick at it enough, MP is right it has to be the main priority, and you have to be out there every day, not just on the good days. Please dont get me wrong, I know this doesnt apply to everyone, but when people fail it usually comes done to those two reasons.

There is nothing like the satisfaction of producing your horse yourself, and being able to look back and see how far you have come together, its worth everything.
 
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